John Oliver Interviews Edward Snowden

[Genx87]

Someone - anyone, tell us what losses America suffered because of Snowden. No vague shit. Be specific.

They will come back with

1.This compromised our ability to catch terrorists and keep murrica safe
a. Then never produce a single shred of evidence any of these programs have stopped any terrorist attack

 

[realibrad]

You know what I find fascinating? The fact that the second Snowden gets faced with *real* questions about his actions, motives, methods, he waffles and starts flubbing his lines.

WHY?

Because there is *far* more to this story than we are hearing.

There was an article on BI today that pretty much says this. His "handlers" (FSB) thought Oliver was yet another Brian Williams puff piece. It wasn't, their preparation sucked, and he fucked up, big time.

This whole "patriot" line is a sham.

You are stupid.

Had the FSB wanted, they would have watched the whole thing, and no way they would have let Oliver leave with the footage. Plus, the FSB does not care about the image of Snowden to the public.

 

[LegendKiller]

You are stupid.

Had the FSB wanted, they would have watched the whole thing, and no way they would have let Oliver leave with the footage. Plus, the FSB does not care about the image of Snowden to the public.

What is worse, what was shown or let Oliver report what happened and the fact that they confiscated the tape?

You cant put toothpaste back in the tube.

 

[BoberFett]

No, I believe something happened between his jobs where he *intentionally* sought out the job to steal classified information. He then dug for that information using means way beyond his pay grade and place in life. How?

I also then believe he f'd up his escape and tried to backtrack on his actions by using the media.

He was never a "whistleblower". His email to the NSA was NOT about his problems with spying.

I think that his move to Russia was not calculated but, instead, was a checkmate by his intelligence handler. Snowden tried to backtrack and his handlers held it over him. He tried to play the "patriot" role, but then that didn't work either because he turned over everything to people who didn't give a shit about sources & methods and classification.

I think he got in *WAY* over his head and was used, abused, fucked with a firehose without lube and now he's done.

He had no fucking clue how the world worked. He still has no clue.

That's quite a conspiracy theory. Any evidence?

 

[MongGrel]

He purloined documents and truly didn't know how much time he had until he was apprehended. So he did the best he could, under very difficult circumstances. Please note how long it has taken journalists going through the documents to release anything before you cavalierly say "he didn't feel like expending the [months long, years long?] effort."

He reviewed them as best he could under severe time pressure. As soon as he took the documents, he was a marked man and the clock was ticking. SO he gave them to journalists he trusted to do the right thing.

Perfect? No. But he ruined his life to do what he decided, on balance, was the right thing to do.

Given the exigencies, what would you have done?

This.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

That's quite a conspiracy theory. Any evidence?

I don't know about the rest of it the cloak and dagger stuff, but Snowden has flat out stated he sought out a position to take the info it granted him access to:

Edward Snowden secured a job with a US government contractor for one reason alone – to obtain evidence on Washington’s cyberspying networks, the South China Morning Post can reveal.

For the first time, Snowden has admitted he sought a position at Booz Allen Hamilton so he could collect proof about the US National Security Agency’s secret surveillance programmes ahead of planned leaks to the media. "My position with Booz Allen Hamilton granted me access to lists of machines all over the world the NSA hacked," he told the Post on June 12. "That is why I accepted that position about three months ago." ...

Asked if he specifically went to Booz Allen Hamilton to gather evidence of surveillance, he replied: "Correct on Booz." His intention was to collect information about the NSA hacking into "the whole world" and "not specifically Hong Kong and China".

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...n_job_specifically_to_gather_nsa_secrets.html

Like I said before, espionage-y, and specifically beyond the scope of domestic surveillance.

 

[LegendKiller]

That's quite a conspiracy theory. Any evidence?

The evidence is in the fact that he can't, or won't, account for his time, who he met, where he stayed, who he contacted, when he contacted them...etc.

It's hilarious you guys take everything he says at face value and fail to consider, even remotely, that you are being completely misled by a foreign power.

 

[MongGrel]

Then politicians shouldn't mind buckling on cameras to wear 24/7 so we can all see who THEY'RE talking to...

 

[realibrad]

What is worse, what was shown or let Oliver report what happened and the fact that they confiscated the tape?

You cant put toothpaste back in the tube.

Or, the FSB has someone "rob" the crew and the footage gets lost.

The FSB does not care about the image of Snowden. What they likely do care about is using him as a chip with relations to the US.

 

[realibrad]

The evidence is in the fact that he can't, or won't, account for his time, who he met, where he stayed, who he contacted, when he contacted them...etc.

It's hilarious you guys take everything he says at face value and fail to consider, even remotely, that you are being completely misled by a foreign power.

Hey genius, maybe its because it would put those people at risk with the US government.

Again, look at Lavabit.

 

[LegendKiller]

Or, the FSB has someone "rob" the crew and the footage gets lost.

The FSB does not care about the image of Snowden. What they likely do care about is using him as a chip with relations to the US.

The interview still pretty much exists, who are you going to believe, Oliver, or Snowden? Well...obviously you guys will believe Snowden no matter what.

 

[LegendKiller]

Hey genius, maybe its because it would put those people at risk with the US government.

Again, look at Lavabit.

Who is going to be at risk? Some Chinese national that housed him? Some Russian that contacted him?

He is being run and probably was being run prior to him "escaping". Face the facts, genius, you are being played.

So what about Lavabit? The guy's email system was used in the committing of a capital crime. He should release all info possible or be held as an accessory to that crime.

 

[BoberFett]

The evidence is in the fact that he can't, or won't, account for his time, who he met, where he stayed, who he contacted, when he contacted them...etc.

It's hilarious you guys take everything he says at face value and fail to consider, even remotely, that you are being completely misled by a foreign power.

It's hilarious that you believe the US government is more your side than any other government.

 

[LegendKiller]

It's hilarious that you believe the US government is more your side than any other government.

Depends on the government. Putin? Fuck no. You can see where that shit is going. There's a reason why the guy is worth multiples of Warren Buffet or Bill Gates and it isn't because he actually gives one iota of shits for his own people.

This government may not be perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than most country's governments.

I think Eddy is finding that out now.

 

[Subyman]

That's quite a conspiracy theory. Any evidence?

Yeah, I summed it up for him a few pages back. Would make for a great Robert Ludlum novel. Having proof the NSA spies on citizens isn't tin-foil-hat worthy enough for Legend, he needs some international intrigue and duplicity mixed in there as well.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yeah, I summed it up for him a few pages back. Would make for a great Robert Ludlum novel. Having proof the NSA spies on citizens isn't tin-foil-hat worthy enough for Legend, he needs some international intrigue and duplicity mixed in there as well.

I fully acknowledge that they spy and should have been caught.

However, the rest of it makes no sense. He didn't have to steal the rest of the info, if he had that much access, and time, he could have just accessed what he needed to. Why did he take the rest?

It is amazing that you guys think that having these gaping holes in his story is simply explained away as "meh".

As somebody who does research for a living and chases down shit like this, you cannot just overlook this.

You are way too linear.

 

[Subyman]

I fully acknowledge that they spy and should have been caught.

However, the rest of it makes no sense. He didn't have to steal the rest of the info, if he had that much access, and time, he could have just accessed what he needed to. Why did he take the rest?

It is amazing that you guys think that having these gaping holes in his story is simply explained away as "meh".

As somebody who does research for a living and chases down shit like this, you cannot just overlook this.

You are way too linear.

The problem is you are trying to fill holes in his story with a hollywood spy-thriller plot. I acknowledge there were missteps in his process of releasing this information. There are blanks in his timeline, because, you know, he was on the run. I just don't believe filling them in with Russian spy networks, him being an international super spy, or any other theories you are throwing around here.

Just because there are holes doesn't mean there's some anagnorisis twist in the story.

 

[WelshBloke]

It is amazing that you guys think that having these gaping holes in his story is simply explained away as "meh".

As somebody who does research for a living and chases down shit like this, you cannot just overlook this.

You are way too linear.

So when you're doing 'research for a living' you just look for gaps then make shit up to fit the gaps?

 

[LegendKiller]

So when you're doing 'research for a living' you just look for gaps then make shit up to fit the gaps?

It's called mosaic theory. In this case you can look at all of the gaps, and his refusal to answer them, and then when he does he flip flops all over the place, you begin to suspect the whole thing. You don't think that it's even a little suspicious that he completely comes off the rails? Not at all? Are you fucking kidding me?

This isn't the first time a supposed "patriot" turned traitor. History is littered with them. Money, hatred over an "inept" government (according to them), getting back at people, naive thoughts, are all reasons.

 

[WelshBloke]

It's called mosaic theory. In this case you can look at all of the gaps, and his refusal to answer them, and then when he does he flip flops all over the place, you begin to suspect the whole thing. You don't think that it's even a little suspicious that he completely comes off the rails? Not at all? Are you fucking kidding me?

Mosaic theory is looking for little bits of evidence and fitting them together into a bigger bit of evidence not looking at gaps and making a bigger gap then filling that up with whatever bullshit you like.

At least that's my understanding of it anyway.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

So when you're doing 'research for a living' you just look for gaps then make shit up to fit the gaps?

That's what you have to do when you're doing research. Like the scientists at Jurassic Park who were researching dinosaur DNA and used frog DNA to fill the gaps. What I'm saying is Edward Snowden has developed dinosaur cloning technology. It's the only sensible explanation for the holes in his story. How else do you explain him mysteriously disappearing from Hong Kong and turning up in Russia unless he rode a pterodactyl? WAKE UP SHEEPLE.

 

[LegendKiller]

The problem is you are trying to fill holes in his story with a hollywood spy-thriller plot. I acknowledge there were missteps in his process of releasing this information. There are blanks in his timeline, because, you know, he was on the run. I just don't believe filling them in with Russian spy networks, him being an international super spy, or any other theories you are throwing around here.

Just because there are holes doesn't mean there's some anagnorisis twist in the story.

No, I am offering a narrative that doesn't adhere to his carefully (or actually, carelessly) narrative. One that actually seems more reasonable to his present condition than him just bumbling along like a fucking moron. One that fits a bit better with him just getting completely derailed by a Premium Channel fake news reporter that just came off of the Daily Show.

The guy gets tossed one puff interview after another and the second somebody asks a mildly tough question he becomes a stammering, stuttering, conflicting, fucktard.

Now, why is that? This is supposedly somebody who knew what he was doing and suddenly he has no fucking clue.

It's almost like Obama losing his teleprompter.

Somewhere along the line he got caught up in the intelligence services. Where?

 

[Brainonska511]

That's what you have to do when you're doing research. Like the scientists at Jurassic Park who were researching dinosaur DNA and used frog DNA to fill the gaps. What I'm saying is Edward Snowden has developed dinosaur cloning technology. It's the only sensible explanation for the holes in his story. How else do you explain him mysteriously disappearing from Hong Kong and turning up in Russia unless he rode a pterodactyl? WAKE UP SHEEPLE.

You will be led to judgement like lambs to the slaughter--a simile whose existence, I might add, will not do your species any favors.

 

[Perknose]

As somebody who does research for a living and chases down shit like this, you cannot just overlook this.

What research do you do for a living?

 

[Jeff7]

Do you know about LavaBit? Before you start saying that the government would not go too far, you should look that up.

LavaBit was an encrypted email system that Snowden was using. The owner was told that if he did not turn over all his data, they would label him as a terrorist and take him out of the country. He then thought about just shutting down his service, and they told him that would also get him in trouble.

Afterwards, Levison wrote that after being contacted by the FBI, he was subpoenaed to appear in federal court, and was forced to appear without legal representation because it was served on such short notice; in addition, as a third party, he had no right to representation, and was not allowed to ask anyone who was not an attorney to help find him one. He also wrote that in addition to being denied a hearing about the warrant to obtain Lavabit's user information, he was held in contempt of court. The appellate court denied his appeal due to no objection, however, he wrote that because there had been no hearing, no objection could have been raised. His contempt of court charge was also upheld on the ground that it was not disputed; similarly, he was unable to dispute the charge because there had been no hearing to do it in. He also wrote that "the government argued that, since the 'inspection' of the data was to be carried out by a machine, it was exempt from the normal search-and-seizure protections of the Fourth Amendment

They were putting this guy through hell and all they wanted was meta data. Imagine what they were willing to do to get Snowden, and imagine what they would have been willing to do to punish him.

Rather scary, if legit.

The torture of prisoners captured in the Middle East, which parts of the US government oversaw and approved: If only we'd have used machines to torture people, then maybe it would have been exempt from any laws against that sort of thing.