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John Kerry's Military Records

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Originally posted by: bdjohnson
I am not defending kerry or bush, just offering a thought.

Why are military records relevant to a candidate's ability to lead our country? Why do we place so much importance in them?

That's a very fair question and it's quite debatable. Here's my opinion (as if it matters):

Normally, military records would not play such a role. However, in this campaign, both candidates touted their records. It's safe to say that both were foolish to do so. Bush touted his to counter Kerry's, but Kerry's are under suspicion due to how closely guarded portions of them are after he demanded Bush release his.

The records themselves wouldn't be such a centerpiece had the candidates, most notably Kerry, not used their service as a major campaign prop.

Now, in both Bush's and Kerry's specific cases, there are questionable events or periods of time. Bush allegedly had strings pulled for him and may have even been AWOL at one point, while Kerry allegedly was discharged with a less than Honorable status. If you ask me, all of these points are quite relevant to the presidency because they are relevant to each man's own character.

Unremarkable service records would be irrelevant, but as time goes on, we're seeing that neither of these candidates' records were unremarkable. They were quite remarkable, and not necessarily in a positive way.

That's how I feel about it.
 
Originally posted by: TBone77
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
You neocons crack me up! What is there to defend?

John Kerry is a war hero according to his own records released on HIS OWN website I gave you. Some of which if you bother reading at all, would clearly stipulate the high marks he got from his superiors.

Oh yes just to be fair heres Bush's military records on his website.
Bush national guard records



What they're not there? :Q Curiouser and curiouser....


Wow... did you just gloss over EVERYTHING that's been said?

John Kerry has NOT released all of his records. Not just by his own admission, but by the fact he hasn't filled out the appropriate documents to do so.

Newsflash: Just because JK posts it on his website, CERTAINLY doesn't make it so.

Lastly, calling us neocons for merely showing the same interest in his full military past as was shown in Bush's is quite telling of YOUR fanatical support. I recommend you tone down the labeling for now. There's a very valid point here being made, and you're refusing to acknowledge it. I've already acknowledged Bush's shoddy service. It sucked, flat-out. Now it's time we deal with Kerry's.

No one's saying he posted all his records...

Acknowledge that Kerry has not served honorably? What? The guy has won three purple hearts, a bronze star, and a silver star.

Yes I guess he has shoddy service, your right, he could have gotten more medals! Damn him and his lack of ambition!
 
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz

No one's saying he posted all his records...

Acknowledge that Kerry has not served honorably? What? The guy has won three purple hearts, a bronze star, and a silver star.

Yes I guess he has shoddy service, your right, he could have gotten more medals! Damn him and his lack of ambition!


John Kerry is a war hero according to his own records released on HIS OWN website

So you responded in a thread about Kerry not releasing all of his military records by posting a link to some of his military records?
 
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Originally posted by: TBone77
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
You neocons crack me up! What is there to defend?

John Kerry is a war hero according to his own records released on HIS OWN website I gave you. Some of which if you bother reading at all, would clearly stipulate the high marks he got from his superiors.

Oh yes just to be fair heres Bush's military records on his website.
Bush national guard records



What they're not there? :Q Curiouser and curiouser....


Wow... did you just gloss over EVERYTHING that's been said?

John Kerry has NOT released all of his records. Not just by his own admission, but by the fact he hasn't filled out the appropriate documents to do so.

Newsflash: Just because JK posts it on his website, CERTAINLY doesn't make it so.

Lastly, calling us neocons for merely showing the same interest in his full military past as was shown in Bush's is quite telling of YOUR fanatical support. I recommend you tone down the labeling for now. There's a very valid point here being made, and you're refusing to acknowledge it. I've already acknowledged Bush's shoddy service. It sucked, flat-out. Now it's time we deal with Kerry's.

No one's saying he posted all his records...

Acknowledge that Kerry has not served honorably? What? The guy has won three purple hearts, a bronze star, and a silver star.

Yes I guess he has shoddy service, your right, he could have gotten more medals! Damn him and his lack of ambition!


My Dad had a Purple Heart and a dozen other medals from the Vietnam War.

He never once saw enemy fire or even stepped foot on Asian soil.

My point? Just because Kerry has a wad of metal in his warchest doesn't mean he served honorably. I'm not necessarily saying he DIDN'T serve honorably (when I said 'it's time we deal with Kerry's', I meant his entire service; I did not mean to immediately imply it was 'shoddy'), but it would sure be nice to be able to make that distinction for myself, rather than having a Kerry drone - you or one of his own staff - force it down my throat.
 
Because it's worth repeating:

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz

No one's saying he posted all his records...

Acknowledge that Kerry has not served honorably? What? The guy has won three purple hearts, a bronze star, and a silver star.

Yes I guess he has shoddy service, your right, he could have gotten more medals! Damn him and his lack of ambition!


John Kerry is a war hero according to his own records released on HIS OWN website

So you responded in a thread about Kerry not releasing all of his military records by posting a link to some of his military records?

 
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz

No one's saying he posted all his records...

Acknowledge that Kerry has not served honorably? What? The guy has won three purple hearts, a bronze star, and a silver star.

Yes I guess he has shoddy service, your right, he could have gotten more medals! Damn him and his lack of ambition!


John Kerry is a war hero according to his own records released on HIS OWN website

So you responded in a thread about Kerry not releasing all of his military records by posting a link to some of his military records?

Well just keep in mind that CNS and Judicial watch are biased. 😉
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz

No one's saying he posted all his records...

Acknowledge that Kerry has not served honorably? What? The guy has won three purple hearts, a bronze star, and a silver star.

Yes I guess he has shoddy service, your right, he could have gotten more medals! Damn him and his lack of ambition!


John Kerry is a war hero according to his own records released on HIS OWN website

So you responded in a thread about Kerry not releasing all of his military records by posting a link to some of his military records?

Well just keep in mind that CNS and Judicial watch are biased. 😉


.... and Bush did coke 😉
 
Originally posted by: TBone77
Originally posted by: conjur
What is left to release?

His original discharge status, for starters.
You mean none of the mounds of documents released so far did not include discharge information? I find that incredibly dubious.

Originally posted by: conjur
Bush hasn't released all of his and none of it matters. It was 30+ years ago!
I recall reading somewhere that there is a form ("Standard 180" or something along those lines) that the Kerry campaign requested Bush to sign. This form allows for the full disclosure of one's military records. Bush has signed the form but Kerry has refused to. I wasn't sure if there had been a statement from their campaign explaining why he has refused to sign it.

The fact that it was 30 years ago is irrelevant. Both candidates' campaigns have deemed these events as quite relevant. The crux of the Kerry campaign was his service (even though it was "30+ years ago"), so it seems quite relevant in that context. Bush has touted his service in the Guard in his campaign, so it's relevant, too. Are you saying that it's not relevant that Bush had strings pulled for him in the military because it was "30+ years ago"? I think most Democrats would disagree (hell, I disagree... his service record bothers me).
Show me ONE link where the Kerry campaign demanded Bush sign the 180 (which, from what I understand, he hasn't even done himself.)

Also, if we're going to talk about 30+ years ago, Bush needs to release his sealed/purged cocaine arrest records.

While we're at it, how about Laura Bush's driving records from where she killed someone when she ran a stop sign.
 
Originally posted by: conjur
His original discharge status, for starters.
You mean none of the mounds of documents released so far did not include discharge information? I find that incredibly dubious.[/quote]

While I haven't thoroughly examined those "mounds" myself, the consensus appears to be that Kerry's original discharge status and many of his reviews are either not released, or not released in full.

Originally posted by: conjur
Also, if we're going to talk about 30+ years ago, Bush needs to release his sealed/purged cocaine arrest records.

While we're at it, how about Laura Bush's driving records from where she killed someone when she ran a stop sign.

I couldn't agree more.

But that's where some of you and I differ: I don't blindly support Bush and I'm realistic about his faults. Believe me, I'd much rather be re-electing John McCain. But, some of you display such a refusal to look objectively at Kerry that's it's difficult to carry a basic conversation with you because you won't acknowledge anything that shines a remotely negative light on your savior. If aliens landed and read your posts and defenses of John Kerry, they'd think you were talking about the Christ.
 
Originally posted by: bdjohnson
I am not defending kerry or bush, just offering a thought.

Why are military records relevant to a candidate's ability to lead our country? Why do we place so much importance in them?

We are electing a President. Like any other job - one has a resume. j.f.kerry put his war hero near the top(right under the line that said: "I'm not Bush") of his resume. Does the employer(Americans) not have a right to scrutinize what one puts on(or leaves off) their resume?

Now from what I've gathered - kerry's release papers had something about an ensign on them, there was supposedly a secret conference held during the carter admin that had something to do with kerry also. Until kerry releases his records- it's all just speculation and such but he could easily put it all to rest by signing the form.
Makes one wonder why he won't since he was a hero.

CsG
 
Originally posted by: conjur
What is left to release? He has tons of his military records available for viewing on his website.


Anyway, wtf is the difference? Bush hasn't released all of his and none of it matters. It was 30+ years ago!

You just dont get tired of telling lies do you?

Kerry has not signed a form 180 to release all military records and Bush has.
 
Kerry completed his obligations and was honorably discharged. There's no more to this story charrison.
 
Originally posted by: Gaard
Kerry completed his obligations and was honorably discharged. There's no more to this story charrison.

Then why doesn't he release his records? If what you say is true - then wouldn't this issue be put to rest?

CsG
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Gaard
Kerry completed his obligations and was honorably discharged. There's no more to this story charrison.

Then why doesn't he release his records? If what you say is true - then wouldn't this issue be put to rest?

CsG

Sorry CAD. I've been told before to use winks or something whenever I'm being sarcastic. Of course, Kerry should authorize the release of all his military papers. I've stated this in the past. ALL questions should be answered...he wants to be the President for Pete's sake.

I was simply being a little sarcastic towards charrison. No matter how many times "new" papers turn up, or questions arise, he (and others) repeatedly claim that there's nothing more to the story about Bush.
 
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Gaard
Kerry completed his obligations and was honorably discharged. There's no more to this story charrison.

The same could be said for Bush as well.

No sh!t Sherlock! YOU'VE said it!!

However, the left firmly attacked Bush's honorable discharge and this left Kerry open for the same kind of attack. The left only has itself to blame for this.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Gaard
Kerry completed his obligations and was honorably discharged. There's no more to this story charrison.

The same could be said for Bush as well.

No sh!t Sherlock! YOU'VE said it!!

However, the left firmly attacked Bush's honorable discharge and this left Kerry open for the same kind of attack. The left only has itself to blame for this.

Yeah whatever charrison. If it makes you feel better, I agree that Kerry should release all of his records and answer all questions concerning his service. I've always said so. I take a little pride in the fact that I'm not hypocritical concerning this. Can you say the same?
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: charrison

The difference is Kerry is a good man and a good Christian, so he doesn't deserve this.

I can say the same about Bush.


But you would be wrong. Bush delcared war on a country that had nothing to do with the US. Very unchristian. Thousands of people died. THousands of innocent children were effected. Bush forced a girl to have an abortion when he was young. Bush worships mammon-- a big no-no. On the other hand, Kerry is trying to make the world a better place. He doesn't deserve it.

Also, Kerry's a decorated war hero. Support the troops (i.e., John Kerry).
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: charrison

The difference is Kerry is a good man and a good Christian, so he doesn't deserve this.

I can say the same about Bush.


But you would be wrong. Bush delcared war on a country that had nothing to do with the US. Very unchristian.

I could argue it would have been unchristian to do nothing about iraq. And you would be on the losing side of that argument.


Thousands of people died. THousands of innocent children were effected.

Good description of what was happening before we went into iraq.


Bush forced a girl to have an abortion when he was young.

no facts to back this up


Bush worships mammon-- a big no-no.

huh?


On the other hand, Kerry is trying to make the world a better place. He doesn't deserve it.

Also, Kerry's a decorated war hero. Support the troops (i.e., John Kerry).

He also tossed his medals and did not support the troops when get got back from vietnam.

 
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