John Kerry's Involuntary Separation From Service?

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

WE DEMAND TO SEE BUSH'S DENTAL RECORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



This is too funny....sign the form, John Rambo.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: conjur
Swiftboat liar exposed:

http://news.globalfreepress.co...eSwiftBoatVetLiars.wmv



More on the swiftboat liars:

Larry Thurlow, one of the lying Swiftboat Veterans:
http://www.nationalreview.com/...k/york200407301059.asp

Thurlow says that Kerry's version of the events of March 13, 1969, is simply wrong. "His story is a total fabrication," Thurlow says. One of the Swift Boats did hit a mine that day, Thurlow says, but much of the rest of Kerry's story is inaccurate. "This thing about being under intense enemy fire is a falsehood...There was no fire off either bank [of the river]. This thing about getting Jim out of the river under a hail of bullets with these serious injuries is totally fabricated."

The lie exposed:
http://www.thehistorynet.com/a...yinvietnam/index3.html

Larry Thurlow received a bronze star for a fire fight he now says did not occur!



AND

George Elliott lying:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5694561/

HURLEY: This is from George Elliott, one of John Kerry?s commanders in Vietnam. This is the recommendation for the award of the Bronze Star. And he talks about a little bit in this.

Then he says: ?Shortly after starting their exit from this river, a mine detonated under one of the boats, PCF-3, lifting it two feet above the water and wounded everyone on board. Almost simultaneously, another mine detonated, close aboard PCF-94, knocking First Lieutenant Rassmann into the water and wounding Lieutenant J.G. Kerry in the right arm.? It goes on that PCF-4 provided cover fire, that they received sniper fire from the riverbanks. ?Lieutenant J.G. Kerry, from his exposed position on the bow of the boat, managed to pull Lieutenant Rassmann aboard despite the painful wound in his right arm.

?Meanwhile, PCF-94 gunners provided accurate suppressing fire.? It concludes by saying: ?Lieutenant J.G. Kerry proved himself to be calm, professional and highly courageous in the face of enemy fire.? That is signed by George Elliott, one of these same guys now who is saying, oh, but I remember it differently and I want to change my mind.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

What Elliott said in the ad is that Kerry "has not been honest about what happened in Viet Nam." In his original affidavit Elliott said Kerry had not been "forthright" in Vietnam. The only example he offered of Kerry not being "honest" or "forthright" was this: "For example, in connection with his Silver Star, I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back.

In the Globe story, Elliott is quoted as saying it was a "terrible mistake" to sign that statement:

George Elliott (Globe account): It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here. . . . I knew it was wrong . . . In a hurry I signed it and faxed it back. That was a mistake.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com...ish/article_4998.shtml

Another prominent figure in the anti-Kerry book as well as the ad denouncing Kerry, retired Lt. Commander George Elliott, recanted his statement last week in interviews with at least two news sources and then recounted his recant. Elliott also supported Kerry in his 1996 campaign and told a Boston audience that he felt the Senator "deserved the medals he won in Vietnam."

O?Neill further destroyed his credibility by appearing on CNN after assuring the network he had not spoke out publicly about Kerry this year. CNN later had to retract their claim of an ?exclusive? interview after they learned O?Neill appeared on C-Span to discuss Kerry in March.

Elliott Praises Kerry in 1969 Report

Elliott had a much different opinion of Kerry at the time than in the ad. In a fitness report on Kerry, dated Dec. 18, 1969, he stated that "in a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed...LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group."

Elliott also said he voted for Gore. I find that very hard to believe considering he's donated to the GOP. Elliott is a pathological liar. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.


AND

Hibbard has not revealed that he was Kerry's CO for only two weeks and never wrote a performance review for Kerry.


AND

Hoffman has been called a Kurtz-like psychopath.

Capt. Roy Hoffmann: "I told them you not only have authority," Hoffmann now says, "I damned well expect action. If there were men there and they didn?t kill them or capture them, you?d hear from me."

Also, Hoffman is a liar:
http://www.capitolhillblue.com...ish/article_4998.shtml

?They seek retribution by fabricating stories to destroy Kerry,? Brinkley says. ?Hoffman, in particular lacks credibility.?

On May 6, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporter Steve Schultze, interviewed Hoffman and wrote ?Hoffmann acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit Kerry's claims to valor and said that although Kerry was under his command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally.?

On August 5, however, Hoffman told Sean Hannity on his ABC radio show that "I knew him (Kerry) well, because I operated very closely with him and, uh, many of the operations, uh, most of the operations were-were conducted with multiple boats."

AND

Merrie Spaeth is the Communications Director for the Swiftboat Veterans group and is a staunch GOP supporter.


AND

Their website is funded by a Missouri Republican with close ties to John Ashcroft.


AND

http://www.newsmax.com/archive.../2004/5/4/132751.shtml

?It is our collective judgment that, upon your return from Vietnam, you grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen of that war (including a betrayal of many of us, without regard for the danger your actions caused us.) Further, we believe that you have withheld and/or distorted material facts as to your own conduct in this war.?

But it is with regard to the latter sentence of the charge that O?Neill and others get vague.

When asked by NewsMax if they had in mind any potential smoking gun of distortion that might be revealed by an unfettered examination of Kerry?s military records, there was no answer forthcoming.

AND

Who is Steve Gardner?
Swift Boat Vet "eyewitness" was not present for events leading to Kerry's medals or Purple Hearts
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408240001

Gardner admitted that "he was not on the boat with Kerry during the incidents for which Kerry got his medals," reported The Columbus Dispatch on August 6. And as a guest on Michael Savage's radio show, Savage Nation, on August 2, Gardner said that of Kerry's three Purple Hearts, he could only attest to the first; Gardner later admitted to Savage that he was "not on the boat with him [Kerry]" when that injury occurred...

...in at least two interviews, Gardner has falsely claimed that he was present for the incidents leading to Kerry's receipt of awards...

...In an apparent attempt to substantiate his status as an eyewitness to key Kerry events, Gardner claimed on Scarborough Country, "[T]hat boat never left the dock that I wasn't aboard it with John Kerry, never. I was with that boat everywhere we went." Gardner went on to make assertions regarding the events that occurred on March 13, 1969, involving Kerry's rescue of Jim Rassmann, for which Kerry received the Bronze Star. Gardner claimed to know that Kerry fled the scene on the river that day while the other three boats stayed and that Kerry then "turned around and came all the way back to pick up Mr. Rassmann that he had thrown off his boat when he took off, when he fled down the canal." But later in the show, Gardner admitted to not being present that day. When Scarborough attempted to revisit the "March 13, 1969 incident," Gardner said, "I'm not going to deal with that. Because I wasn't there."...

...On the August 2 broadcast of Savage Nation, Gardner himself claimed that all of the wounds for which Kerry received Purple Hearts "were superficial wounds, and I mean very superficial, scratches. The very first one is the only one that I can actually attest to because I was there when that wound happened." But Gardner was not there when Kerry sustained that wound; as noted above, Gardner went on to admit: "I was not on the boat with him but I -- in the next three days following that, I was with him on the boat going to take our new position up down there on the seaward operations."

And John O'Neill in his lie:

Swift Boat Writer Lied on Cambodia Claim
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._boats_1&printer=1

This is about Kerrys separation from the military...not the swiftboat issue

 

[conjur]

Same thing...all smears.

If any of these smears had merit, they'd have come to light 30+ years ago.

This is a non-issue.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Repost, this lie has already been tried by some other right wing nutjob, over and out.

No resolution means that it still lives!

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: conjur
Same thing...all smears.

If any of these smears had merit, they'd have come to light 30+ years ago.

This is a non-issue.

I see a theme here...

982 cuts to go in Kerry's death of a thousand cuts...

You-all really need to rent Bush's Brain or read the book, Rove has had years to set this up, & it ain't gonna be pretty...

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: conjur

If Kerry is going to sign the SF-180, then Bush needs to come clean with his cocaine abuse.

Actually we need apples & oranges icons for this one

:laugh:

Still spending millions trying to find white powder on Bush's nose. You would think finding nothing after all of these efforts would prove something.

 

[BBond]

I can't understand how anyone, especially veterans, can support Bush after his draft-dodging AWOL record in the Texas Air National Guard and attack Kerry, a decorated combat veteran.

People who do so reach the absolute height of hypocrisy and irresponsible partisanship.

John O'Neil was exposed as a liar back in the 1970s and he's been exposed as a liar today. A Republican shill, just like the people who post this garbage.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: BBond
I can't understand how anyone, especially veterans, can support Bush after his draft-dodging AWOL record in the Texas Air National Guard and attack Kerry, a decorated combat veteran.

People who do so reach the absolute height of hypocrisy and irresponsible partisanship.

John O'Neil was exposed as a liar back in the 1970s and he's been exposed as a liar today. A Republican shill, just like the people who post this garbage.

I think you have your Presidents confused.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Don't worry, If Kerry is elected he's probably only good for 4 months or so, then he'll be looking to jump ship.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: BBond
I can't understand how anyone, especially veterans, can support Bush after his draft-dodging AWOL record in the Texas Air National Guard and attack Kerry, a decorated combat veteran.

People who do so reach the absolute height of hypocrisy and irresponsible partisanship.

John O'Neil was exposed as a liar back in the 1970s and he's been exposed as a liar today. A Republican shill, just like the people who post this garbage.

I think you have your Presidents confused.

I think you have a confused president.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Don't worry, If Kerry is elected he's probably only good for 4 months or so, then he'll be looking to jump ship.

Don't worry, if Bush is elected he'll probably get drunk, snort some coke, and fail to show up at all.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Don't worry, If Kerry is elected he's probably only good for 4 months or so, then he'll be looking to jump ship.

Using that analogy, Bush would have jumped ship in 2000....before he was given office.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Don't worry, If Kerry is elected he's probably only good for 4 months or so, then he'll be looking to jump ship.

Using that analogy, Bush would have jumped ship in 2000....before he was given office.

He did jump ship. Cheney has been running everything since.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: BBond
I can't understand how anyone, especially veterans, can support Bush after his draft-dodging AWOL record in the Texas Air National Guard and attack Kerry, a decorated combat veteran.

People who do so reach the absolute height of hypocrisy and irresponsible partisanship.

John O'Neil was exposed as a liar back in the 1970s and he's been exposed as a liar today. A Republican shill, just like the people who post this garbage.

I think you have your Presidents confused.

Are you trying to say that Bush served in Vietnam and Kerry stayed home as the fortunate son? I know that even your doublethinking hypocracy doesn't stretch that far, John... or does it?

A Naval officer cannot receive a dishonorable discharge. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is lying. They can receive a dismissal, but only after a general court martial, and we all know that didn't happen to Kerry. If you choose to listen to and believe lies, that is your choice to do so, and it will be my choice to laugh at you for your choices.

 

[dnuggett]

I can't understand how anyone, especially veterans, can support Bush after his draft-dodging AWOL record in the Texas Air National Guard and attack Kerry, a decorated combat veteran

Lol, decorated combat veteran? :laugh:

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Vic


A Naval officer cannot receive a dishonorable discharge. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is lying. They can receive a dismissal, but only after a general court martial, and we all know that didn't happen to Kerry. If you choose to listen to and believe lies, that is your choice to do so, and it will be my choice to laugh at you for your choices.

One has to wonder why he won't sign a Form 180 & put it all to rest?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
WE DEMAND TO SEE BUSH'S DENTAL RECORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is too funny....sign the form, John Rambo.

The only existing record of his duty in Alabama. :laugh:

I wonder if the rest of the Alabama records were destroyed with the rest of the Texas and Colorado records??? :laugh:

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: dnuggett

I can't understand how anyone, especially veterans, can support Bush after his draft-dodging AWOL record in the Texas Air National Guard and attack Kerry, a decorated combat veteran

Lol, decorated combat veteran? :laugh:

According to the U.S. Navy. But I'm sure you have a better recollection than the men who were THERE.
:roll:

 

[DoubleL]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by: Vic


A Naval officer cannot receive a dishonorable discharge. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is lying. They can receive a dismissal, but only after a general court martial, and we all know that didn't happen to Kerry. If you choose to listen to and believe lies, that is your choice to do so, and it will be my choice to laugh at you for your choices.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One has to wonder why he won't sign a Form 180 & put it all to rest?


Do you really have to wonder

 

[BBond]

BTW, for those of you who apparently missed it, here a link to Nightline's eyewitness account along with an interesting account of 'some men' who showed up in Vietnam at the scene to ask some questions and try to influence history.

What Happened in Kerry's Vietnam Battles?

By ANDREW MORSE

Oct. 14, 2004 -- "In the controversy over Sen. John Kerry's service in Vietnam, Americans have heard from Kerry, from the crew of the Navy Swift boats he commanded and from other Swift boat veterans who question the official account of a 1969 incident for which Kerry was awarded a Silver Star. But there is one group they have not heard from: the Vietnamese who were there that day.

According to the military citation, Kerry was awarded the medal for his actions during an intense firefight on Feb. 28, 1969, during which he shot and killed a Viet Cong fighter who was armed with a rocket launcher. Members of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth group have charged that the Viet Cong fighter was a teenager who was alone, who was not part of a numerically superior force, and who was already wounded and running away when Kerry shot him.

"Nightline" traveled to Vietnam and found a number of witnesses who have never been heard from before, and who have no particular ax to grind for or against Kerry. Only one of them, in fact, even knew who Kerry is. The witnesses, all Vietnamese, are still living in the same villages where the fighting took place more than 35 years ago. A "Nightline" producer visited them and recorded their accounts of that day. The accounts were subsequently translated by a team of ABC News translators.

A Village Unchanged

Life along the Bay Hap River in southern Vietnam has changed very little in those years. The river is lined with small hamlets and isolated shacks reachable only by boat. They are surrounded by marshland, separated by winding canals, and concealed by thick walls of vegetation.

The canals lead to Tran Thoi village, the coordinates of which are publicly available in the U.S. military's after-action report on the 1969 battle. The Vietnamese government initially rejected "Nightline's" request to visit the village, saying it did not want to somehow influence the U.S. presidential election. Once "Nightline" explained that the intention was to simply find out what the Vietnamese people remember and think of what happened there, permission was granted.

On Feb. 28, 1969, a convoy of three American Swift boats came up the river under the command of Lt. John Kerry, arriving at the village of Tran Thoi. According to Kerry's medal citation, the boats "came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than 50 feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant [junior grade] Kerry ordered his boat to attack."

The Swift boats, which were transporting a group of the Americans' South Vietnamese allies, turned into the ambush and beached. According to the after-action report, the South Vietnamese troops stormed ashore, overwhelming the local insurgents."


That's the first page. There are three more. Go read them.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Vic


A Naval officer cannot receive a dishonorable discharge. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is lying. They can receive a dismissal, but only after a general court martial, and we all know that didn't happen to Kerry. If you choose to listen to and believe lies, that is your choice to do so, and it will be my choice to laugh at you for your choices.

One has to wonder why he won't sign a Form 180 & put it all to rest?

He ran as a war hero, yet won't release the records...and the neolibs want to give him a pass, which is more than funny...guess when they're gasping for air, they'll do anything, say anything, and turn the other cheek...next think you know, they'll be telling people in wheel chairs that they will walk again if John Kerry...ugh...wait....I think they are doing this now.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
One has to wonder why he won't sign a Form 180 & put it all to rest?

If you feel the need to wonder that, then you should also feel the need to wonder why George W. Bush took the fortunate son route and served in the National Guard, don't ya think?

Otherwise, you know what they say about those who live in glass houses....

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: BBond

That's the first page. There are three more. Go read them.

If you paid attention, I was the first one to post the link...

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
One has to wonder why he won't sign a Form 180 & put it all to rest?

If you feel the need to wonder that, then you should also feel the need to wonder why George W. Bush took the fortunate son route and served in the National Guard, don't ya think?

Otherwise, you know what they say about those who live in glass houses....

You are deflecting

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Vic

If you feel the need to wonder that, then you should also feel the need to wonder why George W. Bush took the fortunate son route and served in the National Guard, don't ya think?

*cough*Edwards?*cough* Kerry tried to go down the same path, but was denied...your point is what, Vic?