John Kerry weasels out of $500K in MA taxes

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nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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The boat is owned by a corporation.

Fern

So not only is he cheating MA out of it's $500,000, he's going to get to write off the whole $7 million cost ofthe boat as a "business expense"? This is why I dislike corporations and don't think they should have equal status as a human being.

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Why should a corporation be able to write off a toy like this??
 
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PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
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So not only is he cheating MA out of it's $500,000, he's going to write off the whole $7 milli9n the boat cost? This is why I dislike corporations and don't think they should have equal status as a human being.


Why should a corporation be able to write off a toy like this??

That's an even better question...

A quick search on Google has no results for "Great Point LLC", based in Pittsburgh, which is the registered owner of the boat. The same search also turns up the fact that people on the Huffington Post (wouldn't have found it otherwise) are saying it doesn't exist, and is just a way of holding assets.

If that were true, which I have no idea, it would be much more significant than just avoiding MA state taxes, akin to setting up a phony company in the Caymans to hold business assets.

TWIST

edit: The Pennsylvania Department of State has no record of Great Point LCC registered in Pittsburgh. There are a couple Great Point LLCs listed in different cities, with different people's names, but nothing close to Pittsburgh.
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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I explained what I wanted to backwards in error. From what I know if the money is brought back to the US, they have to pay tax. However if the money stays foreign and locked up in whatever country and never comes, they delay paying taxes(meaning they don't have to pay).

(Bear with me a moment) There are basically two systems of taxation (Edit: After reading the entirety of your post I see you're likely familiar with this):

1. A country will tax any income/profit earned within it's borders, or

2. A country will tax all income/profits of it's citizens (including their corporations, partnership etc) where ever earned (world-wide income).

Most countries, except the USA, do only number 1 (IIRC, Austrailia is the only real exception, even so it's not as onerous as the USA).

Now if the USA followed everyone else and taxed on #1 we wouldn't have near the problems we do now (I'm speaking of so-called 'loopholes'). So, the USA is a freakin 'tax pig'.

OK, with that as background, the repatriated earnings you are speaking of (bringing the money back to the US) is foreign earned income. So that US companies can better remain competitive with other companies (put on the same level for taxes, at least temporarily), they are allowed to defer tax on their foreign profits so it can be reinvested in the foreign business. But when they bring it back to the USA, the tax will then hit (they aren't using the money to build their business in the foreign country any longer). Other countries that don't necessarily tax foreign source income of their compnaies will do the same - foreign profits will only get taxed if they bring them home; so the USA is following along with everybody else here.

Check out below for the full details and click on each picture. Can you explain why 83 of the 100 biggest US corporations have foreign tax heavens?
http://www.bloomberg.com/insight/lexapro.html

Every Fortune 500 company does this from Microsoft, General Electric, Johnson and Johnson, Pfizer, and many others(especially tech and health care companies.
"Asset transfer pricing" and creating subsidiaries in Ireland, Bermuda, or Cayman Islands is nothing new.

Also, you missed a "possibly"(I'm saying possibly here because you're the accountant expert and not me) important fact.
American companies(and citizens) are taxed on their "worldwide" income.
That's not the case in many developed countries.

Does BP and Shell pay US taxes on income earned from oil wells in Africa, Europe, and Asia? Exxon on the other hand has to pay taxes on *all* oil wells worldwide since they're incorporated here unless they use the strategy above used by many US Fortune 500 corporations of delaying taxes(which they do) by not bringing the money home and leaving it at a subsidiary.

In this case, the Ireland division of Microsoft pays 35% tax on US sales and 12% Ireland tax everywhere else(Europe, Asia, etc...) vs. paying a 35% tax on "worldwide" sales.
Like the "Lexapro" example shown in the link above, if they went even further and created a Bermuda division, they only have to pay a 35% tax on US sales, and 0% everywhere else...Until they decide to bring the money back that is.

More information of how corporations delay having to pay taxes below:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a6qcwZCtO0_w
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=avJFFjW9I5Ag
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=axF8.RHSF9IM

Firstly, in these and other articles, as well as peoples' comments here, transfer pricing is said to be abused. So let me say a couple of things (1) I believe in every case for these large companies the IRS has examined the 'price' and agreed it is proper. I.e., it has been pre-approved by the IRS. The stakes are simply too high if a company sets the price too low/high and gets caught, so decades ago we worked out a process to obtain pre-approval from the IRS. (2) These large companies are under continuous IRS audit; the IRS agents have a permanent office in these companies are working there every day auditing them. People here, and Congresspersons seeking publicity would have us believe that these companies are 'running wild' without government/IRS supervision and that's simply not the case.

Now, also note that the US has about the highest corporate tax rates in the world; this is important.

And as you've noted we tax our companies on worldwide income; IMO this generates many of our problems and complexities in taxation.

Now, to avoid double taxation (companies taxed by the foreign country where the profits are earned and again in teh USA) we have created what is called the 'foreign tax credit'. So, if the foreign country has a tax rate of 20% the US will grant the company a credit against US taxes of 20% and then collect the remaining 15%.

Now what would happen if foreign countries increased their rate of tax to 35%; the same as ours? (Or we lowered our rate to match theirs)

The answer is that most of this tax BS would disappear because the US would not get any additional revenue from the companies' income/profit generated abroad; the foreign tax credit would equal the US tax leaving a balance of zero for Uncle Sam.

In short, our world-wide tax scheme and higher rates cause all this crap. And the IRS monitors this stuff non-stop for large corporations.

Now we do have serious problems with tax evasion. I've seen it, and I've turned people in. IMO, much of it caused by attorneys who know just enough to be dangerous. They get wealthy people into schemes that rely upon nothing other than 'hiding' transactions. I.e., once discovered their clients have zero chance of prevailing in court. IMO, that's flat out wrong, any good plan relies upon a decent change of winning in court and not merely making it hard for the IRS to find out what's going on. Pro Tip - when you hear 'foreign trust' run away as fast as you can.

Fern
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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Kerry says he docked the boat in RI temporarily for repairs, and that he is going to pay the Mass tax.

WEYMOUTH, Mass. — Sen. John Kerry says he is docking his family's new $7 million yacht in Rhode Island so it could have work done before moving it to Massachusetts to be available for charters.

The Massachusetts Democrat spoke to reporters Monday after an event at the former South Weymouth Air Station.

Kerry has come under fire in recent days for docking the 76-foot, New Zealand-built sloop in neighboring Rhode Island, saving roughly $500,000 in Bay State taxes.

If the "Isabel" were docked at the couple's summer vacation home on Nantucket, Kerry's family would be liable for $437,500 in one-time sales tax. They'd also have to pay $70,000 in annual excise taxes.

Kerry said his family will pay their taxes and it wasn't an issue.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38427773/ns/business/
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Kerry says he docked the boat in RI temporarily for repairs, and that he is going to pay the Mass tax.




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38427773/ns/business/

I already posted a link earlier where he was in violation docking boat in home state Nantucket prior to 6 months ownership tax law states.


And nobodyknows he can't write off Yacht unless a usual and customary cost of doing business. As in he ran a charted Yacht serive or something. Sailing to Washington will not fly on audit. (would not surprise me if friends rented his Yacht every so often and he tried though)
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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Is Kerry's wife(Teresa Heinz) considered a Massachusetts resident? I for some reason always had the impression that she was a Pennsylvania resident. I have no idea what PA vs MA tax systems are or which one has the overall higher rate/excise tax.

If indeed she is a PA resident, one has to wonder why his CPA didn't just have his wife buy the boat instead which would also have spared him from publicity. As long as she retains ownership, uses the boat once in a while and docks in RI, he can simply whisper to his wife "let me drive your car", err boat.
Obviously if she bought it under her name, then immediately transferred ownership to him, he would be caught red handed.

In many states, you don't have to pay tax on "used" vehicles given from family members...If you're worried about that, let the person retain ownership and add you to their insurance policy so you can drive it?
I have no idea what MA law is regarding family/spousal asset transfers.

And nobodyknows he can't write off Yacht unless a usual and customary cost of doing business. As in he ran a charted Yacht serive or something. Sailing to Washington will not fly on audit. (would not surprise me if friends rented his Yacht every so often and he tried though)

How does that work?
Are you saying GM, Ford, and Chrysler didn't write of their CEO private jets that they flew to Washington with to conduct their congressional interviews? I doubt that. GM, Ford, and Chrysler also didn't run a chartered Aircraft service last time I checked. :hmm:

You mean he can't just simply sail to Washington while conducting a party(err...meeting) with potential customers and write off part of the costs?
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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Man, Google does wonders.
http://www.google.com/search?q=tere...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a (1st link in search after typing teresa heinz resident in the search box.

The Boston Herald is keeping the heat on Senator Kerry about the half-million dollars in excise and in sales-and-use taxes he has dodged by mooring his yacht in Rhode Island, rather than in the state he represents in the Senate, Massachusetts. Today's Herald reports that the "clearly perturbed" senator "slammed the door" on reporters who were asking him about the matter — but only after cryptically responding to a question about whether he had brought the boat into Massachusetts by saying, "It depends on who owns it."

Earlier Herald coverage has reported that the boat is owned by a Pittsburgh, Pa.-based limited liability company, Great Point LLC, and that "Pittsburgh is home to Kerry's ketchup heiress wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry."
And indeed, a 2004 New York Times article on the partial release of Teresa Heinz Kerry's tax return in connection with Senator Kerry's presidential campaign reported, "The Kerrys file separate tax returns, a common arrangement when one spouse is wealthy...Her official place of residence was blacked out in federal tax return, but a spokesman for the Kerry campaign said it was in Pennsylvania."

If Great Point LLC is owned or controlled by Pennsylvania-based Teresa Heinz Kerry rather than by Massachusetts-based John Kerry, it may be that no Massachusetts use tax on the boat is owed.

And if you think mooring the yacht in Rhode Island rather than in Massachusetts is a tax dodge, the senator's spouse's decision to be a Pennsylvania resident rather than a Massachusetts one for tax purposes has its own advantages. The Massachusetts state income tax is 5.3%, while Pennsylvania's is 3.07%, according to the Tax Foundation. The Massachusetts estate tax is up to 16%, while the Pennsylvania inheritance tax maxes out at 4.5%. The lost income to Massachusetts as a result of Teresa Heinz Kerry's decision to be an official resident of Pennsylvania probably dwarfs the $500,000 or so at stake in the debate over where the yacht is moored.

As recently as March of this year, Senator Kerry issued a press release touting "new tools" for the IRS "to detect, deter and discourage offshore tax abuses that currently allow companies and individuals avoid paying taxes." He said, "It repulsed me that while the average American plays by the rules and pays taxes, some of the biggest corporations avoid paying their fair share." And he vowed to "close the loophole that allows for offshore tax havens to help taxpayers shirk paying their fair share."

I'm not defending offshore tax havens, but why shouldn't American individuals and businesses have the ability to do exactly what Senator Kerry and his wife do — organize their affairs within the law to minimize the amount of their money that they have to pay the government and maximize the amounts they can keep for themselves? Mr. Kerry finds it repulsive or unfair when other people do that, but apparently not so repulsive or unfair that he changes his own family's behavior on the matter, to the extent that it is within his control.
http://www.futureofcapitalism.com/2010/07/explaining-kerrys-yacht-tax-dodge

The question now is...Is "Great Point LLC" owned by Kerry himself, or his wife(Teresa Heinz)?
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
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It all makes sense now...

WEYMOUTH, Mass. — Sen. John Kerry says he is docking his family's new $7 million yacht in Rhode Island so it could have work done before moving it to Massachusetts to be available for charters.

but only after cryptically responding to a question about whether he had brought the boat into Massachusetts by saying, "It depends on who owns it."

Bought the boat in his wife's sham of a company (asset holding) in PA, and plans on using it for "charters", meaning they'll most likely be writing the whole thing off as a business expense.

I'd bet money that is what is going to happen, and I hope it isn't overlooked in the media.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
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The question now is...Is "Great Point LLC" owned by Kerry himself, or his wife(Teresa Heinz)?

As I posted earlier, there is no record of any Great Point, LCC out of Pittsburgh (which the registry states as the boat's owner), in the PA department of state database. There are several Great Point '...' LLCs, none registered to either of them.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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Good for him, though my cynicism makes me wonder if this is only because of all of the media attention.

Kerry is a smart man. You DO realize that he's not rich for nothing, right?
Him paying it off(whether he only did it to admit guilt or not) assures his re-election.

Corporations and businesses do this all the time.
Why spend thousands(or millions) in attorney fees if you could just give the person a few hundred dollars(or a company "gift card" which will still guarantee a sale to the company anyway) to go away?

This is exactly what happened in the Goldman case.
Why should Goldman Sachs spend millions defending their innocence in court against a sham charge from the SEC?

Put it this way:
1.) Goldman spends millions to prove it's innocence, and they win. However they don't their court costs refunded by the SEC. There is also an opportunity cost because they wasted time battling it out when they could focus on building their business and gaining market share.
2.) Spend hundreds of millions to prove it's innocence, and they lose. They still lose millions in court costs and still have to pay the $500 million SEC charge.
3.) Goldman pay 14 days worth of profits(~$500 million) to the SEC without admitting guilt, and focus on building their business immediately after the settlement?

Which would you choose?
Similarly, Kerry chose the right thing(Option 3). Whether he was actually guilty or innocent on the tax issue, that's the only common sense option for him to pick.
"The lost income to Massachusetts as a result of Teresa Heinz Kerry's decision to be an official resident of Pennsylvania probably dwarfs the $500,000 or so at stake in the debate over where the yacht is moored."

Pay the fine, let it die in the media after a week and move on.
 
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lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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As I posted earlier, there is no record of any Great Point, LCC out of Pittsburgh (which the registry states as the boat's owner), in the PA department of state database. There are several Great Point '...' LLCs, none registered to either of them.

avfmmq.png


Is "Glenside" in Pittsburgh, PA?
I know for a fact if I put XXX instead of YYY(where I actually live), my mail will still get delivered because YYY is a part of(or resides in) XXX.

Does one need to be a CEO, Chairman, or President to deduct corporate expense? The people 2-4 levels above me at my job get company paid cars(which I'm sure the corporation deducts from their own taxes as "business expense"). They are not CEOs, Chairman, or President either.
Maybe he's a member(or his wife is) of the board at Great Point, LLC?

Maybe he(or his wife) is the actual majority owner of Great Point, LLC but they appointed directors because they don't have time to manage day to day operations of the company?
I know some millionaires who do that. Heck, even Warren Buffett does that with every single company he acquires. You think Warren Buffett spends time managing day to day operations at MidAmerican Energy, NetJets, GEICO, Nebraska Furniture Mart, Sees Candy, Wesco Financial, General Re, Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp., etc...?

I'm not one of those people here to make excuses for Kerry(as you can see by all my posts so far in this thread).
My opinion is the same as it is for any individual, business, or corporation..."As long as it's not illegal, reduce your taxes by ALL means possible."
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
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Just heard on the news this morning that Kerry will be paying the tax plus an additional $70K a year for excise tax on that boat. As if he (actually his wife) couldn't afford it. But that's the thing about the filthy rich/ruling class, they think they are above the law no matter what party they belong too.
 
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PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
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Is "Glenside" in Pittsburgh, PA?
I know for a fact if I put XXX instead of YYY(where I actually live), my mail will still get delivered because YYY is a part of(or resides in) XXX.

From google maps, they are on opposite sides of the state.

Does one need to be a CEO, Chairman, or President to deduct corporate expense? The people 2-4 levels above me at my job get company paid cars(which I'm sure the corporation deducts from their own taxes as "business expense"). They are not CEOs, Chairman, or President either.
Maybe he's a member(or his wife is) of the board at Great Point, LLC?

Maybe he(or his wife) is the actual majority owner of Great Point, LLC but they appointed directors because they don't have time to manage day to day operations of the company?
I know some millionaires who do that. Heck, even Warren Buffett does that with every single company he acquires. You think Warren Buffett spends time managing day to day operations at MidAmerican Energy, NetJets, GEICO, Nebraska Furniture Mart, Sees Candy, Wesco Financial, General Re, Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp., etc...?

I'm not one of those people here to make excuses for Kerry(as you can see by all my posts so far in this thread).
My opinion is the same as it is for any individual, business, or corporation..."As long as it's not illegal, reduce your taxes by ALL means possible."

Hey, I'm not say I wouldn't do the same thing if I could. I try to minimize my taxes legally every year. Difference being, I don't get up every day and preach to the country how this person and that company aren't paying enough, are taking advantage of loopholes, aren't "paying their fair share", are stealing tax money from honest citizens, then go buy a $7 million boat for me and my wife and take advantage of my own set of tax loopholes to avoid paying what I normally would.

Kerry is a smart man. You DO realize that he's not rich for nothing, right?

Smart enough to marry a half-billion dollar wife :awe:
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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I already posted a link earlier where he was in violation docking boat in home state Nantucket prior to 6 months ownership tax law states.


And nobodyknows he can't write off Yacht unless a usual and customary cost of doing business. As in he ran a charted Yacht serive or something. Sailing to Washington will not fly on audit. (would not surprise me if friends rented his Yacht every so often and he tried though)

That is exactly how you do it. Hell, he can rent it to another one of his companies so that he can wine and dine "customers" on it and write off the rental as a business expense as well.

Not the smartest thing to do if your a Senator though especially after coming under this much fire already, so he will probably rent it to some buddies who "take him out on the boat" and said buddy will write off the rental as a business expense.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Is Kerry's wife(Teresa Heinz) considered a Massachusetts resident? I for some reason always had the impression that she was a Pennsylvania resident. I have no idea what PA vs MA tax systems are or which one has the overall higher rate/excise tax.

If indeed she is a PA resident, one has to wonder why his CPA didn't just have his wife buy the boat instead which would also have spared him from publicity. As long as she retains ownership, uses the boat once in a while and docks in RI, he can simply whisper to his wife "let me drive your car", err boat.
Obviously if she bought it under her name, then immediately transferred ownership to him, he would be caught red handed.

In many states, you don't have to pay tax on "used" vehicles given from family members...If you're worried about that, let the person retain ownership and add you to their insurance policy so you can drive it?
I have no idea what MA law is regarding family/spousal asset transfers.

Lol, rich fuckers don't "drive" their multi-million dollar yachts, they hire a crew (complete with Chef and butlers) to do all that crap for them.

As far as transfering ownership, they purchased it under a company for tax reasons so why would they want to transfer it to a person who doesn't get those tax benefits, especially a person so high profile as Kerry? They call it a "charter boat" (who knows, maybe they really think its an investment.... odd time in the economy to be purchase a $7M yacht to charter though) and just the depreciation alone is a huge tax benefit. I am sure the company does some sort of business with one of their other companies or buddies companies, they require tax liability in order to take advantage of the tax benefits.

Not all that uncommon, the guy I used to work for had one main business which he made 90%+ of his income from and at least 6 other LLCs. At least one of them was for reasons other than taxes (seperate the assets and liabilities of the two companies, if company B fails/gets its ass sued off/etc then company A is completely removed from the situation) but at least one was strictly for tax purposes.

I know another guy who owns a construction company and his wife owns an "equipment rental company". She "rents" the equipment exclusively to her husbands business. I am not familiar enough with tax law to know if it is for liability issues (one company gets sued or goes under then the assets of the other company are protected, basically not putting all of your eggs in one basket) or tax issues though.

His wife also drives a $100K Escalade that they custom ordered and has a $100K+ convertible "weekend car" that are both owned by the company and written off as business expenses.

How does that work?
Are you saying GM, Ford, and Chrysler didn't write of their CEO private jets that they flew to Washington with to conduct their congressional interviews? I doubt that. GM, Ford, and Chrysler also didn't run a chartered Aircraft service last time I checked. :hmm:

You mean he can't just simply sail to Washington while conducting a party(err...meeting) with potential customers and write off part of the costs?

Of course he can, or his buddy can rent it through his company and sail Kerry to Washington and the buddy can write off the entire trip. Maybe it would have to be his wife he was "doing business with" due to campaign finance laws or something? Not sure about that but it is real damned easy to write off just about every expense that boat will ever have regardless if it is really used for business or not.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,592
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As I posted earlier, there is no record of any Great Point, LCC out of Pittsburgh (which the registry states as the boat's owner), in the PA department of state database. There are several Great Point '...' LLCs, none registered to either of them.

Hmm ... maybe it is actually in a suburb of pittsburgh, but instead of saying "Great Point LLC of Upper Saint Clair, PA" they just use the more commonly known name of the greater metro area? Nah, couldn't be. Look! Black helicopters!!! :rolleyes:
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
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Hmm ... maybe it is actually in a suburb of pittsburgh, but instead of saying "Great Point LLC of Upper Saint Clair, PA" they just use the more commonly known name of the greater metro area? Nah, couldn't be. Look! Black helicopters!!! :rolleyes:

The closest registered LLC that comes anywhere near "Great Point LLC" is over 200 miles from Pittsburgh.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,681
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Looks to me to be a clear case of tax avoidance, which is legal, not tax evasion, which is illegal. Most states in the northeast charge personal property taxes on cars, boats and planes (and quite high too, I just paid mine). In my state at least where you live is irrelevant to the tax liability, the tax is imposed by the municipality where the property is principally garaged/hangered/docked. Lots of MA and CT owners dock their boats in RI and personal property tax rates are not an insignificant factor in making that decision.

As for owning the boat in a corporate or LLC form, there are plenty of valid legal reasons for doing so over and beyond any tax considerations. Most people I know who own planes own them under a corporation or LLC, and I suspect that most major boats are owned the same way.

In sum, Kerry's actions here are commonplace and normal. If the OP and others feel these actions are improper, then the laws should be changed and all taxpayers should be subject to the increased taxes, not just selected politicians. We should have a fair playing field.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
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In sum, Kerry's actions here are commonplace and normal. If the OP and others feel these actions are improper, then the laws should be changed and all taxpayers should be subject to the increased taxes, not just selected politicians. We should have a fair playing field.

That's just the thing... most of us don't think the action itself is improper, as in we would all probably do it ourselves if given the opportunity... the problem is that this is a very public figure who has spent a good deal of his career proselytizing against tax avoidance schemes used by others, and using his position to try to stop others from doing it. If he believes these other companies are "not paying their fair share" by avoiding taxes in legal ways, why wouldn't the same standard apply to him?

Just as in my earlier example... if I loudly proclaim that people who smoke cigarettes in bars are harming others, and it should be illegal, then I go light up a cigar in the corner booth, I obviously believe that the rules shouldn't apply to me.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
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I already posted a link earlier where he was in violation docking boat in home state Nantucket prior to 6 months ownership tax law states.


And nobodyknows he can't write off Yacht unless a usual and customary cost of doing business. As in he ran a charted Yacht serive or something. Sailing to Washington will not fly on audit. (would not surprise me if friends rented his Yacht every so often and he tried though)

Then why buy it through a corporation? I understand him limiting his liability that way and don't really agree with it, but that's another discussion. Still, I think all he has to do is take "clients" out and then he can write of all or part of it?
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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As I posted earlier, there is no record of any Great Point, LCC out of Pittsburgh (which the registry states as the boat's owner), in the PA department of state database. There are several Great Point '...' LLCs, none registered to either of them.

Most likely neither of them would be listed. Instead, normally there would be an 'agent' and that's usually the firm that handles the incorporation and makes the annual payments to the Sec of State etc.

The address of the agent could be anywhere in the state.

I'll google a bit.

Fern
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
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Lol, rich fuckers don't "drive" their multi-million dollar yachts, they hire a crew (complete with Chef and butlers) to do all that crap for them.

When I said "drive", I didn't mean "drive" literally. ;)

Hey, I'm not say I wouldn't do the same thing if I could. I try to minimize my taxes legally every year. Difference being, I don't get up every day and preach to the country how this person and that company aren't paying enough, are taking advantage of loopholes, aren't "paying their fair share", are stealing tax money from honest citizens, then go buy a $7 million boat for me and my wife and take advantage of my own set of tax loopholes to avoid paying what I normally would.

Maybe it's just me but...
I see nothing wrong with complaining that there is money left on the table, while taking advantage of it.
Those are 2 completely different issues entirely IMO and I separate them.
For other people though, I realize that may not be the case.

Warren Buffett complains about the US tax system that his secretary pays more of a percentage(28-31%...I think she only makes between 60-100k per year or so) of her salary in income tax, while he only pays 16% on his millions.
Do I consider him to be a hypocrite because he legally takes advantage of the tax scheme offered to him? Not really.

Similarly, Republicans complained about Obama's stimulus and re-investment act, but they took the free money after it passed. They'd be a moron not to. If they were truly against that, they could have left the free money on the table and stand on their principles.
Do I consider them to be a hypocrite because of that? Not really. Regardless of whether they took the stimulus or not, their citizens will still pay for it in the ass through federal taxes for the additional debt interest. So why not take it?