"John Kerry saved my life"

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
at least Bush never marched under a North Vietnamese flag like Mr. I got a splinter in my finger, give me my Purple Heart Kerry did.


"Number of soldiers that George Bush spat on- Zero. Number of soldiers that John Kerry spat on-Endless."

I see you are buying into the Muddle Minded Ultra Conservative Bullsh!t that they perfected against McCain during the 2000 Republican Presidential Campaign.

Kerry served his country with honor and faced enemy fire which resulted in him being wounded. What have you done besides cut your finger while opening up a package a kleenex to wipe yourself?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
at least Bush never marched under a North Vietnamese flag like Mr. I got a splinter in my finger, give me my Purple Heart Kerry did.


"Number of soldiers that George Bush spat on- Zero. Number of soldiers that John Kerry spat on-Endless."

I see you are buying into the Muddle Minded Ultra Conservative Bullsh!t that they perfected against McCain during the 2000 Republican Presidential Campaign.

Kerry served his country with honor and faced enemy fire which resulted in him being wounded. What have you done besides cut your finger while opening up a package a kleenex to wipe yourself?

Red, I've read a ton of you rposts and though I almost never agree with you I'll concede that almost always post thoughtful and insightful (from your perspective) arguments. How can you possibly believe that Kerry did all of that in 4 months of service? My father in law was in Korea for 2 years and did 2 tours in Viet Nam and lost a good chunk of his leg and didnt bring anything like that home.

Kerry's commandations came from political ties. For the life of me I can see it no ther way.

 

[NetGuySC]

Okay i cut my finger on a kleenex ... Where's my purple heart? Perhaps i can get one of purple hearts that Kerry threw away. Funny that he fought so hard to earn these purple hearts (walking wounded and all) that he would just throw them away at the steps of the capitol.


Honestly I do not have much problems with Kerry's war record, until I hear of Bush being demonized for joining the National Guard.

I would be perfectly happy if all democrats and republicans would just stick to the issues, instead of clouding the present day issues with a 35 year old fog of the vietnam war.

Both are honorable positions. and in my opinion both avoided fighting the best they could. Bush may have pulled strings to get into guard, and Kerry claimed minor injuries to catch a quick boat home.

It is just a shame that no one is talking about the now. Sure kerry and Bush made mistakes 30+ years ago but i am more interested in the decisions they made they last 10 years.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
at least Bush never marched under a North Vietnamese flag like Mr. I got a splinter in my finger, give me my Purple Heart Kerry did.


"Number of soldiers that George Bush spat on- Zero. Number of soldiers that John Kerry spat on-Endless."

I see you are buying into the Muddle Minded Ultra Conservative Bullsh!t that they perfected against McCain during the 2000 Republican Presidential Campaign.

Kerry served his country with honor and faced enemy fire which resulted in him being wounded. What have you done besides cut your finger while opening up a package a kleenex to wipe yourself?

Red, I've read a ton of you rposts and though I almost never agree with you I'll concede that almost always post thoughtful and insightful (from your perspective) arguments. How can you possibly believe that Kerry did all of that in 4 months of service? My father in law was in Korea for 2 years and did 2 tours in Viet Nam and lost a good chunk of his leg and didnt bring anything like that home.

Kerry's commandations came from political ties. For the life of me I can see it no ther way.

People have spent two full tours and never saw any action and then there were those who didn't make it a month before coming home in a casket. Time spent doesn't mean he didn't earn those medals. I guess to really understand what he might have gone through you'd have to ask those who served on those Light Boats . The only thing I really know about them is how they were portrayed in the movie "Apocolapse Now"

What I take umbrage with is people like NetGuySC who claim that Kerry aided the enemy i.e. North Vietnam. Odds are that he wasn't even born then so he has no possible idea of what it was like in America back then so he hasn't the slightest idea how devisive that war was nor would he understand that if it weren't for those like Kerry Protesting the War, many more American Soldiers definately would have been led to slaughter by the corrupt Nixon Administration.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
at least Bush never marched under a North Vietnamese flag like Mr. I got a splinter in my finger, give me my Purple Heart Kerry did.


"Number of soldiers that George Bush spat on- Zero. Number of soldiers that John Kerry spat on-Endless."

I see you are buying into the Muddle Minded Ultra Conservative Bullsh!t that they perfected against McCain during the 2000 Republican Presidential Campaign.

Kerry served his country with honor and faced enemy fire which resulted in him being wounded. What have you done besides cut your finger while opening up a package a kleenex to wipe yourself?

Red, I've read a ton of you rposts and though I almost never agree with you I'll concede that almost always post thoughtful and insightful (from your perspective) arguments. How can you possibly believe that Kerry did all of that in 4 months of service? My father in law was in Korea for 2 years and did 2 tours in Viet Nam and lost a good chunk of his leg and didnt bring anything like that home.

Kerry's commandations came from political ties. For the life of me I can see it no ther way.

People have spent two full tours and never saw any action and then there were those who didn't make it a month before coming home in a casket. Time spent doesn't mean he didn't earn those medals. I guess to really understand what he might have gone through you'd have to ask those who served on those Light Boats . The only thing I really know about them is how they were portrayed in the movie "Apocolapse Now"

What I take umbrage with is people like NetGuySC who claim that Kerry aided the enemy i.e. North Vietnam. Odds are that he wasn't even born then so he has no possible idea of what it was like in America back then so he hasn't the slightest idea how devisive that war was nor would he understand that if it weren't for those like Kerry Protesting the War, many more American Soldiers definately would have been led to slaughter by the corrupt Nixon Administration.

When i think of Nixon I think of the president who put an end to the democrats war.

I guess we all have our own truths.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
at least Bush never marched under a North Vietnamese flag like Mr. I got a splinter in my finger, give me my Purple Heart Kerry did.


"Number of soldiers that George Bush spat on- Zero. Number of soldiers that John Kerry spat on-Endless."

I see you are buying into the Muddle Minded Ultra Conservative Bullsh!t that they perfected against McCain during the 2000 Republican Presidential Campaign.

Kerry served his country with honor and faced enemy fire which resulted in him being wounded. What have you done besides cut your finger while opening up a package a kleenex to wipe yourself?

Red, I've read a ton of you rposts and though I almost never agree with you I'll concede that almost always post thoughtful and insightful (from your perspective) arguments. How can you possibly believe that Kerry did all of that in 4 months of service? My father in law was in Korea for 2 years and did 2 tours in Viet Nam and lost a good chunk of his leg and didnt bring anything like that home.

Kerry's commandations came from political ties. For the life of me I can see it no ther way.

People have spent two full tours and never saw any action and then there were those who didn't make it a month before coming home in a casket. Time spent doesn't mean he didn't earn those medals. I guess to really understand what he might have gone through you'd have to ask those who served on those Light Boats . The only thing I really know about them is how they were portrayed in the movie "Apocolapse Now"

What I take umbrage with is people like NetGuySC who claim that Kerry aided the enemy i.e. North Vietnam. Odds are that he wasn't even born then so he has no possible idea of what it was like in America back then so he hasn't the slightest idea how devisive that war was nor would he understand that if it weren't for those like Kerry Protesting the War, many more American Soldiers definately would have been led to slaughter by the corrupt Nixon Administration.

When i think of Nixon I think of the president who put an end to the democrats war.

I guess we all have our own truths.

Yeah right. He put an end to the war because the American Public was on the verge of revolt over his actions not only in Vietnam but in Cambodia and Laos. Of course he was just escalating the War that the corrupt Johnson Administration escalated themselves.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: nutxo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
at least Bush never marched under a North Vietnamese flag like Mr. I got a splinter in my finger, give me my Purple Heart Kerry did.


"Number of soldiers that George Bush spat on- Zero. Number of soldiers that John Kerry spat on-Endless."

I see you are buying into the Muddle Minded Ultra Conservative Bullsh!t that they perfected against McCain during the 2000 Republican Presidential Campaign.

Kerry served his country with honor and faced enemy fire which resulted in him being wounded. What have you done besides cut your finger while opening up a package a kleenex to wipe yourself?

Red, I've read a ton of you rposts and though I almost never agree with you I'll concede that almost always post thoughtful and insightful (from your perspective) arguments. How can you possibly believe that Kerry did all of that in 4 months of service? My father in law was in Korea for 2 years and did 2 tours in Viet Nam and lost a good chunk of his leg and didnt bring anything like that home.

Kerry's commandations came from political ties. For the life of me I can see it no ther way.

People have spent two full tours and never saw any action and then there were those who didn't make it a month before coming home in a casket. Time spent doesn't mean he didn't earn those medals. I guess to really understand what he might have gone through you'd have to ask those who served on those Light Boats . The only thing I really know about them is how they were portrayed in the movie "Apocolapse Now"

What I take umbrage with is people like NetGuySC who claim that Kerry aided the enemy i.e. North Vietnam. Odds are that he wasn't even born then so he has no possible idea of what it was like in America back then so he hasn't the slightest idea how devisive that war was nor would he understand that if it weren't for those like Kerry Protesting the War, many more American Soldiers definately would have been led to slaughter by the corrupt Nixon Administration.

When i think of Nixon I think of the president who put an end to the democrats war.

I guess we all have our own truths.

Yeah right. He put an end to the war because the American Public was on the verge of revolt over his actions not only in Vietnam but in Cambodia and Laos. Of course he was just escalating the War that the corrupt Johnson Administration escalated themselves.

I wasnt debating, I was actually saying something like " i agree to disagree " without trashing on anyone. Believe it or not there was actually a compliment hidden somewhere in one of my posts

 

[NetGuySC]

Red Dawn, were you ever in Vietnam?

It is true that I was born in 1968 and of course didn't experience it except looking thru the bottom of a milk bottle.

I can distort, mangle, take out of context both kerry's and Bush's war record. I just have a problem with people whom only want to lay claim to the generalities of kerry's record but wish to get to specifics with Bush's record.

ex.

Kerry is a war here with three Purple Hearts .. fine with me it is just when you get to the details of his history that discussions start that are better off left alone, and these same discussions may paint a not so pretty picture of Kerry

Bush served and recieved an honorable discharge from the National Guard, but people seem to state without merit that he was awol, that he joined to avoid vietnam etc

Fact is that they both served. I do not think it is right to defend Kerry because the 60's / vietnam war was such a trying time. but in the same breath demonize Bush for getting an honorable discharge from the Guard.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
Red Dawn, were you ever in Vietnam?

Luckily for me ny 18th Birthday came on the first year that the draft was abolished because my lottery # was in the single digits. If I were to have been drafted I would have gone even if I was totally against the war as going to Prison or going to Canada was not an option for me. Of course by then we were starting to wind down our involvement in that war so who knows if I would have been shipped off to Nam.

It is true that I was born in 1968 and of course didn't experience it except looking thru the bottom of a milk bottle.

I can distort, mangle, take out of context both kerry's and Bush's war record. I just have a problem with people whom only want to lay claim to the generalities of kerry's record but wish to get to specifics with Bush's record.

ex.

Kerry is a war here with three Purple Hearts .. fine with me it is just when you get to the details of his history that discussions start that are better off left alone, and these same discussions may paint a not so pretty picture of Kerry

Bush served and recieved an honorable discharge from the National Guard, but people seem to state without merit that he was awol, that he joined to avoid vietnam etc

Fact is that they both served. I do not think it is right to defend Kerry because the 60's / vietnam war was such a trying time. but in the same breath demonize Bush for getting an honorable discharge from the Guard.

Kerry needs no defense and if Bush fullfilled his duties in the National Guard he also should not need to be defended. I'm sure a lot of those drafted and had to go to Nam would have preffered to join the Guard instead and would have traded places with Bush in a heartbeat. There's no shame having a father who cares enough for you to use his position of power to keep you out of that fscked up war!

 

[NetGuySC]

Red Dawn, Why did you have to include "Kerry needs no defense and if Bush fulfilled his duties" ? Bush has an honorable discharge!!!!!!!

This BS is exactly what I am talking about. Why is it that you must try to distort tyhe facts with this unfounded accusation questioning the valdity of Bush's 30 year old honorable discharge from the National Guard of as possibly being false and then in the same breath insist that Kerry does not need to be held accountable or even questioned for his documented and factual actions of 30 years ago?


If Kerry fulfilled his duties as a Swift boat commander, then he should come up with the names of all the people he witnessed committing war atrocities. Why didn't he report these individuals? Should he be charged for not turning them in? Should he be charged with a crime? a war crime? If not, why shouldn't he? and why should he not be questioned about his actions then? Why is his Kerry's action in Vietnam not relevant and the unfounded accusation concerning the validity of Bush's Honorable discharge is relevant?.

Me thinks that if Bush needs a defense then Kerry better get one too. for they both made some questionable decisions 30+ years ago.

There is no shame in Kerry insisting on and quoting military requlation in order to force the military to give him at least two Purple Hearts for two seperate minor wounds that did not take him out of action whatsoever, and a third wound with Purple Heart awarded that had him disabled for a grand total of about two days. This one I can buy, but not within what i thought a Purple Heart was for in my opinion.

I am sure that every soildier that served in Vietnam must have routinely moninated themselves for Purple Hearts and forced the issue like Kerry did in order to be honored with Purple Hearts after receiving minor flesh wounds, just to get out of a fvcked up war.

I am sure there are many legitimate Purple Heart recipients who would have gladly traded places with Kerry for his three life altering, Ooops I mean Day altering Purple Heart wounds.

Like I said, either side can be argued. But I much rather that we, the media and the american people argue about the recent past of these two presidential candidates, instead of the late 60's and early 70's acxtions of both for there is no one over the age of 30 who hasn't done something in their past that they don't regret now.

 

[oLLie]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
Funny how the democrats that are here bolstering kerry's military record are probably the same people that supported the draft dodging Clinton.

Since when did military service become a priority to Democrats?????

it so kerry can use a whole war where tens of thousands died to promote himself, while they point the finger at bush for a few seconds of 911 video and be uberhypocrites.

also the fact that many other 911 families were not offended is somehow irrelevant,and the fact many 911 families and a new york firefighter liked them..but that must NEVER be mentioned!

Nobody seems to be replying to this point, so I thought I'd repeat it with a quote.

 

[sMiLeYz]

Originally posted by: oLLie

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
Funny how the democrats that are here bolstering kerry's military record are probably the same people that supported the draft dodging Clinton.

Since when did military service become a priority to Democrats?????

it so kerry can use a whole war where tens of thousands died to promote himself, while they point the finger at bush for a few seconds of 911 video and be uberhypocrites.

also the fact that many other 911 families were not offended is somehow irrelevant,and the fact many 911 families and a new york firefighter liked them..but that must NEVER be mentioned!

Nobody seems to be replying to this point, so I thought I'd repeat it with a quote.

The problem is... George W. Bush promised not to make 9/11 a political issue. Since when did John Kerry promise he won't use his heorics in vietnam a poltical issue?

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: chess9
Malucky:

Yes, I agree. As I've said before, I have lots of buddies who didn't get Bronze or Silver Stars after 2 tours in 'Nam. I'm talking Marines in the swamp and bush....

I'm not that impressed with Kerry's war record, but it IS a heck of a lot more impressive than Bush's.

-Robert

And Bush I and Dole both had a heck of a lot better records than Clinton's, and a fat lot of good it did them.

Heck, Dole not only got the Purple Heart, he still has the war injury to prove it! Anyway, if the Dems are going to play the war hero game, I like this guy. He's not running for President, but I do solemnly swear to vote for whoever he endorses.

 

[DoubleL]

NetGuySC that was a good post that I would only add one thing

am sure that every soildier that served in Vietnam must have routinely moninated themselves for Purple Hearts and forced the issue like Kerry did in order to be honored with Purple Hearts after receiving minor flesh wounds, just to get out of a fvcked up war.

In the military there is a chain of command You don't turn yourself in for a purple heart, Most the times your platoon leader is the one that goes to the Lt. and puts you in for one unless you are dead or shot so bad you leave and when you get back to base camp the Lt. will sign the paper and have the Capt. sign it or you can get a purple heart or star in the field, It is a MOR, Purple heart cluster, Means you were hurt more than once or inf. badge that goes through the channels, If you go to the Lt. and ask for a purple heart you better be shot or he might shot you, Now a Lt. Well like they say rank has it's, By the way why was Kerry turned down for a MOH and why doesn't he have a cluster, I mean he got three purple hearts why didn't he put in for the cluster with 3 hurts

 

[Oneness]

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
I have a real problem with Kerry protesting while marching under a North Vietnamese flag in Washington. But even without that he just does not strike me as Presidential. Edwards was Presidential but not Kerry

LOL. while i agree edwards seemed a bit more well spoken... Kerry is HEAPS more more presidential than Bush.

and that's really all that matters.