I'm wondering that myself? Heck, I'm even wondering why I even come to P&N anymore?? It seems like it used to have a lot more good news articles and opinions.
zephyrprime
Diamond Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 7,512
- 2
- 81
I remember hearing that famous new york times columnist (forget his name) relating how he was talking to an Indian CEO and that CEO was also of the opinion that the US wasn't prepared for a global economy.
Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: Pabster
Click here.
My opinion? Just more of the same old from Kerry. He continues the old SKY IS FALLING! philosophy that got him so far in 2004.
You can read the article for yourself (and form your own opinions), I'll just quote the very last part for your enjoyment:
'Kerry told reporters afterward he is focused on helping Democrats in the 2006 midterm elections rather than his own political future.'
And you opine that he is incorrect in what way?
1. Top technology companies. Check
2. Top educational institutions. Check
3. 4.9% unemployment rate. Check
4. Hardest workers. Check
5. Most productive workers. Check
6. Most Millionaires. Check
7. Strongest Military in the World. Check
Hmm...so we're unprepared to pwn the globe...yea...Kerry...he like...lost, remeber?
Originally posted by: Kalbi
Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: Pabster
Click here.
My opinion? Just more of the same old from Kerry. He continues the old SKY IS FALLING! philosophy that got him so far in 2004.
You can read the article for yourself (and form your own opinions), I'll just quote the very last part for your enjoyment:
'Kerry told reporters afterward he is focused on helping Democrats in the 2006 midterm elections rather than his own political future.'
And you opine that he is incorrect in what way?
1. Top technology companies. Check
2. Top educational institutions. Check
3. 4.9% unemployment rate. Check
4. Hardest workers. Check
5. Most productive workers. Check
6. Most Millionaires. Check
7. Strongest Military in the World. Check
Hmm...so we're unprepared to pwn the globe...yea...Kerry...he like...lost, remeber?
That explains all of those textile industries and many other factory jobs.......
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Kalbi
Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: Pabster
Click here.
My opinion? Just more of the same old from Kerry. He continues the old SKY IS FALLING! philosophy that got him so far in 2004.
You can read the article for yourself (and form your own opinions), I'll just quote the very last part for your enjoyment:
'Kerry told reporters afterward he is focused on helping Democrats in the 2006 midterm elections rather than his own political future.'
And you opine that he is incorrect in what way?
1. Top technology companies. Check
2. Top educational institutions. Check
3. 4.9% unemployment rate. Check
4. Hardest workers. Check
5. Most productive workers. Check
6. Most Millionaires. Check
7. Strongest Military in the World. Check
Hmm...so we're unprepared to pwn the globe...yea...Kerry...he like...lost, remeber?
That explains all of those textile industries and many other factory jobs.......
And that has anything to do with what? Hardest workers = Americans work the longest hours per year. Americans also has the highest producitivity rate. What does lowly textile and factory jobs being scarce in America have to do with anything? It just means we are too advanced for that sh1t work and we have 3rd world countries do it for us.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
Just more evidence that the Democrats "don't get it" and that they are worthless.
Rather than identifying the real cause of the nation's economic problems and their solutions, Kerry goes back to the old tried and true opiate of the American masses--education!
Do you have economic problems? Do you have problems in the area of international trade? Solution--more education!
What a joke. I'm not sure if it's an inability on the part of the Democrats to recognize the real problem or an unwillingness. I think it's the later. In contrast to throwing money at education and to training Americans for jobs that are unavailable to them at American middle class wages, it might be better to actually identify and advocate solutions to the real economic problem of global labor wage arbitrage.
But that would mean advocating an ethics of rational selfish interest and then advocating economic policies that reflect it. However, the Democrats are altruists. So, rather than advocating the end of illegal immigration, a dramatic reduction in legal immigration, the expulsion of all foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, and the enactment of tariffs and trade protectionism to combat foreign outsourcing and global labor wage arbitrage, the Democrats would rather feed Americans the opiate of the masses--calls for more and better education. It sure is easier to say that we need better education than it is to identify and address the real sources of our problems.
Rather than identifying the real cause of the nation's economic problems and their solutions, Kerry goes back to the old tried and true opiate of the American masses--education!
Do you have economic problems? Do you have problems in the area of international trade? Solution--more education!
What a joke. I'm not sure if it's an inability on the part of the Democrats to recognize the real problem or an unwillingness. I think it's the later. In contrast to throwing money at education and to training Americans for jobs that are unavailable to them at American middle class wages, it might be better to actually identify and advocate solutions to the real economic problem of global labor wage arbitrage.
But that would mean advocating an ethics of rational selfish interest and then advocating economic policies that reflect it. However, the Democrats are altruists. So, rather than advocating the end of illegal immigration, a dramatic reduction in legal immigration, the expulsion of all foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas, and the enactment of tariffs and trade protectionism to combat foreign outsourcing and global labor wage arbitrage, the Democrats would rather feed Americans the opiate of the masses--calls for more and better education. It sure is easier to say that we need better education than it is to identify and address the real sources of our problems.
Aside from the garbage No Child Left Behin Act, Dubya's education policy is quite along those lines. While he tends to screw up everything else, he does quite a bit there - so you may want to rethink it as a Democrat issue.
I'm sure little kids in sweatshops are in line with you there - just ask the Olsen twins!
And we're too advanced for it? We have over 30 million people living under the poverty line - we could use those jobs. Or how about the actual advanced jobs such as IT or building cars? I wouldn't be surprised if Ford or GM don't build a majority of their fleets that are sold in America outside of it.
That explains all of those textile industries and many other factory jobs.......
[/quote]
Yea, low paying jobs. I swear the left gets their panties all bunched up about low paying manufacturing jobs.
Find people willing to work for pennies a day and we'll bring them back. Otherwise, it makes more sense to shift the jobs offshore. Take a couple courses in global economics, it will expand your mind on how the world works.
Great post Strk.
"In 1979, Kerry resigned from the District Attorney's office to set up a private law firm with another former prosecutor. He also joined with a friend to open a small cookie and muffin shop in Boston's Quincy Market area. The partners named it "Kilvert & Forbes" after their mothers' maiden names. Kerry sold his interest in the business in 1988. (The store still exists today as "Maggie's Sweets." The current owners, Carol Troxell and Sara Youngelson, supplied 1,000 gift bags of "John Kerry Chocolate Chip Cookies"?made with Kerry's mother's original recipe?to the media walkthrough at the Democratic Convention.)"
He even unlike a certain other person who will remain nameless suceeded at it!
Nope the John Kerry we are refering to was very prepared to be President. You maybe thinking of George Bush!
Todd33
Diamond Member
- Oct 16, 2003
- 7,842
- 2
- 81
Ding ding, we have a winner. The quality of post from the "conservatives" around here is in the dump. How some great posts about how the country is doing so well with the GOP majority? There must be something to brag about other than attacking Kerry, or maybe a Clinton blowjob thread?
Yea, low paying jobs. I swear the left gets their panties all bunched up about low paying manufacturing jobs.
Find people willing to work for pennies a day and we'll bring them back. Otherwise, it makes more sense to shift the jobs offshore. Take a couple courses in global economics, it will expand your mind on how the world works.
Great post Strk.[/quote]
Yes, we have shifted large parts offshore. We also have over 30 million people in the United States living in poverty. I also expanded it further in a second post with examples of a jobs that aren't textile.
And "the left" gets their panties in a bunch? Other than a strong dislike for Dubya's policies, someone I hardly consider a conservative, you will find me quite far from the left. Nice assumption though.
Yes, we have shifted large parts offshore. We also have over 30 million people in the United States living in poverty. I also expanded it further in a second post with examples of a jobs that aren't textile.
And "the left" gets their panties in a bunch? Other than a strong dislike for Dubya's policies, someone I hardly consider a conservative, you will find me quite far from the left. Nice assumption though.[/quote]
I was replying to Kalbi... *sighs* better luck next time. I just thought I'd mention that I agreed with your post rather than post twice, but I guess that's just too confusing for some.
Oh, sorry about that. Between the several quotes and the common sarcasm (Not saying you, just in general about people
), it's tricky sometimes.Originally posted by: Strk
Oh, sorry about that. Between the several quotes and the common sarcasm (Not saying you, just in general about people
Keep up the good work. Regardless of your political affiliation, it appears you are one of the few that bring some intelligence to this board.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
You must be living in either cuckoo-cloud world where global labor wage arbitrage doesn't exist or you don't read the newspapers and are thus ignorant. I know it hasn't been in the news much lately since the MSM doesn't want to mention it nor do the politicians, but all of those issues that came to the surface and that were reported on during the election are still around.
But a huge amount of the work in the technology fields has gone overseas to where competent labor is less expensive.
That's true, but education is pretty worthless if there aren't any appropriate jobs (which make use of the education) for graduates. We already have a large oversupply of science Ph.D.'s, for example.
So, of the adult population that wants to work full time, only 4.9% are impoverished, I take it?
The unemployment number is a political number composed of massaged data. It fails to account for people who were so discouraged by the job market that they stopped looking, people who retired early involuntarily, and people who suffer significant underemployment (part-timers, people underemployed outside of the fields they trained for, etc.). The real number is probably closer to 15%.
Remember, a "job" is not a "job". There is such a thing as people who are "working poor". Also, impoverished people in third world countries have jobs too. The dubious unemployment numbers alone do not reflect the actual health of a nation's economy.
Are you sure? I"m not convinced either way. Don't the Japanese work pretty hard too?
Same. Why do you think American workers are the most productive? Also, how do you define productivity? Most effort per hour (which is really part of "hardest workers"), or do you refer to higher productivity as a result of having better equipment and techniques (better productivity through technology--or real productivity increase)? Are you sure that the Japanese aren't the most productive in the later regard?
But this could also be a sign of massive economic inequality and injustice, such as business owners being able to keep large profits as a result of having a huge oversupply of labor, allowing them to pay employees a smaller percentage of their contribution to their businesses' products/services.
Not for long. It's hard to maintain a strong military without the strong economy needed to support it. If the nation becomes a third world country, it will be difficult to maintain the world's best military. China, on the otherhand, which seems to have an understanding of the economics of international trade, could find itself with the world's most powerful military in a few decades.
Rather, we're setting ourselves up to get p'wned, literally. (Just what do you think the foreigners will buy with the dollars that constitute the trade deficit? They'll buy our assets--land and capital.)
I don't think Kerry would have been much better than Bush in these areas, but Bush is just awful and has earned the title of "Worst President in American History" for his having presided over the beginning of the nation's descent to third world status.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
Are Americans the hardest working because they have an amazing work ethic or are they the hardest working because you have to work harder today in America (than in other first world countries) in order to maintain a middle class standard of living?
Do Americans work the longest hours because they like to, or do they do it because many people cannot find solid middle class jobs and thus have to work two poverty wage jobs?
Do Americans work longer and harder because they are terrified of losing the jobs they have and being unable to replace them in a depressed job market?
"Check your premises."
Question dogma and bromides.
As far as the outsourcing of textile jobs go, presumably those were solid lower middle class jobs. If Americans are too advanced for those kinds of jobs...where are the new "advanced" (presumably knowledge-based jobs) that are going to replace them? Could you please point to them for us? Can you tell us what people should retrain and re-educate for? Oh, that's right, the computer programming jobs are now below us which is why they want to India.
The loss of manufacturing jobs wouldn't be so awful if wonderful new higher-value-added knowledge-based jobs sprung up to replace them, but it isn't happening. Rather, those knowledge-based jobs are getting outsourced or filled by foreigners on work visas (H-1B, L-1). Heck, even the construction jobs are becoming unavailable since illegal aliens are being hired for them.
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
Yea, low paying jobs. I swear the left gets their panties all bunched up about low paying manufacturing jobs.
Find people willing to work for pennies a day and we'll bring them back. Otherwise, it makes more sense to shift the jobs offshore. Take a couple courses in global economics, it will expand your mind on how the world works.
Great post Strk.[/quote]
We do have some serious problems that do need attention if we are to stay a global economic leader. Take my particular field in science/ pharma. We do have top universities, but they are educating a huge number of foreign students as well as domestic. When these graduates go to look for jobs many stay here and work in the science/engineering field. What you see in companies in this field is the workforce is highly unrepresentitive of the national population.
Meaning, workers breakdown as: largely Chinese & Indians, then American whites, then other foreigners (lots of Africans, Russians, Puerto Ricans, Europeans, other Asians.) Frankly, rare are American blacks, and v. rare are american latinos (non-PR.) For the most part I see more Nigerians than African-Americans.
Now this is all well and fine, I am happy people can come here and be successful and prosperous. It is troubling however to see so few of my countrymen entering into the hard sciences and engineering. Also, this means such companies are heavily reliant on visas to bring in foriegn workers to work the high-tech/ high-wage jobs because there is not a sufficient domestic labor of quality scientists and engineers.
My worry is however is how long is this situation sustainable? Once highly educated and experienced, these foriegn workers can move out of country to set-up rival businesses, or alternatively companies can just move to India/China as they get many of their workers there anyway, and will eventually save money doing it while still delivering quality products. Americans cannot just remain consumers without also contributing to the means of production and high-wage jobs that fuel it.
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
Also, its not just "sh!t work" jbs that are moving. Many of the manufacturing jobs are high skill and high-wage jobs, but they are unfairly competing with a chinese labor force that benefits from unfair trade practices such as severe currency devaluation (which makes products artificially cheap,) government subsidies or very low % loans or loans w/ no expectations of paybacks, not having to offer worker protections (OHSA to labor laws,) or other benefits.
Some American companies have sued and won against China in the WTO for unfair trade practices and product dumping. Remember China is still only a quasi-captialist country built on a communist/ state-regulated economy infrastructure. If we both have to play by the same rules American workers are much more competitive. If we just turn a blind-eye to the situation we will eventually lose all of our high-wage jobs. Is YOUR job really safe from either being sent to China or given to an illegal immigrant who is willing to do it for less?
Some American companies have sued and won against China in the WTO for unfair trade practices and product dumping. Remember China is still only a quasi-captialist country built on a communist/ state-regulated economy infrastructure. If we both have to play by the same rules American workers are much more competitive. If we just turn a blind-eye to the situation we will eventually lose all of our high-wage jobs. Is YOUR job really safe from either being sent to China or given to an illegal immigrant who is willing to do it for less?
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