Joe's Crab Shack - No Tipping?!?!

[Ns1]

Hahahahahahahaha. Case in point. "I HAD TO MEMORIZE STUFF BRO. YOU DONT EVEN KNOW"

 

[umbrella39]

🙄

 

[MrSquished]

This is 100% true, which is why fine dining doesn't exist outside of the united states. If only places like Japan and France had tipping, they would have "real" fine dining restaurants with quality food and quality service.

ummm there are more Michelin starred restaurants in Japan than in the US. Ditto for France.

you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. like zero.

source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Michelin_starred_restaurants#By_country

 

[MrSquished]

Bad examples. Universal healthcare and other social services in those countries allow people to do this work for less actual pay while still having the safety net in place. If they push service into a $15 a hour position for someone with 10 years of experience you can expect those people to leave that industry. These are not dumb people.

see my post above. guy has no idea what he is talking about

 

[Ns1]

ummm there are more Michelin starred restaurants in Japan than in the US. Ditto for France.

you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. like zero.

source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Michelin_starred_restaurants#By_country

What's the tipping policy in Japan again? And France?

 

[turtile]

This just looks like a way to pocket even more money by the business. When it's busy, servers make way more than even $15 an hour. When I had a few serving shifts over the summer, making $30+ an hour wasn't uncommon. I cooked too and kitchen gets screwed because they don't make tips. The place starts cooks at $11/hr for harder work and anyone can walk in the FOH and make more than that.

At least in my area, all of the talented servers will try to leave the industry if tipping is eliminated.

I love how people think the industry is so easy. I've worked in various jobs and I can say that restaurant work is one of the most stressful. 13 hour shifts, no breaks all day long when it's busy... Cooking 20 meals to temperature at the same time, 20-30 seconds later that tuna is over cooked or if you forgot about that steak that was Med Rare and timed with the rest of the meal, done!

And make one mistake when serving and you've just ruined the entire tables meal. Ever have a table that can't make up their mind and wasted 5 minutes of your time while you need to take care of 5 other tables, get the food there before it's cold..

 

[ponyo]

if you believe this you must

• go to balling places on a daily basis OR
• not go to very high end places OR
• don't drink alcohol OR
• some combination of the above

I don't really drink alcohol when I dine out. Wine and alcohol subsidizes the food price at many of the finer restaurants.

 

[MrSquished]

What's the tipping policy in Japan again? And France?

I have no idea. According to your statement they don't have any tipping.


Regardless, your statement said one thing that was totally false and the facts prove that. You can't get much more fine dining than Michelin stars and the two countries you SPECIFICALLY pointed out as lacking in fine dining, are the two leaders, by far, in Michelin starred/fine dining establishments.

 

[Ns1]

I don't really drink alcohol when I dine out. Wine and alcohol subsidizes the food price at many of the finer restaurants.

While I agree with you were still talking about $200-400pp for fine dining here.

 

[Ns1]

I have no idea. Keep trying to deflect.

Regardless, your statement said one thing that was totally false and the facts prove that. You can't get much more fine dining than Michelin stars and the two countries you SPECIFICALLY pointed out as lacking in find dining, are the two leaders, by far, in Michelin starred/fine dining establishments.

The answer is there is no tipping in Japan and France and your sarcasm meter is broken.

I guess the only thing that's preventing US from being a fine dining powerhouse like Japan and France is our antiquated tipping culture leading to entitled ass servers who think they're better than their counterparts in Japan and France when really they're not.

:mic drop: I'm out

//edit

Actually your sarcasm meter probably isn't broken, rather the original comment probably went right over your head because you didn't realize Japan and France has a way better fine dining culture with no tipping culture.

 

[SunnyD]

restaurant owners have for years tried to find ways to take tips from foh employees. They are finally doing it and pocketing more money for themselves while paying people less.

Being a server in a decent place was a middle class job. One of the few middle class low edu jobs left in this country. They will be gone in 10 years.

Joe's Crab Shack is decidedly not a decent place nor a middle class job.

Waiting tables at most places is good enough for a part time high school jobber looking to save up enough scratch for his first beater, not someone trying to pay their mortgage. There's absolutely no reason for this to be more than a barely-above-minimum wage job, and minimum wage as it is is too high.*

(*Or not high enough since every bump in minimum wage has a knock-on push to inflation rendering every bump to minimum wage moot causing the low end to bitch that they still don't make enough and the once thriving middle class to become the new poverty level because their wages never get a corresponding bump when minimum wage gets pushed up in the first place.)

 

[MrSquished]

there is tipping in france. 15% built into the bill. that's a lot of moolah at a high end restaurant:

http://gofrance.about.com/od/travelplanning/a/tippinginfrance.htm

 

[Ns1]

A service charge is not the same as tipping. Since I'm so uneducated I'll let you tell me the difference in the states.

 

[JSt0rm]

No they won't be cooks because they aren't dumb. They will leave the industry. Good luck finding good servers for your $400 per person restaurant. Do you know what happens at understaffed restaurants?
----
Once again you're totally right. I've been to fine dining restaurants in Japan and France and the servers are all awful - claim jumper status.

The tipping model is the only model that delivers quality servers. Sorry I was mistaken.


And by that I meat the tipping model creates an entitled whiny ass force of servers and having a fairly paid crew where everyone feels valued including BOH is a way better model

Let me repeat for emphasis - entitled, whiny ass servers. "OMG I had to memorize an order and give a guy water. Obv I deserve $23/hr while Jose in the back in that hundred degree kitchen totally deserves only $15/hr"

I already countered your claim. In those countries working in the service industry has all the benefits of working in other industries because those countries have large social nets. You can raise a family in france working at a restaurant. You cant do that here because for 1 you are paid 2.13 a hour and 2 you dont get health insurance in most situations.

The tipping model creates incentive to do well. Not only for the customer but also for the restaurant.

Maybe the server paid a normal wage will feel less inclined to offer another glass of wine?

Maybe they will feel less incentive to sell you the grand marnier 35 year old instead of the regular.

Maybe they dont care if you drink a 10 year old tawny instead of a great 20 year old tawny.

Maybe they dont care that you get a bitter green to go with that ribeye you ordered, even though it makes the ribeye better and makes the check larger it no longer matters to them.

So whatever. I worked in that industry for 15 years. Its really your problem that you dont appreciate the service you get.

 

[JSt0rm]

Joe's Crab Shack is decidedly not a decent place nor a middle class job.

Waiting tables at most places is good enough for a part time high school jobber looking to save up enough scratch for his first beater, not someone trying to pay their mortgage. There's absolutely no reason for this to be more than a barely-above-minimum wage job, and minimum wage as it is is too high.*

(*Or not high enough since every bump in minimum wage has a knock-on push to inflation rendering every bump to minimum wage moot causing the low end to bitch that they still don't make enough and the once thriving middle class to become the new poverty level because their wages never get a corresponding bump when minimum wage gets pushed up in the first place.)

You would be surprised. I worked at tgif in the late 90's as my first real gig aside from bussing tables and washing dishes when I was 15-18. I was a food runner for a year and pulled in $100 a night easy and sometimes more.

When I became a waiter it took a bit of time to get good at it but then I was pulling in $200 a night. Sometimes a lot more. I then moved to a local fine dining restaurant and worked lunches only while I built up my skillset working with higher end foods. I then worked there for a good amount of time before moving. I had the highest sales in the restaurant and never had any service complaints. I would regularly make $400 to $600 every friday/saturday night.

I then moved to washington, dc and worked in a world class steak house - because as someone so astutely pointed out you can make a lot of money selling slabs of beef. I served princes, diplomats, us senators, lobbyists, rock stars. I served the lord Satan Cheney, hillary clinton and Obama when he was a senator. I worked with $2000 bottles of wine and bottles of wine that are so rare the waiting lists are over 10 years to get 3 bottles. I was the lead server in 300 person buyouts of the restaurant in the closest commercial building to the capital.

I had full medical, dental, optical and 2 weeks vacation every year. I worked monday thru friday 4pm to 11pm.

I stayed with this as a career for a couple of reasons.

1. shorter hours so I could focus on my real passion.

2. I enjoy food and food culture. Wine, whisky and craft beers. The knowledge I have about food at this point (spelling aside) is not something you come across in daily life.

3. And I enjoyed serving people. I enjoyed making people happy. (this skill set has stayed with me into my next career)

The reason Im listing all of this is to show how a poor 15 year old who is hungry and didn't even finish high school can climb out of his shit socio-economic background and carve out a little existence for him/herself. I was literally buying food for my mom and little brother with my busboy earnings.

It would be a shame to remove this "net" from lower class people to be able to get ahead if they are willing to work hard and put the time in and have the right skills.

You know the Buddhists believe we spend one of our last lives in the service of others. You all should try it, you dont even have to work in a restaurant.

 

[SunnyD]

You would be surprised. I worked at tgif in the late 90's as my first real gig aside from bussing tables and washing dishes when I was 15-18. I was a food runner for a year and pulled in $100 a night easy and sometimes more.

When I became a waiter it took a bit of time to get good at it but then I was pulling in $200 a night. Sometimes a lot more. I then moved to a local fine dining restaurant and worked lunches only while I built up my skillset working with higher end foods. I then worked there for a good amount of time before moving. I had the highest sales in the restaurant and never had any service complaints. I would regularly make $400 to $600 every friday/saturday night.

I then moved to washington, dc and worked in a world class steak house - because as someone so astutely pointed out you can make a lot of money selling slabs of beef. I served princes, diplomats, us senators, lobbyists, rock stars. I served the lord Satan Cheney, hillary clinton and Obama when he was a senator. I worked with $2000 bottles of wine and bottles of wine that are so rare the waiting lists are over 10 years to get 3 bottles. I was the lead server in 300 person buyouts of the restaurant in the closest commercial building to the capital.

I had full medical, dental, optical and 2 weeks vacation every year. I worked monday thru friday 4pm to 11pm.

I stayed with this as a career for a couple of reasons.

1. shorter hours so I could focus on my real passion.

2. I enjoy food and food culture. Wine, whisky and craft beers. The knowledge I have about food at this point (spelling aside) is not something you come across in daily life.

3. And I enjoyed serving people. I enjoyed making people happy. (this skill set has stayed with me into my next career)

The reason Im listing all of this is to show how a poor 15 year old who is hungry and didn't even finish high school can climb out of his shit socio-economic background and carve out a little existence for him/herself. I was literally buying food for my mom and little brother with my busboy earnings.

It would be a shame to remove this "net" from lower class people to be able to get ahead if they are willing to work hard and put the time in and have the right skills.

You know the Buddhists believe we spend one of our last lives in the service of others. You all should try it, you dont even have to work in a restaurant.

There's a fundamental difference between a "because we can" restaurant and "because we have to" legislation.

Good on you for ending up working at some place where people throw pearls before swine (figurative reference, please don't take offense to it).

I worked retail in a pharmacy for several years of my life. Undoubtedly a service industry. I made barely above minimum wage while trying to support my family. The hours were long, the job was demanding for what it was - I basically did everything from unloading the truck, stocking the shelves, working the counters, customer service, sweeping floors, closing the store, etc. Most satisfying job I ever had in my life because of the people I dealt with. But the pay sucked... thing is, I couldn't possibly demand that it pay more than it did because anybody could easily do it. It was a minimum wage unskilled job. Sure, I would have loved if it paid more, but there's no way I would ever demand a job like that actually pay any more than it did because it simply shouldn't.

We need better "nets" for the people that need them, not "nets" to trap the people that don't.

 

[Genx87]

I already countered your claim. In those countries working in the service industry has all the benefits of working in other industries because those countries have large social nets. You can raise a family in france working at a restaurant. You cant do that here because for 1 you are paid 2.13 a hour and 2 you dont get health insurance in most situations.

The tipping model creates incentive to do well. Not only for the customer but also for the restaurant.

Maybe the server paid a normal wage will feel less inclined to offer another glass of wine?

Maybe they will feel less incentive to sell you the grand marnier 35 year old instead of the regular.

Maybe they dont care if you drink a 10 year old tawny instead of a great 20 year old tawny.

Maybe they dont care that you get a bitter green to go with that ribeye you ordered, even though it makes the ribeye better and makes the check larger it no longer matters to them.

So whatever. I worked in that industry for 15 years. Its really your problem that you dont appreciate the service you get.

If you follow my link on the first page. It sounds like tipping is totally arbitrary. Good service, bad service. Very little difference in tip amount.

As for your other threats. If a server has a drop in sales. They can be replaced. And the ones pushing for higher priced items and provide better service receive a bonus.

The tipping model is effing horrible. It needs to go away.

 

[JSt0rm]

We need better "nets" for the people that need them, not "nets" to trap the people that don't.

i like that.

The industry deserves a lot of criticism. Its a lot of young people who arent really giving a shit. I've worked with a lot of people who didnt care. But I feel like that is gonna be the case in most industries. The thing is in the status quo they earn significantly less EVERY NIGHT then someone who actually cares and works hard. Isnt that the American way?

 

[JSt0rm]

If you follow my link on the first page. It sounds like tipping is totally arbitrary. Good service, bad service. Very little difference in tip amount.

As for your other threats. If a server has a drop in sales. They can be replaced. And the ones pushing for higher priced items and provide better service receive a bonus.

The tipping model is effing horrible. It needs to go away.

Well there you go. Offering sales bonuses is a very real way to deal with that issue but it really depends on the amounts. I would not work at a restaurant that didnt pay out at least $200 a night average - A 7 hour shift would be 30.70 a hour. Anything less and I would go somewhere else.

You seem to think servers are widgets. They are not all equal but you need bodies. The best servers in a understaffed restaurant will not be able to do well because they are too busy.

As for myself. I tip 15% for bad service and up to 25% for good. And I know what i'm looking for.

 

[Ns1]

If you follow my link on the first page. It sounds like tipping is totally arbitrary. Good service, bad service. Very little difference in tip amount.

As for your other threats. If a server has a drop in sales. They can be replaced. And the ones pushing for higher priced items and provide better service receive a bonus.

The tipping model is effing horrible. It needs to go away.

so obvious it hurts.

 

[JSt0rm]

so obvious it hurts.

So obvious to someone who has never worked in the industry. 😀

 

[Zorba]

Well there you go. Offering sales bonuses is a very real way to deal with that issue but it really depends on the amounts. I would not work at a restaurant that didnt pay out at least $200 a night average - A 7 hour shift would be 30.70 a hour. Anything less and I would go somewhere else.

$30.70/hr is more than the starting salary of almost every college educated profession. More than just about any union factory worker, mechanic or tradesman contract I've ever seen, too. Considering this is at $10pp restaurants, that hire high school kids, this is just stupid.

Yeah, at a nice restaurant, top servers pulling in $31/hr might make sense, but the 12th grader at Chili's?

Can we at least stop hearing the BS about how they only make $2.13/hr? When they are are whining about getting a raise to $15/hr?

 

[Ns1]

Well there you go. Offering sales bonuses is a very real way to deal with that issue but it really depends on the amounts. I would not work at a restaurant that didnt pay out at least $200 a night average - A 7 hour shift would be 30.70 a hour. Anything less and I would go somewhere else.

this is why the tipping model is broken. meanwhile Jose in the back has to leave his 10 hour shift and go to his 2nd job to feed his family because he doesn't get to share in tips.

 

[Newell Steamer]

A place called the 'Crab Shake' is concerned over attracting culinary talent? Is there a special way to defrost and deep-fry frozen seafood?

Nonetheless, it's their business if they want to choke off a decent source of income for their employees, let them.

Oh, and American food is total SHIT - get over it ATOT.

 

[JSt0rm]

$30.70/hr is more than the starting salary of any college educated profession. More than just about any union factory worker, mechanic or tradesman contract I've ever seen, too. Considering this is at $10pp restaurants, that hire high school kids, this is just stupid.

Yeah, at a nice restaurant, top servers pulling in $31/hr might make sense, but the 12th grader at Chili's?

Can we at least stop hearing the BS about how they only make $2.13/hr? When they are are whining about getting a raise to $15/hr?

Im not talking about chilis. I pointed out all of the jobs I had that led to the point where I was making good money. For me at that point or someone with my skillset at that point can and will work in the best places.

A starting server makes shit money. Less then a starting college edu person for sure.