Jobs 'Saved or Created' in Congressional Districts That Don't Exist

[Patranus]

You can't prove it didn't create jobs... now can you?

 

[CycloWizard]

Wow...

An HTTP error occurred while getting:
http://www.recovery.gov/

Details: "Unable to contact target server after 5 tries.".

 

[Modelworks]

Wow...

Guess we know where they didn't create any jobs !

 

[OrByte]

You guys talking about this is probably a data entry error are laughable. 18 Million dollars could design a system that wouldn't have flaws like "$8.4 million spent and 40.3 jobs created in the 99th congressional district of the U.S. Virgin Island" It really isn't that hard to figure out where a place is given any information about it. Not to mention there IS no congressional districts in the U.S Virgin Islands so what the fuck? Why would that even be considered? Someone fucked up Virginia? No....

My work is part of this reporting system. I can tell you that data entry errors are running rampant.

I can tell you that interpreting ARRA from the Fed down to the city/county level is a monstrous task.

I can tell you that in an attempt to collect a MASSIVE amount of data from ARRA recipients, in a manner that is transparent and rapid, has created an incredibly complex reporting system that is really going thru the audit ringer as we speak.

I am meeting with auditors tommorow about this very issue...it is, quite frankly, the most difficult reporting assignment I have ever seen taken on by public agencies. From the Fed down to the local gov level.


So no it is not "laughable" to consider that many of these errors stem from data entry. The real problem is multiple interpretations of the regulations..which result in recipients sending bad/incorrect data to the recovery websites.

 

[CycloWizard]

I finally got connected to the site and looked up the Virgin Islands page:
http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency/StateSummaries/Pages/statesummary.aspx?StateCode=VI

Top Congressional Districts Jobs Amount
1st congressional district 72.2 $68,318,049
00 congressional district 7 $16,392,572
99th congressional district 40.3 $8,376,334
congressional district 4 $156,250

Guam: http://www.recovery.gov/Transparency/StateSummaries/Pages/StateSummary.aspx?StateCode=GU

Top Congressional Districts Jobs Amount
98th congressional district 0 $104,060,137
00 congressional district 149.5 $70,689,970
99th congressional district 302.6 $30,558,152
congressional district 10 $7,142,325
1st congressional district 12 $5,127,420

 

[CycloWizard]

My work is part of this reporting system. I can tell you that data entry errors are running rampant.

I can tell you that interpreting ARRA from the Fed down to the city/county level is a monstrous task.

I can tell you that in an attempt to collect a MASSIVE amount of data from ARRA recipients, in a manner that is transparent and rapid, has created an incredibly complex reporting system that is really going thru the audit ringer as we speak.

I am meeting with auditors tommorow about this very issue...it is, quite frankly, the most difficult reporting assignment I have ever seen taken on by public agencies. From the Fed down to the local gov level.


So no it is not "laughable" to consider that many of these errors stem from data entry. The real problem is multiple interpretations of the regulations..which result in recipients sending bad/incorrect data to the recovery websites.

Why is it difficult? I'm a novice programmer, yet I could create a web form that would allow exact entry of all relevant information in an hour or two. The only explanation for any level of difficulty is the bureaucracy created by the bill itself.

 

[OrByte]

Why is it difficult? I'm a novice programmer, yet I could create a web form that would allow exact entry of all relevant information in an hour or two. The only explanation for any level of difficulty is the bureaucracy created by the bill itself.

your last statement IS part of the problem there is no denying that.

Programming the reporting tools isn't the problem either....there are plenty of very smart, able bodies working on the multitude of reporting tools for ARRA nationwide.

There are waay too many factors into explaining exactly why the reporting is error prone.

Bottom line is, there are a TON of people involved in trying to get the reporting accurate.

One example of how the reporting continues to be difficult. OMB issues reporting requirements for the whole country. Each Fed Agency at separate times, all with individual reporting instructions, issued reporting requirements to State and Local entities.

I work for Transportation and Infrastructure. On top of reconciling Fed Transportation reporting instructions (and building reporting tools and processes) along comes OMB requirements for ARRA...which trumps Fed Transportation instructions.

THEN

I work in a central reporting state. We were in the middle of implementation for reporting (following fed transportation requirements) when all of the sudden we have to jump tracks and build reporting tools/processes for the State ARRA reporting tool.

All of this needed to be rolled out in a matter of 3-4 months...normal rollout for reporting systems (At least those systems Im familiar with) is 6 months at a minimum. Mind you, this is developing requirements, discovering the need, designing the tools and building the processes you name it...all in less than 4 months. And just for my little corner ofthe world, I had to coordinate reporting for 500 local public agencies in my state...on roughly 700 projects, and that list keeps growing.

Now imagine that scenario playing out across all 50 states.

Thats just a taste of ARRA reporting. And errors are normally expected with these types of reporting tools...you just have to learn how to tighten the screws as the report months go by.

Edit: and that is just one small part of hte problem. Throw in OMB and Fed requirements changing every 3 weeks, political needs from every congress person on the planet...state/local politics...resource issues (budgets cuts anyone?) training needs....the list goes on and on...

 

[Patranus]

What gets me is the fact that the government doesn't even know who it is handing money out to or for what.

The simple fact of the matter is that any legitimate grant programs requires a lot of very specific information before the grant proposal is even considered.

The government should have all of this information before it even hands out a penny.

 

[Patranus]

What gets me is the fact that the government doesn't even know who it is handing money out to or for what.

The simple fact of the matter is that any legitimate grant programs requires a lot of very specific information before the grant proposal is even considered.

The government should have all of this information before it even hands out a penny.

 

[monovillage]

What i find funny is that if Fox had put the info up we'd all see a new "FOX LIED" thread. Since it's the Gov't though it's just a minor data error.

 

[IGBT]

contribute to suspicions that counting jobs “saved or created” is more art than science.[/


more then likely your obama is having trouble keeping track of his lies.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What gets me is the fact that the government doesn't even know who it is handing money out to or for what.

The simple fact of the matter is that any legitimate grant programs requires a lot of very specific information before the grant proposal is even considered.

The government should have all of this information before it even hands out a penny.

Your spreading more of your mis-information i see.......you are way too funny.....hahaha

 

[JEDIYoda]

18 million dollars for a web site that cannot check if a district is in a state?

I can code a PHP application that checks addresses against zipcodes/states/cities in under an hour.

No matter what angle you take, this is bad.

Again, you fail.

Actually no you fail on every level except one-- that being official Anand tech Village idiot!

 

[jackschmittusa]

Patranus

If you had actually decided to aquire any knowledge of this subject, you would know what a fool you are. In the interest of speeding the info to the public, the government decided to post the reports as they came in, checking for accuracy and correcting afterward. Many of the reports are being generated by people who have no idea how to fill them out correctly (there are a large number of people involved who have nothing like this in their ordinary job description). People like you who do not tend to seek information and instruction even when they are confused.

Pretty funny actually that you raise hell about something caused by people banging on keyboards with only a half-assed idea of what they are doing, and to see you doing the same.

 

[Acanthus]

You guys talking about this is probably a data entry error are laughable. 18 Million dollars could design a system that wouldn't have flaws like "$8.4 million spent and 40.3 jobs created in the 99th congressional district of the U.S. Virgin Island" It really isn't that hard to figure out where a place is given any information about it. Not to mention there IS no congressional districts in the U.S Virgin Islands so what the fuck? Why would that even be considered? Someone fucked up Virginia? No....

The virgin islands recieved the money obviously, they just dont have congressional districts, and the site is defaulting the figure to 1 or 99.

The arizona one is likely just a data error.

 

[dmcowen674]

The people who are here defending this is laughable.

When you apply for a grant you (usually) have to fill out exactly what you are going to do with the money BEFORE it is given to you. The fact that the government doesn't even know who they are giving money to should concern everyone.

As long it is not going to you and your Republican friends I am happy.

Suck it bitch

 

[dmcowen674]

What gets me is the fact that the government doesn't even know who it is handing money out to or for what.

The simple fact of the matter is that any legitimate grant programs requires a lot of very specific information before the grant proposal is even considered.

The government should have all of this information before it even hands out a penny.

You didn't say a fucking word when your hero Bush was destroying the U.S.

 

[PokerGuy]

Interesting that you assume that money has actually gone to non-existent places, rather than realize that the money almost certainly went to legitimate places,

hahahahahahahahaha :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Thanks for that one. Yep, we all know that government money, especially when it's spent quickly with little oversight will "almost certainly" be used for legitimate purposes. lol

 

[CycloWizard]

your last statement IS part of the problem there is no denying that.

Programming the reporting tools isn't the problem either....there are plenty of very smart, able bodies working on the multitude of reporting tools for ARRA nationwide.

There are waay too many factors into explaining exactly why the reporting is error prone.

Bottom line is, there are a TON of people involved in trying to get the reporting accurate.

One example of how the reporting continues to be difficult. OMB issues reporting requirements for the whole country. Each Fed Agency at separate times, all with individual reporting instructions, issued reporting requirements to State and Local entities.

I work for Transportation and Infrastructure. On top of reconciling Fed Transportation reporting instructions (and building reporting tools and processes) along comes OMB requirements for ARRA...which trumps Fed Transportation instructions.

THEN

I work in a central reporting state. We were in the middle of implementation for reporting (following fed transportation requirements) when all of the sudden we have to jump tracks and build reporting tools/processes for the State ARRA reporting tool.

All of this needed to be rolled out in a matter of 3-4 months...normal rollout for reporting systems (At least those systems Im familiar with) is 6 months at a minimum. Mind you, this is developing requirements, discovering the need, designing the tools and building the processes you name it...all in less than 4 months. And just for my little corner ofthe world, I had to coordinate reporting for 500 local public agencies in my state...on roughly 700 projects, and that list keeps growing.

Now imagine that scenario playing out across all 50 states.

Thats just a taste of ARRA reporting. And errors are normally expected with these types of reporting tools...you just have to learn how to tighten the screws as the report months go by.

Edit: and that is just one small part of hte problem. Throw in OMB and Fed requirements changing every 3 weeks, political needs from every congress person on the planet...state/local politics...resource issues (budgets cuts anyone?) training needs....the list goes on and on...

So, in the name of transparency, the government has outdone itself by creating the most convoluted reporting system in history, thereby ensuring that no one can follow the trail to where the money actually went? Brilliant!

 

[Siddhartha]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jobs-saved-created-congressional-districts-exist/story?id=9097853

The most reassuring statement form the article


So the government doesn't even know where and to whom it is handing out all of this money.

But there is some more good news...


And to cap it off


So the web site the government paid 18 million dollars for as part of said stimulus doesn't even work.

Where can I get sum o dat Obama money? Maybe I can just raid Obama's stash...

The GOP wanted to cut taxes for the wealthiest and cut spending which meant middle and working class workers would lose their jobs.

If you were POTUS back in Jan 2009, what would you have done about the recession?

 

[Genx87]

These are probably data entry errors, but embarassing none the less. That said the whole idea about "saved" jobs is like proving God exists. Nobody can prove anything was "saved". I even question if anybody can prove jobs are "created" by a limited supply of funds.

 

[Bowfinger]

So, in the name of transparency, the government has outdone itself by creating the most convoluted reporting system in history, thereby ensuring that no one can follow the trail to where the money actually went? Brilliant!

I know Paturanus is that ignorant, but I'm surprised you're joining him. The problem is NOT knowing where the money went. The problem is taking thousands and thousands of detailed records and forcing them into pretty little buckets for summary reporting.

My guess (based on years of actual, real world IT experience instead of a bunch of school kids whose only computer experience is games and posting here) is that Congressional District is a required field. Unfortunately, places like the Virgin Islands have no Congressional Districts, yet the poor clerk filling out the form there has to put in something. Consequently, he puts in a 1 or a 99 (or a 999 if it was a three-digit field) to fit a simplistic, one-size-fits-all reporting requirement. A detailed report (as well as the original application) will show where the funds went. The web summary does not. It's a pretty simple concept once you get past the blind partisan attack mentality.

If you're looking for valid criticisms, look to the "data" for jobs created. That's more subjective and easy to game ... as administrations from both political persuasions have regularly demonstrated. Getting hysterical about trivial reporting artifacts like this is a pointless distraction and just makes you look like an idiot. Paturanus can't help it. I think you can.

 

[rudder]

More rightwing drivel.

 

[CycloWizard]

I know Paturanus is that ignorant, but I'm surprised you're joining him. The problem is NOT knowing where the money went. The problem is taking thousands and thousands of detailed records and forcing them into pretty little buckets for summary reporting.

My guess (based on years of actual, real world IT experience instead of a bunch of school kids whose only computer experience is games and posting here) is that Congressional District is a required field. Unfortunately, places like the Virgin Islands have no Congressional Districts, yet the poor clerk filling out the form there has to put in something. Consequently, he puts in a 1 or a 99 (or a 999 if it was a three-digit field) to fit a simplistic, one-size-fits-all reporting requirement. A detailed report (as well as the original application) will show where the funds went. The web summary does not. It's a pretty simple concept once you get past the blind partisan attack mentality.

If you're looking for valid criticisms, look to the "data" for jobs created. That's more subjective and easy to game ... as administrations from both political persuasions have regularly demonstrated. Getting hysterical about trivial reporting artifacts like this is a pointless distraction and just makes you look like an idiot. Paturanus can't help it. I think you can.

It's hardly a "trivial artifact" that the site even allows someone to report that x.6 jobs were created. As someone with "real world IT experience," I would expect you to understand that data validation is something even us "school kids" have done and is trivial to implement. It is therefore hardly an unrealistic expectation that an $18 million website should have such validation. Thus far, I've only posted facts and excerpts from the website, hardly making myself sound "hysterical." The only hysteria going on here is your defense of this nonsense. Your argument amounts to saying, "Don't worry about it - just wait for the final report to come out." To that, I respond that Obama promised real-time accountability and access to this data, something that isn't hard to achieve in practice. Your litany of explanations is simply making excuses in light of the fact that you have "real world IT experience," as I can therefore only assume that you know how trivial it would be to ensure that this data were properly entered. If the reporting process is so impossible, then why did they implement it in the first place? Because they are woefully incompetent, out of touch with reality, or want to hide the flow of money? If you can suggest an alternative option, I'm all ears.

 

[OrByte]

So, in the name of transparency, the government has outdone itself by creating the most convoluted reporting system in history, thereby ensuring that no one can follow the trail to where the money actually went? Brilliant!

Honestly, that is not too far from the truth.

There are monthly reporting requirements, something I haven't seen done on a federal level. It makes for a wild ride.

But whereas you think there are sinister aims....really what you have is a good faith effort to make the transparency a reality.

I can only offer up my anectodal experience...

And one other thing, the reporting process is different than the actual money "tracking" for lack of a better term. Those practices for federal reimbursement have been in place for decades now...and as far as I know the money being spent (and the processes for tracking those monies) and the tracking systems in place are functional. Just as always.