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Jimmy Carter weighs in on the opposition to Obama

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Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Because we know that everyone knows that people who have flown Confederate flags really want black slaves.

You are smarter than that. Wilson was an idiot at best, but why don't you bring up overtly racist things he's done?

And you should know better than to jump to such wild conclusions from my link. I didn't say anything about Joe Wilson wanting to reinstate slavery.

1.) The Confederate flag is a symbol of racism recognized in every corner of the country.
2.) Joe Wilson supported displaying this symbol so strongly that not only did he request it, but provided a signed statement to go along with the flags.
3.) When you go out of your way to display racist symbols, your monocle shouldn't pop out in surprise when people think you're a racist.

Carter should know how people from the south feel about the Confederate Flag. While some people who can't or won't get it will try pinning the racist tail on the donkey, it's too broad a brush to use realistically. I'll give people hell, but I can't do it for other than demonstrable cause, or at least reasonable and substantial grounds.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.

Richard Nixon, Republican.

Another '60s leader, this time Democrat.

"A racist is one who despises someone because of his color, and an Alabama segregationist is one who conscientiously believes that it is in the best interest of Negro and white to have a separate education and social order."

I got more.

This is another thing, the whole 'Democrats in the 60's were racists too' completely ignores the fact that all those racist Democrats got up and joined the Republicans after the Democratic party moved away from them. The Republicans greeted them with open arms.

Ok, which racist policians jumped ship and joined the Reps?
Like I said in my last post, I'm not going to demonize roughly half of the nation based on the "fact" that they are racists. The Reps are screwed up in a lot of way, but I have to tell you, the Dems aren't precisely a bunch of roses either. They are both pretty much self serving, and as I've said in other very conservative forums, the problems aren't with people finding fault in other parties, but circling up the wagons and protecting their own.

I'm not about to vote in the next Presidential election with the choices we're likely to have and that's an issue. It's not worth the gas money.
 
The most fantastic quality of bigotry is that it is totally blind. You will never see a bigot that realizes he is one. A bigot's core and unexamined belief is that he is right. Everything a bigot thinks and sees is predicated on that. He sees the world though colored lenses and knows not he is wearing them. It is an eye that can't see itself.
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Carter should know how people from the south feel about the Confederate Flag. While some people who can't or won't get it will try pinning the racist tail on the donkey, it's too broad a brush to use realistically. I'll give people hell, but I can't do it for other than demonstrable cause, or at least reasonable and substantial grounds.

People from the South can feel about the Confederate flag any way they want, it's still a symbol of racism recognized worldwide and so people should not be surprised if they are viewed as racist for promoting it.

Nazi flags were more symbols of German pride than anything else but you don't see people flying them, do you? (no I'm not comparing the Confederacy to the Nazis, although the Confederacy was still a blight on the history of the US)
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Ok, which racist policians jumped ship and joined the Reps?
Like I said in my last post, I'm not going to demonize roughly half of the nation based on the "fact" that they are racists. The Reps are screwed up in a lot of way, but I have to tell you, the Dems aren't precisely a bunch of roses either. They are both pretty much self serving, and as I've said in other very conservative forums, the problems aren't with people finding fault in other parties, but circling up the wagons and protecting their own.

I'm not about to vote in the next Presidential election with the choices we're likely to have and that's an issue. It's not worth the gas money.

If you are looking to provide an alternate explanation for the change of the South from voting almost exclusively Democratic from the end of the civil war up through the 1960's, with an abrupt change to almost exclusively Republican after civil rights legislation was passed, I'm open to hearing it.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

And you should know better than to jump to such wild conclusions from my link. I didn't say anything about Joe Wilson wanting to reinstate slavery.

1.) The Confederate flag is a symbol of racism recognized in every corner of the country.
2.) Joe Wilson supported displaying this symbol so strongly that not only did he request it, but provided a signed statement to go along with the flags.
3.) When you go out of your way to display racist symbols, your monocle shouldn't pop out in surprise when people think you're a racist.

Carter should know how people from the south feel about the Confederate Flag. While some people who can't or won't get it will try pinning the racist tail on the donkey, it's too broad a brush to use realistically. I'll give people hell, but I can't do it for other than demonstrable cause, or at least reasonable and substantial grounds.

People from the South can feel about the Confederate flag any way they want, it's still a symbol of racism recognized worldwide and so people should not be surprised if they are viewed as racist for promoting it.

Nazi flags were more symbols of German pride than anything else but you don't see people flying them, do you? (no I'm not comparing the Confederacy to the Nazis, although the Confederacy was still a blight on the history of the US)[/quote]


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Because one is offended doesn't make for a racist. Hell, I kick back at the other notorious forum where we make fun of virtually everyone, and we have members who belong to every minority or orientation you could come up with. Why? Because we don't take ourselves seriously. If you were to jump in randomly you'd think we were setting up nooses sometimes, and you'd be wrong.

Back to Wilson. Based on what he said, is he racist? You've got a Confederate Flag flown. Probably a dumb ass move for a national politician. If stupid made racist, then 9/10 of this forum would be in trouble. Carter has no basis in fact for his statement regarding Wilson, and Wilson is the issue.

Edit-fubar quotes
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The most fantastic quality of bigotry is that it is totally blind. You will never see a bigot that realizes he is one. A bigot's core and unexamined belief is that he is right. Everything a bigot thinks and sees is predicated on that. He sees the world though colored lenses and knows not he is wearing them. It is an eye that can't see itself.

Another side of the coin is that being a bigot is so horrid, that being called one makes it true. As Dreyfus found out stigmas are all that's needed.
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Because one is offended doesn't make for a racist. Hell, I kick back at the other notorious forum where we make fun of virtually everyone, and we have members who belong to every minority or orientation you could come up with. Why? Because we don't take ourselves seriously. If you were to jump in randomly you'd think we were setting up nooses sometimes, and you'd be wrong.

Back to Wilson. Based on what he said, is he racist? You've got a Confederate Flag flown. Probably a dumb ass move for a national politician. If stupid made racist, then 9/10 of this forum would be in trouble. Carter has no basis in fact for his statement regarding Wilson, and Wilson is the issue.

A very reasonable basis for fact in terms of Wilson's racism is that he personally requested the flying of racist symbols on a regular basis. It doesn't mean he HAS to be a racist, but it is most certainly evidence that he may be.

I guarantee you that my sense of humor can give anyone a run for their money in terms of sheer offensiveness, but that is neither here nor there. I have no sympathy for the idiot, he's made his bed by pandering to these elements over the years, let him reap what he has sewn.
 
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Because one is offended doesn't make for a racist. Hell, I kick back at the other notorious forum where we make fun of virtually everyone, and we have members who belong to every minority or orientation you could come up with. Why? Because we don't take ourselves seriously. If you were to jump in randomly you'd think we were setting up nooses sometimes, and you'd be wrong.

Back to Wilson. Based on what he said, is he racist? You've got a Confederate Flag flown. Probably a dumb ass move for a national politician. If stupid made racist, then 9/10 of this forum would be in trouble. Carter has no basis in fact for his statement regarding Wilson, and Wilson is the issue.

A very reasonable basis for fact in terms of Wilson's racism is that he personally requested the flying of racist symbols on a regular basis. It doesn't mean he HAS to be a racist, but it is most certainly evidence that he may be.

I guarantee you that my sense of humor can give anyone a run for their money in terms of sheer offensiveness, but that is neither here nor there. I have no sympathy for the idiot, he's made his bed by pandering to these elements over the years, let him reap what he has sewn.

Well we'll have to agree he's an idiot and leave it at that 😛
 
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Originally posted by: Phokus
Carter is just stating the obvious. If conservatives ever start tea parties against republican presidents for reckless spending, i'll be impressed.

Except that you have no proof, you have a conjecture at best. These are the same people who called up their congressmen pleading with them to oppose the Bush bailouts :roll: And we all know how black Bush is.

Yeah, i have no proof that you guys went batshit crazy and started tea parties and town hall scream fests during bush's term.

Right.

A primary reason a lot of these types of people didn't openly protest Bush is because weakening him would threaten political control. He was their guy, the lesser of two evils. Most of this isn't about racism, it's simple politics... and I get the feeling you know little about either.

Of course there are racists who will join the chorus against Obama. And of course there are Liberals who will then paint with a broad brush. Both shameful.
 
Racism occurs where people of one group or another, who hate themselves, are in contact with some other group they can select to dump their self hate onto, somebody they can blame for the anger they feel hating themselves. Thus they teach the other group to hate themselves and then the other group comes after them for revenge. This is how the Germans created the Jew and the Jew the Palestinian. It's how the KKK created the Black Panthers. We always create exactly what we fear. We turn others into exactly the stereotype of evil that we. We turn people into what we hate about ourselves; we make them as worthless as we secretly feel.

Thus is is that white Southern culture gave America it's problem with Blacks, a people who suffer continuous racism to this day and constant problems with self doubt, self loathing, and self abnegation, a people who live now with the consequences of self destruction as part of their culture, fatherless families, crime, drugs, and everything else we typically refer to as inferior.

When people are taught they are worthless they live that way and fulfill all the stereotypical negatives they are charged with, thus appearing to justify their inferior status.

Once the disease of self hate becomes endemic in a culture, that culture walks a path to self destruction and manifests inferior qualities which reinforce the stereotype. Blacks actually become inferior because they feel they are and white people can see it. And in this way they find justification for their racism. You can't tell a racist that Blacks are equal because they can see they are not, it gets reinforced in a million ways throughout their lives.

So we create our own reality. We have made Blacks feel inferior and now they are because they feel it. And like everybody else they do not want to see their own self hate. They blame you white people and of course they are right, except that is was never a conscious act or intentional.

So the fact is that where there is stereotyping such as that Blacks are inferior, it is based on real evidence, the fact that people who feel inferior act that way.

And now we come to the Southern White. You know, the hayseed, the ignorant clod buster, the dumb hick, the racist pig, the backward Neanderthal, all those stereotypes that are there because they reflect reality, the fact that Southern White people are actually inferior, just like the Blacks they created.

Yes, what goes around comes around and comes home to roost. Southerners are thought of as backward because they are in exactly the same way that Black people are inferior. Southern White people have massive emotional scars which makes they profoundly hickish, clannish and insular twits, generally speaking, of course.
 
I'm sitting here, having come across a documentary called "Right America Feeling Wronged." It's mostly filmed supporters of McCain/Palin during their campaign, shot by Alexandra Pelosi. I'm watching it and realizing there's another source of Obama hate I probably hadn't given enough consideration: good old fashioned religious hate. I think, in addition to a lot of flat racist hate, a lot of these people are having a crisis of faith. They're in an emotional turmoil that God could have allowed Obama to win. I don't think the two hates are mutually exclusive, and maybe we are seeing a perfect hate storm (well, that and your usual special interest greed) fueling much of the loudest outcry against Obama.

I'd post a link to the vid but it might not be a legit source, but google is your friend and I think the vid is really interesting so far.
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The most fantastic quality of bigotry is that it is totally blind. You will never see a bigot that realizes he is one. A bigot's core and unexamined belief is that he is right. Everything a bigot thinks and sees is predicated on that. He sees the world though colored lenses and knows not he is wearing them. It is an eye that can't see itself.

Another side of the coin is that being a bigot is so horrid, that being called one makes it true. As Dreyfus found out stigmas are all that's needed.

I don't know what you are refering to here but perhaps it was covered in my last post above.
 
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian
I'm sitting here, having come across a documentary called "Right America Feeling Wronged." It's mostly filmed supporters of McCain/Palin during their campaign, shot by Alexandra Pelosi. I'm watching it and realizing there's another source of Obama hate I probably hadn't given enough consideration: good old fashioned religious hate. I think, in addition to a lot of flat racist hate, a lot of these people are having a crisis of faith. They're in an emotional turmoil that God could have allowed Obama to win. I don't think the two hates are mutually exclusive, and maybe we are seeing a perfect hate storm (well, that and your usual special interest greed) fueling much of the loudest outcry against Obama.

I'd post a link to the vid but it might not be a legit source, but google is your friend and I think the vid is really interesting so far.

I mentioned somewhere before that the bad patch Republicans are going thought right now is because they are dying. Their whole 1950s world has gone extinct and left them here stranded. Their kids will be OK. OCGuy is due any time to be a Grand Pa.
 
So anyone who doesn't agree with the Democrats is a racist? Horseshit.

Here?s what racism looks like. I live one hour from Detroit. It's a cesspool. Poverty, homelessness and unemployment at astronomical rates. The schools in bankruptcy, the children poorly educated if at all. Rampant crime and drug use, unwed mothers, third and now fourth generation welfare recipients.

What evil force would keep this city in this state of total and utter despair? The answer is that it?s been under complete Democratic control since 1962.

The Democratic Party wants only one thing from the black community and that is their vote. Keep them under their thumb and keep feeding them the line that they?re the only ones that can help them. Make them believe that the answer is yet one more election away. It?s despicable behavior. It's racist behavior. Behavior in effect for nearly 50 years in Detroit.

Now everyone who does not embrace the ideals of the party is a racist? Complete and utter horseshit. This racist argument is one made out of desperation. No one wants to be thought of as a racist. Keep them occupied by planting a seed of doubt in their minds. Keep them busy questioning themselves. This is a transparent attempt. An argument that is made by those of weak mind and is accepted by the same.

Some of the best lessons are learned in childhood. Keep crying wolf.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The most fantastic quality of bigotry is that it is totally blind. You will never see a bigot that realizes he is one. A bigot's core and unexamined belief is that he is right. Everything a bigot thinks and sees is predicated on that. He sees the world though colored lenses and knows not he is wearing them. It is an eye that can't see itself.

Another side of the coin is that being a bigot is so horrid, that being called one makes it true. As Dreyfus found out stigmas are all that's needed.

I don't know what you are refering to here but perhaps it was covered in my last post above.

Sometimes people are from a group which has a stigma attached to it. Blacks are criminals, Hispanics lazy, Southerners racist.

Sometimes the stereotypes are true with particular individuals, however wouldn't it be best if people who were criminals, those who are lazy, and those who are racist be labeled for their actions rather than their group?
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Rhonda the Sly
"I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he's African-American,"...*snip*
I think some of us are missing a point, Carter didn't say the disagreement is strong because he's black but instead that the vicious animosity is result racism. Two very different things.

By-the-by, I haven't seen Carter around in a while. I almost forgot he wasn't six feet under.
That'll be an interesting day on this forum, huh?

the carter hate would rival ossama hate.
 
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Originally posted by: Phokus
Carter is just stating the obvious. If conservatives ever start tea parties against republican presidents for reckless spending, i'll be impressed.

Except that you have no proof, you have a conjecture at best. These are the same people who called up their congressmen pleading with them to oppose the Bush bailouts :roll: And we all know how black Bush is.

Yeah, i have no proof that you guys went batshit crazy and started tea parties and town hall scream fests during bush's term.

Right.

You still have nothing except your warped views brainwashed into your little head by "progressive" blog sites.

Regardless of the President's race, the things the government has done in 2009 is unprecedented. Does the all-knowing Phokus know what the word "unprecedented" means? Well, if you did you would already know why Carter is *not* "stating the obvious".

But here I am again at AT P&N arguing with fools who don't even know basic logic. All they know are what a blog site tells them.
 
Originally posted by: boomerang
So anyone who doesn't agree with the Democrats is a racist? Horseshit.

Here?s what racism looks like. I live one hour from Detroit. It's a cesspool. Poverty, homelessness and unemployment at astronomical rates. The schools in bankruptcy, the children poorly educated if at all. Rampant crime and drug use, unwed mothers, third and now fourth generation welfare recipients.

What evil force would keep this city in this state of total and utter despair? The answer is that it?s been under complete Democratic control since 1962.

The Democratic Party wants only one thing from the black community and that is their vote. Keep them under their thumb and keep feeding them the line that they?re the only ones that can help them. Make them believe that the answer is yet one more election away. It?s despicable behavior. It's racist behavior. Behavior in effect for nearly 50 years in Detroit.

Now everyone who does not embrace the ideals of the party is a racist? Complete and utter horseshit. This racist argument is one made out of desperation. No one wants to be thought of as a racist. Keep them occupied by planting a seed of doubt in their minds. Keep them busy questioning themselves. This is a transparent attempt. An argument that is made by those of weak mind and is accepted by the same.

Some of the best lessons are learned in childhood. Keep crying wolf.

:thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: boomerang
So anyone who doesn't agree with the Democrats is a racist? Horseshit.

Here?s what racism looks like. I live one hour from Detroit. It's a cesspool. Poverty, homelessness and unemployment at astronomical rates. The schools in bankruptcy, the children poorly educated if at all. Rampant crime and drug use, unwed mothers, third and now fourth generation welfare recipients.

What evil force would keep this city in this state of total and utter despair? The answer is that it?s been under complete Democratic control since 1962.

The Democratic Party wants only one thing from the black community and that is their vote. Keep them under their thumb and keep feeding them the line that they?re the only ones that can help them. Make them believe that the answer is yet one more election away. It?s despicable behavior. It's racist behavior. Behavior in effect for nearly 50 years in Detroit.

Now everyone who does not embrace the ideals of the party is a racist? Complete and utter horseshit. This racist argument is one made out of desperation. No one wants to be thought of as a racist. Keep them occupied by planting a seed of doubt in their minds. Keep them busy questioning themselves. This is a transparent attempt. An argument that is made by those of weak mind and is accepted by the same.

Some of the best lessons are learned in childhood. Keep crying wolf.

There was a tiny finish nail, and you just hit it with a 20 pound sledge hammer of truth.

Well done.
 
Originally posted by: boomerang
So anyone who doesn't agree with the Democrats is a racist? Horseshit.
...
Now everyone who does not embrace the ideals of the party is a racist? Complete and utter horseshit.
...

Horseshit, I agree. Most folks would agree. I'm sure Jimmy Carter agrees too. Decent try at deflection though. 7.5/10.
 
Originally posted by: Modelworks
I think the problem is he made a lot of promises during campaigning and I think he went too far with a lot of them .
I'm sorry, but the real problem is that the media have let Republicans get away without paying penance. As former Regan and George H. Bush staffer Bruce Bartlet wrote:

"In my opinion, conservative activists, who seem to believe that the louder they shout the more correct their beliefs must be, are less angry about Obama?s policies than they are about having lost the White House in 2008. They are primarily Republican Party hacks trying to overturn the election results, not representatives of a true grassroots revolt against liberal policies. If that were the case they would have been out demonstrating against the Medicare drug benefit, the Sarbanes-Oxley bill, and all the pork-barrel spending that Bush refused to veto."

"Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect. They can start building some by admitting to themselves that Bush caused many of the problems they are protesting."

And elsewhere he said:


"I believe that political parties should do penance for their mistakes and just losing power is not enough. Part of that involves understanding why those mistakes were made and how to prevent them from happening again. Republicans, however, have done no penance. They just pretend that they did nothing wrong. But until they do penance they don't deserve any credibility and should be ignored until they do. That's what my attacks on Bush are all about. I want Republicans to admit they were wrong about him, accept blame for his mistakes, and take some meaningful action to keep them from happening again. Bush should be treated as a pariah, as Richard Nixon was for many years until he rebuilt his credibility by more or less coming clean about Watergate with David Frost and writing a number of thoughtful books.

One reason this isn't happening is because the media don't treat Republicans as if they are discredited. On the contrary, they often seem to be treated as if they have more credibility than the administration. Just look at the silly issue of death panels. The media should have laughed it out the window, ridiculed it or at least ignored it once it was determined that there was no basis to the charge. Instead, those making the most outlandish charges are treated with deference and respect, while those that actually have credibility on the subject are treated as equals at best and often with deep skepticism, as if they are the ones with an ax to grind."
 
In my personal experience this approach is backfiring big time. People who never paid attention to politics much, who are now starting to be disappointed in the president, disagreeing with the president - you're calling them racists. Basically rallying them to action.

It started with voters who were big obama supporters and voters, getting behind him. Now that they are seeing what they got they oppose him and his policies and endlessly seeing his smug face on TV.

For all that is good in the world, please keep calling those that oppose the president racists. Please, keep it up.
 
Originally posted by: Pens1566
It's not about policy. Hillary was proposing much more "socialism" with the plan in '93 and got nowhere near the hate this is getting.

Because her plan wasn't going anywhere. These recent proposed policies actually have a shot at becoming enacted...duh.
 
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