Jesus Christ as a conservative and Rupublican?

[Mavtek3100]

Jesus was a Jew, he just rejected the idea of Tyranny within the old testament. It's very safe to say that Jesus himself was very conservative, but no worry's he's most definitely not going to bother you. Why, because Jesus was most definitely a Libertarian.

Tell that to your Republican friends, see if they have an argument.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Jesus was a Jew, he just rejected the idea of Tyranny within the old testament. It's very safe to say that Jesus himself was very conservative, but no worry's he's most definitely not going to bother you. Why, because Jesus was most definitely a Libertarian.

Tell that to your Republican friends, see if they have an argument.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say here. Your first 2 sentences are a contradiction, and conservative != libertarian.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Well, lets see how the values of Democrats and Republicans break down today:

Democrats are the party of:

- Abortion for all, the far left wants to allow abortions after the child is fully born.
- Anti - Religious in public places. There is no doubt, Democrats at large want nothing to do with religion in anything deemed "public". They willing indoctrinate our kids into a secular society. Then, when Parents want to take their kids out of public schools and into private or home schooled education, they are met with fierce opposition by Democrats. The let is fiercly anti-Christian more and more each day. It used to be the far left only but now you cannot be a good Democrat without being a secularist in the public square.
- Government is the answer to all problems. This isn't an obvious "would Jesus be against it?" argument, but it really is. Throughout the Bible, God's philosophy of a capable man's direction is clear : if you don't work, you don't eat. The left sets up welfare, social security, etc etc that attempts to avert the will of God. The result? More poor people than ever before, people enslaved to those that promised to help them in the first place and completely dependant on the rest of society.
- Illegal Immigration - do not take a strong stance against illegal immegration. Jesus was a proponent of obeying the law, the Democrats are all about breaking any law that doesn't help them.
- Gay marriage - only the left wants to re-define traditional marriage as between 2 men or 2 women.

Republicans are not perfect, but here's what Republicans are still the party of, or at least the lesser of two evils:

- Abortion outlawed. I think the general consensus is that Abortion to save the mother's life, ie a life for a life, is acceptable but the far right is all about allowing God to decide and live with that decision.
- Shocked by every legislative decision or court order that mandates the removal of traditional, Christian icons from the public square.
- Government is NOT the answer to all problems. Government is essential a society, but individual responsiblity trumps all else. My neighbor is not responsible for my welfare, and any care he gives me should come from his heart, not a government mandate.
- Illegal Immigration - Republicans were the key to defeating that legislature back in 2006 pushed by Democrats and Bush. As a republican, I don't care how many people come to the USA, I just want it to be done through the rule of law.
- Gay marriage - wants to keep marriage as defined as between a man and a woman. The Bible's stance on man on man or woman on woman relationships are clear. The left doesn't care. It's an abomination in God's sight. Homosexual (offenders) will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, the Bible teachers.

The bottom line is though, Democrats want nothing to do with God's definition of morality. Republicans generally do. There are many definitions of a democrat and a republican but if you ask me, most Republicans are generaly more Godfearing and guided by Christian principals where Democrats are generally more secular and guided by their own mob rule and often oppose traditional christian values.

IOW, you think that the only issues Jesus cared about were abortion, homosexuality, and illegal immigration.

Thanks for letting us know here that you have never read the Bible in your entire life. I mean this seriously too. Your "if you don't work, you don't eat" proves you never read the words of Jesus once (try reading Matthew 6 and repeating your words again).

What an unbelievable hypocrite you are. Can I assume you're a Pentecostal?

Vic, i know you hate me, and i have been less than nice to you before, and for that I apologize. But you're completely wrong about my post here.

Why would you think that the stuff I posted was the only thing Jesus cared about? Why even bring this up? i don't have a time to go through every issue that's prevalent in our lives, i only mentioned a few...

From this though, you drew the conclusion that i've never read the Bible... believe what you want.

Jesus fed a crowd of thousands on more than one occasion because he had compassion on them. He didn't feed them for their entire lives through miracles performed before them, right? The left-wing welfare state makes prisoners of minorities like Blacks and soon Hispanics if they get their way. Jesus spoke a message to individuals. Think about it.

I'm a hypocrit? In what way were you referring to?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Why are liberals so obsessed with Jesus's supposed political ideology?


These threads are stupid...

 

[Mavtek3100]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Jesus was a Jew, he just rejected the idea of Tyranny within the old testament. It's very safe to say that Jesus himself was very conservative, but no worry's he's most definitely not going to bother you. Why, because Jesus was most definitely a Libertarian.

Tell that to your Republican friends, see if they have an argument.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say here. Your first 2 sentences are a contradiction, and conservative != libertarian.

No the 1st 2 sentences are not contradictions, they are the truth. As far as a conservative being a libertarian sure, a liberal could also be a libertarian, but it would be a lot harder.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Jesus was a Jew, he just rejected the idea of Tyranny within the old testament. It's very safe to say that Jesus himself was very conservative, but no worry's he's most definitely not going to bother you. Why, because Jesus was most definitely a Libertarian.

Tell that to your Republican friends, see if they have an argument.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say here. Your first 2 sentences are a contradiction, and conservative != libertarian.

No the 1st 2 sentences are not contradictions, they are the truth. As far as a conservative being a libertarian sure, a liberal could also be a libertarian, but it would be a lot harder.

How can one be opposed to the reigning status quo and a conservative at the same time?

Figure that one out, and you'll realize why your premise is wrong here.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Vic, i know you hate me, and i have been less than nice to you before, and for that I apologize. But you're completely wrong about my post here.

Why would you think that the stuff I posted was the only thing Jesus cared about? Why even bring this up? i don't have a time to go through every issue that's prevalent in our lives, i only mentioned a few...

From this though, you drew the conclusion that i've never read the Bible... believe what you want.

Jesus fed a crowd of thousands on more than one occasion because he had compassion on them. He didn't feed them for their entire lives through miracles performed before them, right? The left-wing welfare state makes prisoners of minorities like Blacks and soon Hispanics if they get their way. Jesus spoke a message to individuals. Think about it.

I'm a hypocrit? In what way were you referring to?

I'm sorry, have you bothered to read Matthew 6 yet, or are you still obsessed on your notion that Jesus would have cared more about abortion and gay marriage than the plight of the poor?

Of course, Jesus spoke a message to individuals. My gripe with your ilk is that only you only pretend to support individualism while clearly working towards a collective moral authoritarian agenda.
Oh boy, you'll let me keep what little is left of my money after you fight your unnecessary wars and allow the wealthy elite to bilk us, but you'll be throwing that gay and that adulterer in jail. Ooh, feel the phony freedom!
And on that subject, while you're at it, look up John 8.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Vic, i know you hate me, and i have been less than nice to you before, and for that I apologize. But you're completely wrong about my post here.

Why would you think that the stuff I posted was the only thing Jesus cared about? Why even bring this up? i don't have a time to go through every issue that's prevalent in our lives, i only mentioned a few...

From this though, you drew the conclusion that i've never read the Bible... believe what you want.

Jesus fed a crowd of thousands on more than one occasion because he had compassion on them. He didn't feed them for their entire lives through miracles performed before them, right? The left-wing welfare state makes prisoners of minorities like Blacks and soon Hispanics if they get their way. Jesus spoke a message to individuals. Think about it.

I'm a hypocrit? In what way were you referring to?

I'm sorry, have you bothered to read Matthew 6 yet, or are you still obsessed on your notion that Jesus would have cared more about abortion and gay marriage than the plight of the poor?

Of course, Jesus spoke a message to individuals. My gripe with your ilk is that only you only pretend to support individualism while clearly working towards a collective moral authoritarian agenda.
Oh boy, you'll let me keep what little is left of my money after you fight your unnecessary wars and allow the wealthy elite to bilk us, but you'll be throwing that gay and that adulterer in jail. Ooh, feel the phony freedom!
And on that subject, while you're at it, look up John 8.

Why don't you just read the whole thing instead of picking out some passages that fit your agenda and ignore those that don't?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Vic, i know you hate me, and i have been less than nice to you before, and for that I apologize. But you're completely wrong about my post here.

Why would you think that the stuff I posted was the only thing Jesus cared about? Why even bring this up? i don't have a time to go through every issue that's prevalent in our lives, i only mentioned a few...

From this though, you drew the conclusion that i've never read the Bible... believe what you want.

Jesus fed a crowd of thousands on more than one occasion because he had compassion on them. He didn't feed them for their entire lives through miracles performed before them, right? The left-wing welfare state makes prisoners of minorities like Blacks and soon Hispanics if they get their way. Jesus spoke a message to individuals. Think about it.

I'm a hypocrit? In what way were you referring to?

I'm sorry, have you bothered to read Matthew 6 yet, or are you still obsessed on your notion that Jesus would have cared more about abortion and gay marriage than the plight of the poor?

Of course, Jesus spoke a message to individuals. My gripe with your ilk is that only you only pretend to support individualism while clearly working towards a collective moral authoritarian agenda.
Oh boy, you'll let me keep what little is left of my money after you fight your unnecessary wars and allow the wealthy elite to bilk us, but you'll be throwing that gay and that adulterer in jail. Ooh, feel the phony freedom!
And on that subject, while you're at it, look up John 8.

Why don't you just read the whole thing instead of picking out some passages that fit your agenda and ignore those that don't?

I've read the Bible cover to cover in both the KJV and NIV translations. I can quote chapter and verse in the Gospels from memory.

I'm not trying to fit any agenda here, you were. Jesus never once spoke of abortion or homosexuality (he was strongly opposed to adultery though, but at the same time said that he without sin should cast the first stone), or illegal immigration, and his economic ideology was decidedly socialist (for lack of a better word). Sure, he taught people to fish rather than just fed them fish (although he did do that too), but at the same time he was extremely critical of money, hoarding wealth, and allowing the poor to suffer.

BTW, I just called you out for espousing a collectivist moral authoritarian agenda under the guise of being some kind of individualist or libertarian, and you ignored that.

 

[miketheidiot]

i'll just leave this to vic.

 

[Mavtek3100]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Jesus was a Jew, he just rejected the idea of Tyranny within the old testament. It's very safe to say that Jesus himself was very conservative, but no worry's he's most definitely not going to bother you. Why, because Jesus was most definitely a Libertarian.

Tell that to your Republican friends, see if they have an argument.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say here. Your first 2 sentences are a contradiction, and conservative != libertarian.

No the 1st 2 sentences are not contradictions, they are the truth. As far as a conservative being a libertarian sure, a liberal could also be a libertarian, but it would be a lot harder.

How can one be opposed to the reigning status quo and a conservative at the same time?

Figure that one out, and you'll realize why your premise is wrong here.

Quite easily? If the status quo isn't conservative. A conservative will use conservative, reasoned methods for change. If conservativism doesn't exist, one must make it so, using conservative methods. How can you say Jesus was liberal in his actions?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Jesus was a Jew, he just rejected the idea of Tyranny within the old testament. It's very safe to say that Jesus himself was very conservative, but no worry's he's most definitely not going to bother you. Why, because Jesus was most definitely a Libertarian.

Tell that to your Republican friends, see if they have an argument.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say here. Your first 2 sentences are a contradiction, and conservative != libertarian.

No the 1st 2 sentences are not contradictions, they are the truth. As far as a conservative being a libertarian sure, a liberal could also be a libertarian, but it would be a lot harder.

How can one be opposed to the reigning status quo and a conservative at the same time?

Figure that one out, and you'll realize why your premise is wrong here.

Quite easily? If the status quo isn't conservative. A conservative will use conservative, reasoned methods for change. If conservativism doesn't exist, one must make it so, using conservative methods. How can you say Jesus was liberal in his actions?

the status quo is always conservative, thats what the word means.

liberals are liberal, meaning to support change to difference
conservatives are conservative, meaning to support the status quo.

you also have such thins as revolutionaries/radicals and reactionaries, who want radical change either to something new (revolutionaries) or the glorious past (reactionaries)

by the definition or the words, jesus was either a liberal or a revolutionary

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Vic
I've read the Bible cover to cover in both the KJV and NIV translations. I can quote chapter and verse in the Gospels from memory.

I'm not trying to fit any agenda here, you were. Jesus never once spoke of abortion or homosexuality (he was strongly opposed to adultery though, but at the same time said that he without sin should cast the first stone), or illegal immigration, and his economic ideology was decidedly socialist (for lack of a better word). Sure, he taught people to fish rather than just fed them fish (although he did do that too), but at the same time he was extremely critical of money, hoarding wealth, and allowing the poor to suffer.

BTW, I just called you out for espousing a collectivist moral authoritarian agenda under the guise of being some kind of individualist or libertarian, and you ignored that.

Honestly, i'm not sure what you're arguing for... put your cards on the table, are you saying Jesus would have been a progressive liberal democrat?

I don't know what you mean by collectivist moral authoritaian agenda... which is why I didn't reply.

 

[Mavtek3100]

FYI conservative has had different meanings throughout the history of the world. There is no static definition of what it means to be conservative. For me it means to be conservative in my actions. Or to act in moderation, to change with moderation. Change to make sure values that respect liberty are adhered to. That's what it means to me. Jesus acted to preserve the liberty of his disciples, he acted in moderation, he acted conservatively to adhere to his traditions.

On another note Vic please recite the memorized passages of Jesus' socialists views, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Honestly, i'm not sure what you're arguing for... put your cards on the table, are you saying Jesus would have been a progressive liberal democrat?

I don't know what you mean by collectivist moral authoritaian agenda... which is why I didn't reply.

Ah hell no. Jesus wasn't a progressive liberal democrat. He was more like a political radical fighting non-violently for the rights of a conquered people. Like a Gandhi but cubed and squared. Lots of people talk the talk, but NO ONE has ever walked the walk like Jesus did.

A collectivist moral authoritarian agenda is for one group in a society to impose its moral code on every other group. I think that speaks for itself.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Jesus was a Jew, he just rejected the idea of Tyranny within the old testament. It's very safe to say that Jesus himself was very conservative, but no worry's he's most definitely not going to bother you. Why, because Jesus was most definitely a Libertarian.

Tell that to your Republican friends, see if they have an argument.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say here. Your first 2 sentences are a contradiction, and conservative != libertarian.

No the 1st 2 sentences are not contradictions, they are the truth. As far as a conservative being a libertarian sure, a liberal could also be a libertarian, but it would be a lot harder.

How can one be opposed to the reigning status quo and a conservative at the same time?

Figure that one out, and you'll realize why your premise is wrong here.

Quite easily? If the status quo isn't conservative. A conservative will use conservative, reasoned methods for change. If conservativism doesn't exist, one must make it so, using conservative methods. How can you say Jesus was liberal in his actions?

Conservatives don't seek change except to go back to the past. Conservatism doesn't mean to act conservatively, but to conserve the status quo.

The root word of the political philosophy of liberalism is LIBERTY. Liberalism does not mean to act liberally (whatever that would mean).

I have found that most of the confusion on this topic on the internet stems from misuse of terms. Today's American liberals are actually liberal progressives. While today's American conservatives are actually liberal conservatives. Technically speaking, both groups embrace the liberal philosophies of free market economies, sweeping individual liberties, government limited by the rule of law, separation of church and state, etc.

That's what makes these discussions so silly. Liberal philosophy, progressive or conservative, didn't exist in Jesus' day. Social conditions, particularly the nature of religion in people's lives, was so completely different that to make comparisons to modern philosophies just doesn't work. Here's an example, a lawyer in Jesus' time (the word appears several times in the Gospels), was actually a religious scholar, probably a Pharisee (which today are called rabbis, a word which means teacher). These religious leaders were also the political leaders, except for the conquering Roman authorities who ruled over all. The Law of Moses, all 613 commandments of it, literally was the law of the land, just as much if not more so than we hold our Constitution and Bill of Rights today.
So you better believe that when Jesus, a rabbi Himself, said that there were only 2 commandments, that was not exactly a strict following of the law on His part and according to contemporary beliefs, now was it?

Matthew 6:19-34
19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light.
23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?
28 "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.
29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
31 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Honestly, i'm not sure what you're arguing for... put your cards on the table, are you saying Jesus would have been a progressive liberal democrat?

I don't know what you mean by collectivist moral authoritaian agenda... which is why I didn't reply.

Ah hell no. Jesus wasn't a progressive liberal democrat. He was more like a political radical fighting non-violently for the rights of a conquered people. Like a Gandhi but cubed and squared. Lots of people talk the talk, but NO ONE has ever walked the walk like Jesus did.

A collectivist moral authoritarian agenda is for one group in a society to impose its moral code on every other group. I think that speaks for itself.

I'll re-iterate my position on the question. Asking what party Jesus would belong to is like asking what the color Green tastes like.

Jesus, was divine. He was God. You're right that nobody has ever done what he's done, because it's literally impossible for anyone to do so. To be one of Jesus' disciples means to obey his laws. The problem with Abortion is that it gives all people an OK to kill the unborn, innocent babies. Liberalism today is all about subverting God's laws and making their own.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Honestly, i'm not sure what you're arguing for... put your cards on the table, are you saying Jesus would have been a progressive liberal democrat?

I don't know what you mean by collectivist moral authoritaian agenda... which is why I didn't reply.

Ah hell no. Jesus wasn't a progressive liberal democrat. He was more like a political radical fighting non-violently for the rights of a conquered people. Like a Gandhi but cubed and squared. Lots of people talk the talk, but NO ONE has ever walked the walk like Jesus did.

A collectivist moral authoritarian agenda is for one group in a society to impose its moral code on every other group. I think that speaks for itself.

I'll re-iterate my position on the question. Asking what party Jesus would belong to is like asking what the color Green tastes like.

Jesus, was divine. He was God. You're right that nobody has ever done what he's done, because it's literally impossible for anyone to do so. To be one of Jesus' disciples means to obey his laws. The problem with Abortion is that it gives all people an OK to kill the unborn, innocent babies. Liberalism today is all about subverting God's laws and making their own.

Proof.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Honestly, i'm not sure what you're arguing for... put your cards on the table, are you saying Jesus would have been a progressive liberal democrat?

I don't know what you mean by collectivist moral authoritaian agenda... which is why I didn't reply.

Ah hell no. Jesus wasn't a progressive liberal democrat. He was more like a political radical fighting non-violently for the rights of a conquered people. Like a Gandhi but cubed and squared. Lots of people talk the talk, but NO ONE has ever walked the walk like Jesus did.

A collectivist moral authoritarian agenda is for one group in a society to impose its moral code on every other group. I think that speaks for itself.

I'll re-iterate my position on the question. Asking what party Jesus would belong to is like asking what the color Green tastes like.

Jesus, was divine. He was God. You're right that nobody has ever done what he's done, because it's literally impossible for anyone to do so. To be one of Jesus' disciples means to obey his laws. The problem with Abortion is that it gives all people an OK to kill the unborn, innocent babies. Liberalism today is all about subverting God's laws and making their own.

Well, you're going to have to blame the Founding Fathers for that one, because it was their express intention.

The problem with "God's Laws" is that we all have differing beliefs about God and His laws. Because of that, what you're really supporting here is not God but theocracy and the rule of a single religion (like Catholicism in the middle ages), and because Jesus Himself was opposed to theocratic rule (he was executed for blasphemy, remember), my point stands.

BTW, please find me a single passage in the entire Bible which expressly prohibits abortion. I certainly don't believe it's something that Jesus would have approved of, but permitting sinners to sin of their own accord is not a sin in itself. Do you understand? You are not responsible for the souls others.
And no one on the pro-choice side is saying it's OK to kill the unborn. What they're saying is that it is not society's place to force that choice through the law.
It's odd that you can understand this concept when it comes to money, but when it's someone's else most personal possession, their own body, it all disappears for you. I won't call you psychotic, but you certainly display a marked lack of empathy. That was Jesus' commandment #2 BTW.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Honestly, i'm not sure what you're arguing for... put your cards on the table, are you saying Jesus would have been a progressive liberal democrat?

I don't know what you mean by collectivist moral authoritaian agenda... which is why I didn't reply.

Ah hell no. Jesus wasn't a progressive liberal democrat. He was more like a political radical fighting non-violently for the rights of a conquered people. Like a Gandhi but cubed and squared. Lots of people talk the talk, but NO ONE has ever walked the walk like Jesus did.

A collectivist moral authoritarian agenda is for one group in a society to impose its moral code on every other group. I think that speaks for itself.

I'll re-iterate my position on the question. Asking what party Jesus would belong to is like asking what the color Green tastes like.

Jesus, was divine. He was God. You're right that nobody has ever done what he's done, because it's literally impossible for anyone to do so. To be one of Jesus' disciples means to obey his laws. The problem with Abortion is that it gives all people an OK to kill the unborn, innocent babies. Liberalism today is all about subverting God's laws and making their own.

Well, you're going to have to blame the Founding Fathers for that one, because it was their express intention.

The problem with "God's Laws" is that we all have differing beliefs about God and His laws. Because of that, what you're really supporting here is not God but theocracy and the rule of a single religion (like Catholicism in the middle ages), and because Jesus Himself was opposed to theocratic rule (he was executed for blasphemy, remember), my point stands.

BTW, please find me a single passage in the entire Bible which expressly prohibits abortion. I certainly don't believe it's something that Jesus would have approved of, but permitting sinners to sin of their own accord is not a sin in itself. Do you understand? You are not responsible for the souls others.
And no one on the pro-choice side is saying it's OK to kill the unborn. What they're saying is that it is not society's place to force that choice through the law.
It's odd that you can understand this concept when it comes to money, but when it's someone's else most personal possession, their own body, it all disappears for you. I won't call you psychotic, but you certainly display a marked lack of empathy. That was Jesus' commandment #2 BTW.

I about lost it when I read the bold...

Pro-choicers are nothing but deranged perverts who find it virtuous to give a woman the right, without reprecussion from the state, to murder an innocent life.

Where is your empathy for the unborn humans who are being slaughtered in the name of convenience? Your ilk is a bunch of sicko's... they're human beings and your saying it's OK to slaughter them at will.

If they could talk, how many do you think would be Ok with being aborted? Lack of empathy my ass, if you had any empathy at all or love of what is right you'd be as outraged against the sins of abortion as much as anyone. You don't give a crap, as long as your life is a little easier.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: magomago
Duwelon what the hell are you taking about? Postpertem ABORTION? Makes no sense. The 'left' doesn't want abortion for all. That is twisting what it really is. When I say I want education for all, I want EVERYONE to get an education. There is no organized effort or even desire to have every female go get abortions! Many people are for CHOICE (like me), but still opposed to abortions! That is ridiculous for you to assume that the 'left' encourages abortions. They want females to have a CHOICE.

Make no mistake, being Pro-choice on abortion means you have no problem with someone choosing to murder the unborn. Saying you're ok with someone killing a baby in the womb but saying you're against it is just delusion at it's worst.

No it isn't. I want EVERYONE to have the choice. If I was put in that position, I would CHOOSE not to get an abortion.

You are of the position that you want NO ONE to have a choice, and are willing to use government to ensure that. So much about people's own choices!

see this:

And no one on the pro-choice side is saying it's OK to kill the unborn. What they're saying is that it is not society's place to force that choice through the law.
It's odd that you can understand this concept when it comes to money, but when it's someone's else most personal possession, their own body, it all disappears for you. I won't call you psychotic, but you certainly display a marked lack of empathy. That was Jesus' commandment #2 BTW.

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Well, lets see how the values of Democrats and Republicans break down today:

Democrats are the party of:

- Abortion for all, the far left wants to allow abortions after the child is fully born.
- Anti - Religious in public places. There is no doubt, Democrats at large want nothing to do with religion in anything deemed "public". They willing indoctrinate our kids into a secular society. Then, when Parents want to take their kids out of public schools and into private or home schooled education, they are met with fierce opposition by Democrats. The let is fiercly anti-Christian more and more each day. It used to be the far left only but now you cannot be a good Democrat without being a secularist in the public square.
- Government is the answer to all problems. This isn't an obvious "would Jesus be against it?" argument, but it really is. Throughout the Bible, God's philosophy of a capable man's direction is clear : if you don't work, you don't eat. The left sets up welfare, social security, etc etc that attempts to avert the will of God. The result? More poor people than ever before, people enslaved to those that promised to help them in the first place and completely dependant on the rest of society.
- Illegal Immigration - do not take a strong stance against illegal immegration. Jesus was a proponent of obeying the law, the Democrats are all about breaking any law that doesn't help them.
- Gay marriage - only the left wants to re-define traditional marriage as between 2 men or 2 women.

Republicans are not perfect, but here's what Republicans are still the party of, or at least the lesser of two evils:

- Abortion outlawed. I think the general consensus is that Abortion to save the mother's life, ie a life for a life, is acceptable but the far right is all about allowing God to decide and live with that decision.
- Shocked by every legislative decision or court order that mandates the removal of traditional, Christian icons from the public square.
- Government is NOT the answer to all problems. Government is essential a society, but individual responsiblity trumps all else. My neighbor is not responsible for my welfare, and any care he gives me should come from his heart, not a government mandate.
- Illegal Immigration - Republicans were the key to defeating that legislature back in 2006 pushed by Democrats and Bush. As a republican, I don't care how many people come to the USA, I just want it to be done through the rule of law.
- Gay marriage - wants to keep marriage as defined as between a man and a woman. The Bible's stance on man on man or woman on woman relationships are clear. The left doesn't care. It's an abomination in God's sight. Homosexual (offenders) will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, the Bible teachers.

The bottom line is though, Democrats want nothing to do with God's definition of morality. Republicans generally do. There are many definitions of a democrat and a republican but if you ask me, most Republicans are generaly more Godfearing and guided by Christian principals where Democrats are generally more secular and guided by their own mob rule and often oppose traditional christian values.

did you vote for George Bush twice? i know most far right Christians such as yourself did, after all he lead on a platform of FEAR just like your god. Jesus would be quite saddened by the blood on those hands, imo. then again that would be considered a sin, so you are in the clear there, just find salvation and be saved. you sir are the sicko, not those who are pro-choice.

Christianity continues to lead to some horrific vile events, just as it has throughout history.

Democrats are compassionate towards ALL fellow humans and believe that science and education lead to progress for all. the next economic boom will be the Green Revolution, something the Republicans have fought tooth and nail for decades. the Democratic party represents educated, cultured, and vibrant people and is a more accurate representation of this great country.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
What I don't understand is that all these hard core Christians who are republicans seem to think that Jesus Christ was a conservative and would be a Republican. I know most, if not all, of religious people are not known for being logical as they're blinded by the faith but the very logic of it puzzles me much.

After all those years of being in chruch, haven't they learned that JC was the revolutionary figure who tried to 'change?' It's the figure who tried to wake up people from living in shitty rules of Old Testament. He was the one who, I believe, is the biggest revolutionary of all time: He raged againt churches that were currupt. He fought for the people who were low class. He fought against the church and those with power. He wasn't someone who was holding a baby all the time talking sweet things. Instead, He was a fighter who stayed with people.

Doesn't that tell those people to, at least, think one more time? Why is that those people who are so in love with JC doesn't see that they're likely to kill JC if he were here today?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mod:
This is not a repost of original thread that got locked. The original thread got locked because I replied saying 'Repost' which meant that I've reposed the same thing as a reply, not a repost of another thread.

Are you a christian even?

Jesus was a bringer of peace or anything like that. Jesus if he live was a war monger, a hate filled person.

-- say what??

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: chess9

I drive by a major Baptist church in my area and it is filled with high dollar SUVs, Caddies, Lincolns, Beemers, Mercedes. Those people are living the life of a Christian, right?

I'm an agnostic for other reasons, but the lives of Christians would do nothing to convince me to convert. To the contrary.


-Robert

Being successful or "blessed" is not a badge of dishonor if things are earned. The bible is full of promise about good harvests and bounty as a result of good character and diligence. The idea people have to be poor to be good people makes no sense. Money was never mentioned as evil - the love of it was. There are quotes that suggest rich people can have a hard time growing because they have wealth that makes them comfortable and ego secure but the answer is to not misuse wealth - not to disown wealth. How could noble poor be helped if we all just bummed around pretending to be too good for commerce?

Just for argument sake lets say you have a point...ok?
Now lets venture a guess as to how much of what they make goes towards...widows and the homeless and the hungry and people with no health insurance???
Or even other Social issues that are upon this great country?

I would say Red dawn is probably more correct than you are!!
Peace!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Well, lets see how the values of Democrats and Republicans break down today:

Democrats are the party of:

- Abortion for all, the far left wants to allow abortions after the child is fully born.
- Anti - Religious in public places. There is no doubt, Democrats at large want nothing to do with religion in anything deemed "public". They willing indoctrinate our kids into a secular society. Then, when Parents want to take their kids out of public schools and into private or home schooled education, they are met with fierce opposition by Democrats. The let is fiercly anti-Christian more and more each day. It used to be the far left only but now you cannot be a good Democrat without being a secularist in the public square.
- Government is the answer to all problems. This isn't an obvious "would Jesus be against it?" argument, but it really is. Throughout the Bible, God's philosophy of a capable man's direction is clear : if you don't work, you don't eat. The left sets up welfare, social security, etc etc that attempts to avert the will of God. The result? More poor people than ever before, people enslaved to those that promised to help them in the first place and completely dependant on the rest of society.
- Illegal Immigration - do not take a strong stance against illegal immegration. Jesus was a proponent of obeying the law, the Democrats are all about breaking any law that doesn't help them.
- Gay marriage - only the left wants to re-define traditional marriage as between 2 men or 2 women.

Republicans are not perfect, but here's what Republicans are still the party of, or at least the lesser of two evils:

- Abortion outlawed. I think the general consensus is that Abortion to save the mother's life, ie a life for a life, is acceptable but the far right is all about allowing God to decide and live with that decision.
- Shocked by every legislative decision or court order that mandates the removal of traditional, Christian icons from the public square.
- Government is NOT the answer to all problems. Government is essential a society, but individual responsiblity trumps all else. My neighbor is not responsible for my welfare, and any care he gives me should come from his heart, not a government mandate.
- Illegal Immigration - Republicans were the key to defeating that legislature back in 2006 pushed by Democrats and Bush. As a republican, I don't care how many people come to the USA, I just want it to be done through the rule of law.
- Gay marriage - wants to keep marriage as defined as between a man and a woman. The Bible's stance on man on man or woman on woman relationships are clear. The left doesn't care. It's an abomination in God's sight. Homosexual (offenders) will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, the Bible teachers.

The bottom line is though, Democrats want nothing to do with God's definition of morality. Republicans generally do. There are many definitions of a democrat and a republican but if you ask me, most Republicans are generaly more Godfearing and guided by Christian principals where Democrats are generally more secular and guided by their own mob rule and often oppose traditional christian values.

IOW, you think that the only issues Jesus cared about were abortion, homosexuality, and illegal immigration.

Thanks for letting us know here that you have never read the Bible in your entire life. I mean this seriously too. Your "if you don't work, you don't eat" proves you never read the words of Jesus once (try reading Matthew 6 and repeating your words again).

What an unbelievable hypocrite you are. Can I assume you're a Pentecostal?

Vic, i know you hate me, and i have been less than nice to you before, and for that I apologize. But you're completely wrong about my post here.

Why would you think that the stuff I posted was the only thing Jesus cared about? Why even bring this up? i don't have a time to go through every issue that's prevalent in our lives, i only mentioned a few...

From this though, you drew the conclusion that i've never read the Bible... believe what you want.

Jesus fed a crowd of thousands on more than one occasion because he had compassion on them. He didn't feed them for their entire lives through miracles performed before them, right? The left-wing welfare state makes prisoners of minorities like Blacks and soon Hispanics if they get their way. Jesus spoke a message to individuals. Think about it.

I'm a hypocrit? In what way were you referring to?

Spelling Police out in force toknight!!!