Jesus and Paul : Peter Jenning reporting.Tonight at 8

[BugsBunny1078]

It seems as if ABC has decided to report some good news for a change!

 

[jpeyton]

WTF is this about and how is it news?

 

[Czesia]

huh??

 

[Chadder007]

They are just copying FOXNews and their Jesus segment.....then again they are all trying to cash in on after the "Passion"

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Chadder007
They are just copying FOXNews and their Jesus segment.....then again they are all trying to cash in on after the "Passion"

Actually, they are trying to cash in on Holy Week and Passover.
ABC started making this years ago.

 

[glen]

But, how was it?

 

[Idex]

Just one complaint...what was up with the music?

 

[hawkeye81x]

I believe this followup to Jennings' first Jesus special was determined quite a while in advance.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: glen
But, how was it?

It was good. Gave a lot of insight into the times and original meanings of things. Also a lot of info on the liberties Paul took with the religion in order to spread it.

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: glen
But, how was it?

It was good. Gave a lot of insight into the times and original meanings of things. Also a lot of info on the liberties Paul took with the religion in order to spread it.

Such as Paul is against homosexuality, whereas Jesus does not even mention it?

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: glen
But, how was it?

It was good. Gave a lot of insight into the times and original meanings of things. Also a lot of info on the liberties Paul took with the religion in order to spread it.

Such as Paul is against homosexuality, whereas Jesus does not even mention it?

Jesus didn't write the bible. To insinuate he advocated homosexuality is a leap. He mentions things he felt should be different within the Jewish religion.The fact that he doesn't mention it would be more of an indicator he wasn't in favor of it to me.

In other words Jesus didn't preach about already commonly accepted Jewish beliefs except the ones he thought should be different..

 

[glen]

Paul is only against it if it is unatural.
Therefore, if you are homosexual, sleeping with the opposite sex is unatural.

What did Jesus say?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So, if you and your neighbor want to engage in consentual behavior, it is fine with Jesus. Any law that disagrees with the so called "Great Commandments" is to be thrown out. Jesus is VERY explicit about this when they ask him, "What about all the old laws?"

 

[StormRider]

I thought it was very interesting. I missed about 45 minutes of it because I had dinner over at my parents and I left around 10:00pm and got back at my place at around 10:25. Then I had to take a crap. So I ended up missing about 40 or 45 minutes.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: glen
Paul is only against it if it is unatural.
Therefore, if you are homosexual, sleeping with the opposite sex is unatural.

What did Jesus say?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So, if you and your neighbor want to engage in consentual behavior, it is fine with Jesus. Any law that disagrees with the so called "Great Commandments" is to be thrown out. Jesus is VERY explicit about this when they ask him, "What about all the old laws?"

If my neigbor is a murderer/theif/udulterer/etc. I should love and forgive him but that make his actions no less wrong.

 

[glen]

If my neigbor is a murderer/theif/udulterer/etc. I should love and forgive him but that make his actions no less wrong.

Right.
But that has nothing to do with shopping at Pottery Barn, or Tea in China.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

It was a humanist view of Christ, but made some very valuable points that I hope people learned

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: glen

If my neigbor is a murderer/theif/udulterer/etc. I should love and forgive him but that make his actions no less wrong.

Right.
But that has nothing to do with shopping at Pottery Barn, or Tea in China.

Jesus was not a free love advocating communist hippie that said anything is ok as long as the participants are ok with it. Please explain to me why you think disagreeing with homosexuality does not conform to those two "commandments". God said those things in the old testament and also condemned homosexuality. Are you saying that Jesus was sent to say "look guys God fvcked up. This is how it should be." Also you are so quick to acknowledge the embellishments of Paul why then could these saying that are found in Mathew not be embellished and taken out of context.

Also Jesus formed his own opinions and may not reflect those of God. He never claimed to speak for him. Secondly why did you choose to drag me into a homosexuality/bible debate?

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: fredtam
Jesus was not a free love advocating communist hippie that said anything is ok as long as the participants are ok with it.

I don't think He is a communist, but he CLEARLY advocates consensual adult behavior.

Originally posted by: fredtam
Please explain to me why you think disagreeing with homosexuality does not conform to those two "commandments".

It is not rejected by them, and clearly can fit into the love your neighbor context. If you neighbor wants to be loved that way, seems like it is fine with Jesus. If you neighbor does not like love like that, then it is not ok. The second commandment CLEARLY allows the "neighbors," rather than Leviticus, to define how they personally want to be treated.

Originally posted by: fredtam
God said those things in the old testament and also condemned homosexuality. Are you saying that Jesus was sent to say "look guys God fvcked up. This is how it should be."

Yes.
Not to say God messed up; but, to say that people have misunderstood.
And, I am sure you know the old laws are simply meant to shepherd folks UNTIL Christ?s arrival.
The nature of God's relationship in the Prophetic religions is clearly in a covenantal way, whether we look at Adam, Noah, Abraham, or Moses. Each has slightly different covenants with God. This really confused people, and even today it does. Repeatedly, Christ tries to make it very clear and simple for people. They get hung up on Leviticus today, and they made the same mistake in Christ?s time on earth. Sort of like yourself - it is about putting different things into your mouth, but the relevance is pertinent:

Originally posted by: The NIV Bible
Matthew 15


Clean and Unclean

1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, 'Honor your father and mother'[1] and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'[2] 5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6he is not to 'honor his father[3] ' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[4] "
10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"
13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[5] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

I think Christ clearly explains that the religious hierarchy has misinterpreted and misused "God's Laws." Not so much that the Laws are wrong, but the humans applying them have done the wrong.

Originally posted by: fredtam
Also you are so quick to acknowledge the embellishments of Paul why then could these saying that are found in Mathew not be embellished and taken out of context.

I agree. Once one decides the bible is not inerrant, one opens up a whole new can of worms. When two parts conflict, which do you throw out? You have to Pray for knowledge.

Originally posted by: fredtam
Also Jesus formed his own opinions and may not reflect those of God. He never claimed to speak for him.

He claimed to be God.
This is a fundamental belief of Christians.
Jesus? opinions = God?s opinions

Originally posted by: fredtam
Secondly why did you choose to drag me into a homosexuality/bible debate?

Well, that is the gist of the difference between Jesus and Paul.
It gets to the heart of the matter:
What spin did Paul put on Jesus? message to help him (Paul) sell it to the world?

Paul is the best salesman for Christ the world has ever known, but he also changed the message some.
Bait and Switch?
Human error?
End justify the means?

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
It seems as if ABC has decided to report some good news for a change!

HAHAH Nobody got this joke? Report "The Good News"?!?!

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
It seems as if ABC has decided to report some good news for a change!

HAHAH Nobody got this joke? Report "The Good News"?!?!

I can't imagine that anyone with the brain power to sign on the net missed that one.

 

[EXman]

They interviewed my old pastor. He's pretty much on every news show. he's a media biatch

 

[boggsie]

Originally posted by: glen
I think Christ clearly explains that the religious hierarchy has misinterpreted and misused "God's Laws." Not so much that the Laws are wrong, but the humans applying them have done the wrong.

Yes; we agree that Jesus did not state that God's Law is wrong and thus, He did not condone casting them aside.

Luke 11:42
"Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.

He isn't giving licence to cast aside God's Law, but he is instructing us to use our Love (agape) of others to guide our observance of the law.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: glen

Originally posted by: fredtam
Jesus was not a free love advocating communist hippie that said anything is ok as long as the participants are ok with it.

I don't think He is a communist, but he CLEARLY advocates consensual adult behavior.

Originally posted by: fredtam
Please explain to me why you think disagreeing with homosexuality does not conform to those two "commandments".

It is not rejected by them, and clearly can fit into the love your neighbor context. If you neighbor wants to be loved that way, seems like it is fine with Jesus. If you neighbor does not like love like that, then it is not ok. The second commandment CLEARLY allows the "neighbors," rather than Leviticus, to define how they personally want to be treated.

Originally posted by: fredtam
God said those things in the old testament and also condemned homosexuality. Are you saying that Jesus was sent to say "look guys God fvcked up. This is how it should be."

Yes.
Not to say God messed up; but, to say that people have misunderstood.
And, I am sure you know the old laws are simply meant to shepherd folks UNTIL Christ?s arrival.
The nature of God's relationship in the Prophetic religions is clearly in a covenantal way, whether we look at Adam, Noah, Abraham, or Moses. Each has slightly different covenants with God. This really confused people, and even today it does. Repeatedly, Christ tries to make it very clear and simple for people. They get hung up on Leviticus today, and they made the same mistake in Christ?s time on earth. Sort of like yourself - it is about putting different things into your mouth, but the relevance is pertinent:

Originally posted by: The NIV Bible
Matthew 15


Clean and Unclean

1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, 'Honor your father and mother'[1] and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'[2] 5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6he is not to 'honor his father[3] ' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[4] "
10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"
13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[5] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

I think Christ clearly explains that the religious hierarchy has misinterpreted and misused "God's Laws." Not so much that the Laws are wrong, but the humans applying them have done the wrong.

Originally posted by: fredtam
Also you are so quick to acknowledge the embellishments of Paul why then could these saying that are found in Mathew not be embellished and taken out of context.

I agree. Once one decides the bible is not inerrant, one opens up a whole new can of worms. When two parts conflict, which do you throw out? You have to Pray for knowledge.

Originally posted by: fredtam
Also Jesus formed his own opinions and may not reflect those of God. He never claimed to speak for him.

He claimed to be God.
This is a fundamental belief of Christians.
Jesus? opinions = God?s opinions

Originally posted by: fredtam
Secondly why did you choose to drag me into a homosexuality/bible debate?

Well, that is the gist of the difference between Jesus and Paul.
It gets to the heart of the matter:
What spin did Paul put on Jesus? message to help him (Paul) sell it to the world?

Paul is the best salesman for Christ the world has ever known, but he also changed the message some.
Bait and Switch?
Human error?
End justify the means?

Well your argument is sort of wasted on me because I am not a christian. I am however a religous history fanatic. First I will tell you that Jesus never said he was God. Secondly you seem to like to quote whatever version of the Bible best fits your argument.
The old laws that were to be discarded had to do with ritual practices and not the basic moral fiber of the Old Testament. Early Christians were nothing more than reformist Jews. When talking of things like Pauls embellishments to spread the religion we are talking about things like circumcision and which foods could be eaten. The Old Testament was still the basis of the religion and in his letters to the churches (where homosexuality is condemned) he is not embellishing but simply informing them what God said about their practices. Remember before anything else Jesus was a Jew and firmly held the beliefs of the Old testament. If anyone is embellishing the Bible to make it more palatable it is you.

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: Idex
Just one complaint...what was up with the music?

Yeah the music ruined it....I stopped watching halfway through. It started annoying me.

 

[LAUST]

is that someone elses job to punish him?