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Jesse Jackson Jr, "The enemy here is the Tenth Amendment", Federalism should "be rooted out root and branch"

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<< Why is it any of the Feds damn business how much money the state of New Jersey gives their high schools? >>

Hmmm.. How about keeping the income tax the same but instead of doling it out to the Feds let each state have it so they can institute their own Healthcare Educational and Infrastructure systems. We can also have State Militias that are under the Federal Governments Authority and each State pays for the Equipment (Weapons and Soldiers pay) Then each State pays the Federal Government an equal amount for its adminstration and defense. Granted this is an overly simplistic plan but give the States morte Autonomy and let each state keep more of the income it produces instead of sharing the wealth among the 50 states.
 


<< I didn't know I had to agree with everyone here to be able to have a conversation. Or should I say kiss butt to be liked. >>

No one is asking that of you, but presenting your ideas in a logical, rational manner instead of slinging insults might help your cause. Respecting other differing opinions wouldn't hurt, either.
 
Excuse me, Mr. Know It All. I didn't know I had to agree with everyone here to be able to have a conversation. Or should I say kiss butt to be liked.

Whatever. At least I have the stones to listen to a viewpoint different from my own and even occasionally change my mind when I'm proven wrong. You're the worst type of coward.
 
All the nice things we take for granted in this country are products of the free market. You can't have your cake and eat it too, if you socialize health care things will be slightly better for the lower class and significantly worse for everyone else. I think health care vouchers are a good idea.

BTW, under this patients bill of rights, people can not only sue their HMOs but they can sue their employer for providing that HMO as well. When are we going to see tort reform?
 


<< Excuse me, Mr. Know It All. I didn't know I had to agree with everyone here to be able to have a conversation. Or should I say kiss butt to be liked.

Whatever. At least I have the stones to listen to a viewpoint different from my own and even occasionally change my mind when I'm proven wrong. You're the worst type of coward. >>



Coward? man you don't anything about me to call me coward. I do listen but the major reason you have a problem with me is you don't like my opinions. Why? Well I am sure you know the reasons better than me. And I didn't have too much of problem with Glenn1's post but it would lead you to believe Jr. said all those things and he didn't. Was it so wrong for me say otherwise? But to some of you it is. Why? I'll say it again and again and again, in your hearts s good portion of you don't want me here because I am everything you want to bash and I just don't sit and listen to the garbage, but instead speak up. I am loud, brash, and sometimes arrogant. I would buy into some the arguements presented but most are based on second hand knowledge and a color based opinion. Many threads quickly go from one discussion to an all out bashing. If its concerning blacks or christians it will usually be a bash fest. Very few of the arguements are based in truth but instead assumption. And becasue I am one of the few who will present a different side, and every story has two sides to it, you punks call a racist, a coward, I get f*cked up emails. Some even with threats to get me banned. I had one clown send an email and you know what he called me and told me that my &quot;kind&quot; wasn't wanted here. Guess what when I tried to do a return email it was undeliverable. Guess he also was a &quot;coward&quot;. And if you think I am lying, one of the people who threaten to get me banned I emailed the mod about it and he told me no one would be able to do that. So since then I have just hit the delete button, when I get them on occasion. You can call me whatever you want and some of it may be true, lol, but you can bet your bottom dollar, a coward I am not. And everything I write I would say to anyone's face as well. When you go to other sections of the board people are just so much fun to talk to. But it seems like the OT forums has a lot of lowlifes. I thought this was America, where a man was entitled to his own opinion. If you ever notice I never ever try to change someone's opinion. I just present a different one. I do no more name calling than anyone else either.
 


<< . And I didn't have too much of problem with Glenn1's post but it would lead you to believe Jr. said all those things and he didn't. >>



I never intended to lead people to the conclusion that Jesse Jr. said everything i put in my post, that's why i listed it as 'Jesse Jr. and others'. I also clearly linked the source so that people could see the quotes for themselves, and get the proper attribution for everything which was said. I didn't falsely attribute any quote of his to someone else, or someone else's to him. Jesse Jr. did say 3 of 4 of the direct quotes that i cited however (with Maxine Waters being the fourth), in particular the two that i cited in my title, that's why he got 'top billing,' such as it is... would it have made more sense for me to have put Maxine Waters in my title rather than Jesse Jr., seeing as only 25% of the quotes were hers, and the other 75% his?

I can assure you that if it had been another person to have made three of four quotes that i cited, i would have listed it differently. If you can suggest a better way to phrase my title or any of my text which is still truthful, i will change it, and i will have no problem with doing that. However, the words were said by Jesse Jr, whether i mention his name in the title or not.
 
Red- there you go getting personal. You got a big mouth. Don't let it write a check your a$$ can't cash. Why is the statement ignorant. Got any reasons. Probably not. That would require an original thought. Lets you out.
 
Classy is right about one thing. It does become a bash fest. Logical points are hard to make when the post begins with &quot;so and so is an idiot,etc.&quot; There is no reason for this. A very intelligent person can have completely different points of view. Right or wrong that view point does not make them an idiot, etc. To post such garbage is your right,but it adds nothing to the forum, in fact it detracts from the debate immensely. Now,let's make nice and have a good clean argument.
 
Red Dawn - obviously i've offended you. If that is true then I apologize. I responed to thread with a logical argument, not personal attacks. I have neither the time nor the desire to continue this bickering. If you will accept my apology fine, if not fine.
 
This morning was day one in my attempt to quit smoking. I posted right after first cup of coffee and I would have killed my Grandmother right then and there for a smoke. I edited my post as it was way overboard.
 
etech - After growing up in Canada and living in the US, I prefer the Canadian medical system. Critics love to cite &quot;overcrowding&quot; stories of the Canadian system. Have you ever investigated the overcrowding in US hospitals that accept medicaid? How familiar are you of the usual practice of refusing service if the patient can't prove they can pay? How about the greater severity of care needed because the cost of early care disuades lower income people from getting care?

The total cost may work out to be less if the government runs it and it is possible to combine public and private solutions to keep it from being 100% government run.

Michael
 


<< etech - After growing up in Canada and living in the US, I prefer the Canadian medical system. Critics love to cite &quot;overcrowding&quot; stories of the Canadian system. Have you ever investigated the overcrowding in US hospitals that accept medicaid? How familiar are you of the usual practice of refusing service if the patient can't prove they can pay? How about the greater severity of care needed because the cost of early care disuades lower income people from getting care?

The total cost may work out to be less if the government runs it and it is possible to compine public and private solutions to keep it from being 100% government run.

Michael >>



My thoughts exactly. I do believe it could it work here and work well. But you might as well be talking to a wall.
 
etech, being a Canadian, and having had to rely on the Canadian Healthcare several times, I know how valuable free health care is. Some hospitals do get overcrowded sometime, but for some people its better to recieve any treatment then none.

Oh yeah, I came here from this thread... so Good luck RED! 😀
 
SSP - You used an incorrect word - &quot;FREE&quot;. That would be misleading.&quot;Taxpayer funded gov't furnished&quot; would be more appropriate. It would only be free to those who don't pay taxes.By the way anyone have mortality rates in Canada to compare quality of service? All I know of Canadian medical service is what I read in the news about people seeking treatment in the U.S. for more severe illnesses due to availibility of treatment in Canada. My main concern is funding insurance for people who can afford it, but choose not to have it.Should we take that &quot;Freedom of choice&quot; away from them?
 
I must be old fashioned or unethical but I was bought up in a single parent home where my mother made $14,000 a year. She did everything she could to provide healthcare. I don't even want to hear people whine about not being able to afford it. My mom gave up anything that she had to so that she could provide healthcare for me. Yes it was rough. Yes when I was a kid I couldn't understand WHY we have to give up so much just so I could see a doctor. BUT I DO NOT THINK UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE IS THE ANSWER.

Just because you are born does not mean everyone else should pay for your healthcare. I think that if people took responsibility for themselves and their family then we would not need government sponsored healthcare. I get pissed already about how much I get taxed, I hate to think what would happen if I had to pay for other people's healthcare.

This is the same type crap that all the worthless people on welfare pull. My mom made next to nothing and raised a child without child support or anyone else's help. I am in college. I have done well. All I hear now are about people that have had it rough and just need a little help getting on their feet. That is bullsh*t. They just want a free handout.

I just think that government health care is a joke. While we decide to do healthcare, I think that everyone born should be provided food for life by the government. FOOD FOR EVERYONE FOR FREE YAYAYAYAYAYA. FOOD IS A RIGHT JUST LIKE HEALTHCARE.....

Jim
 


<< All I hear now are about people that have had it rough and just need a little help getting on their feet. That is bullsh*t. They just want a free handout. >>

If I pay taxes that support Healthcare how am I begging for a free handout? What if your Mammy had 2 or 3 kids? Would she still have been able to afford sending you and your fellow carpet crawlers to see the Doctor? THe poor have HealthCare, it's called Medicare and Medicaid. It's the Lower Middle Class who is going without, and they pay their taxes, some of which goes to support Rogue States like Isreal.
 
Red Dawn I respect you, I know what your thoughts are on the subject and I don't totally disagree BUT the government already does not tax the lower income familys much. So they would basically be getting free healthcare.

I don't mind the idea of the government trying to give people breaks by CUTTING taxes more so that people can provide for themselves but I don't think increasing taxes so that everyone can have the government pay for it is the right path.

People should be able to get healthcare but I do NOT think it is my responsibility to pay for someone else's healthcare.

BY ALL MEANS, cut foreign aid. I can deal with that. Cut foreign add and lower taxes more.

BTW Red Dawn I would have considered myself Lower Middle Class simply because WE DID pay for everything we had. It may not have been a lot but we payed for it.

Anothing thing. My mom made the choice to have me. She also made the CHOICE not to have another kid. If you choose to have 2 or 3 kids when you don't make any money then that is no one's fault but your own. Take responsiblity.

Jim
 


<< If I pay taxes that support Healthcare how am I begging for a free handout? What if your Mammy had 2 or 3 kids? Would she still have been able to afford sending you and your fellow carpet crawlers to see the Doctor? >>



Another case of people living beyond their means, I would say. Health Care costs money, as does anything else in this world. If you don't have enough money to pay for it, then don't have so many kids. Seems only logical to me.

The government supporting such ignorance and gluttony is far from the solution...
 


<< Anothing thing. My mom made the choice to have me. She also made the CHOICE not to have another kid >>

I don't have the answer,I doubt anyone here does. But if one child in America, hell one person in America who dies because they can't afford to see a Doctor or get the proper treatment due to lack of money so others can afford a new SUV every other year then that is Fscked up and totally uncivilized. Of course with the &quot;Me First&quot; attitude that prevails in this country one shouldn't expect much.
 


<< The government supporting such ignorance and gluttony is far from the solution... >>

Ignoring the needs of a few to allow the others the ability to live the high life is gluttony. If your Medical needs are paid for by taxes then that's money you don't have to shell out yourself. A child didn't ask to be born into poverty. What is funny is that the same people who are against abortion are also against helping those children when they are born.

Actually I find myself being the Devils advocate more than expressing my true feelings. I believe that something needs to be done. I'm not so sure raising taxes to pay for Healthcare is the answer (I did say that I don't have the real answer for this problem) I do know that the poor get free healthcare and that they pasy no taxes at all. So we are already paying for other's health care with out taxes. It's the lower Middle class who do help pay for them yet get none of the benefits themselves. Of course we want a Smaller Federal Government. Maybe we should let each state handle this situation and the Welfare situation by letting each State keep much more of the taxes instead of giving it to the Feds. Maybe each state should be responsible for every social program and just pay the Fed's for Defense and maintaining the the Federal Govcernment. That way rich States like California (were I live) will benefit more from our prosperity and our citizens will enjoy the fruits of their labor. I'm willing to bet that if each state were to pay an equal amount of Federal taxers instead of taxes proportionate to their income and population, we here in the Golden State would be able to have better health care, education and living conditions. Of course those in the impoverished States would suffer but that's their problem. Why should we have to pay for their schools, Welfare,etc..?
 


<< Ignoring the needs of a few to allow the others the ability to live the high life is gluttony. If your Medical needs are paid for by taxes then that's money you don't have to shell out yourself. A child didn't ask to be born into poverty. What is funny is that the same people who are against abortion are also against helping those children when they are born. >>



I don't see how you can say that. You think these people &quot;living the high life&quot; didn't work for their money? Tax money has to come from somewhere. It's coming out of all of our paychecks, so in the end we all are &quot;shelling it out&quot;.

True, it's not the child's fault if it's born into poverty--it's the parents' fault. I guess it's too much to ask for a little responsibility and sensibility in this day and age.
 
Red Dawn,

It tends to seem like you support people not being responsible for themselves. By providing healthcare for all the people that make TERRIBLE decisions in their life, it only will create more people doing it.

I am sorry but anyone CAN AFFORD healthcare. Maybe they are too good to get a job at Mcdonalds but they can afford it. They will have to give up their alcohol, cigarettes, and other luxuries that they have but they CAN afford it. Hell, most jobs offer healthcare now. My mom now makes a WHOOPING $12 an hour after 10 years at the job but last year she got health insurance. She pays for it but she has it.

The only reason some child goes without healthcare if because his/her parents decided to waste money on other things. Now is that the child's fault??? NO but it is the parents fault. I don't want to condone this type of attitude by then giving them everything.

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS THE ANSWER.

Another thing, I am not a &quot;ME FIRST&quot; person. I help my neighbors when I am at my mom's home. I give a lot back to the community but I WILL not, CAN not, support something that lets people just write off personal responsibility.

Jim
 
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