Jeremy Clarkson Hates America

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Hey, I like the Cobra, I've owned a few Mustangs myself over the years and I've driven a couple Mustang Cobras. They are fun cars and I'm not knocking them at all.

The show was very entertaining though. If nothing else it challenges Americans to make better cars...which may not be enough now. Personally, I think we need to be making better and more efficient cars.

I'd have to agree in general though. I admit I fail to keep in mind that the 03 SVT Cobra is an exceptional vehicle and not the general rule for American cars... while others fail to remember that Americans like value and manufactures have a bottom line to work with or the vehicle will not sell. Cars like the Cobra and Z06 show that Americans DO know how to build quality vehicles when they want to... they just don't. (quantity over quality, what the majority of the American market wants).

I'd like to see a mass production Malibu SS compete with a M3 or something, I'm pretty sure that is the kind of thing most people are talking about with regards to the general American automotive sector (just normal cars not counting special vehicles like the Z06, SVT, etc).

I think it's improving. The other day I saw a commercial for some SUV, it was all slick, gorgeous paint job and luxurious leather interior,and had all these gadgets like HID headlights and mirrors that follow your eyes and auto adjust, etc...

I'm rolling my eyes thinking it's another Lexus/BMW...

It was a Buick!

And you've got the Caddilac on the 'Ring, and all that stuff.

Ford announced the next US Focus is going to be based on the Euro Focus (FINALLY... damn), etc...

I've driven the new Impala SS. There is no way that car even come close to comparing to an M3. Maybe the Cadillac CTS...I don't know, I haven't driven that car. The auto rags seem to rave about it but I think it looks kind of meh.

SUVs are dead. You aren't going to market vehicles that get 15mpg to the masses anymore. Not with gas at $4/gallon.

 

[PricklyPete]

If you're taking Jeremy Clarkson seriously, then you're watching this programs with the wrong attitude. First of all, his immediate audience gets a laugh out of making fun of the "colonies" as he puts it. Also, his shows are based completely on being ridiculous...and that's why they are fun. They rarely do competitions that make sense...they do them for the comic value they will provide.

Just watch the show to enjoy the humor and the ridiculousness. If you're looking for consistency...look elsewhere to something boring. I like Top Gear because it is a show that I can watch and enjoy with my wife while still getting my car fix.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Well, so a 19 year old Lincoln TC leaked faster than the Jag but a lot depends on the
condition and up keep of the door gaskets, my guess is the Jag got WAY better care
than the TC, test=FAIL

The 68 Mustang GT had disc brakes in the front NOT 4 wheel drum, the stang he was
using for the test was a fastback with a big block dropped in, not an original! Test=FAIL

OK, give GM 200K more for the Vette and I think they could quiet it down some
just like the Ferrari...TEST=FAIL

Yea, the Lotus beat the stang fair and square but how many drivers are skilled
enough to use it?? not to mention it's too hideous to drive to a rockfight, TEST= push.

Lemons, yup big 3 has pushed enough of 'em on us but wait, what was the worst mass-
produced car in the world...hmm..OK, it's the YUGO and oh, those British-leyland POS
cars, (MG, Triumph ) you know, the ones that handled great but whose electrical
systems even Tesla couldn't repair, an unending suffrage to those unfortunate enough
to buy one...

If it's the one I'm thinking, the Mustang did a fairly good job shaking the Lotus and keeping him from passing... it took like 90% of the race for the Lotus to finally dart by in 1 turn, and even then the disadvantaged Mustang still hugged it's ass... but that was enough to say Lotus rules Ford sucks... right...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh-4MSDbwFY

Keep in mind thats a F355 Challenge, a specially prepped non street legal track car vs a pretty much bone stock production 03 Cobra.

Is the Ferrari better? Of course it is, it better be! But to say the American car is junk because it's Ford? Pure and simple bias, hate, and stereotypical anti-American bashing and Euro-snobbery.

Also note it wasn't even the corners that the Cobra lost ground, but the straights.... stock Cobra is only 390 HP... a $100 pulley would change that.

The ultimate point though? The average Joe can afford a 03 Cobra easily (and to some extent Corvettes, etc). The bashers cannot afford the superior F355 Challenge/Veyron/<insert supercar of choice>. So in the end, on the street, who actually has the better car at the end of the day? The one who actually owns and drives the car he talks about, or the one who flaunts a car in a magazine that he will never own that is marginally better for 10x the price (talk about law of diminishing returns).

If you watch the segment you'll hear all the arguments for why he considers the Cobra to be an opportunity lost. The Rouche he liked. Watch the clip and find out why.

The Lotus didn't just lead for 10% of the lap. Again, watch the clip. The only place the Cobra won was off the line grunt and so it should. After that it was between driver and the tool they had to use. The Cobra driver was being so pressured into the corners by the Lotus he couldn't keep the Cobra on the track. The Lotus was held up, not slower.

The Exige S has 218hp. The Cobra has ~500hp(arguable point, apparently it's less). The comparison was there to show that a great car is not defined by the size of it's engine or numbers you can throw around in a bar argument. There is a price difference of ~$20k (30% higher for Lotus) between the two, but it's not night and day. Calling people 'bashers' for calling it as they see it sounds like you just don't like the result.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Hey, I like the Cobra, I've owned a few Mustangs myself over the years and I've driven a couple Mustang Cobras. They are fun cars and I'm not knocking them at all.

The show was very entertaining though. If nothing else it challenges Americans to make better cars...which may not be enough now. Personally, I think we need to be making better and more efficient cars.

I'd have to agree in general though. I admit I fail to keep in mind that the 03 SVT Cobra is an exceptional vehicle and not the general rule for American cars... while others fail to remember that Americans like value and manufactures have a bottom line to work with or the vehicle will not sell. Cars like the Cobra and Z06 show that Americans DO know how to build quality vehicles when they want to... they just don't. (quantity over quality, what the majority of the American market wants).

I'd like to see a mass production Malibu SS compete with a M3 or something, I'm pretty sure that is the kind of thing most people are talking about with regards to the general American automotive sector (just normal cars not counting special vehicles like the Z06, SVT, etc).

I think it's improving. The other day I saw a commercial for some SUV, it was all slick, gorgeous paint job and luxurious leather interior,and had all these gadgets like HID headlights and mirrors that follow your eyes and auto adjust, etc...

I'm rolling my eyes thinking it's another Lexus/BMW...

It was a Buick!

And you've got the Caddilac on the 'Ring, and all that stuff.

Ford announced the next US Focus is going to be based on the Euro Focus (FINALLY... damn), etc...

Originally posted by: exdeath
...anti-American bashing and Euro-snobbery...

*muffled lol*

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Hey, I like the Cobra, I've owned a few Mustangs myself over the years and I've driven a couple Mustang Cobras. They are fun cars and I'm not knocking them at all.

The show was very entertaining though. If nothing else it challenges Americans to make better cars...which may not be enough now. Personally, I think we need to be making better and more efficient cars.

I'd have to agree in general though. I admit I fail to keep in mind that the 03 SVT Cobra is an exceptional vehicle and not the general rule for American cars... while others fail to remember that Americans like value and manufactures have a bottom line to work with or the vehicle will not sell. Cars like the Cobra and Z06 show that Americans DO know how to build quality vehicles when they want to... they just don't. (quantity over quality, what the majority of the American market wants).

I'd like to see a mass production Malibu SS compete with a M3 or something, I'm pretty sure that is the kind of thing most people are talking about with regards to the general American automotive sector (just normal cars not counting special vehicles like the Z06, SVT, etc).

I think it's improving. The other day I saw a commercial for some SUV, it was all slick, gorgeous paint job and luxurious leather interior,and had all these gadgets like HID headlights and mirrors that follow your eyes and auto adjust, etc...

I'm rolling my eyes thinking it's another Lexus/BMW...

It was a Buick!

And you've got the Caddilac on the 'Ring, and all that stuff.

Ford announced the next US Focus is going to be based on the Euro Focus (FINALLY... damn), etc...

I've driven the new Impala SS. There is no way that car even come close to comparing to an M3. Maybe the Cadillac CTS...I don't know, I haven't driven that car. The auto rags seem to rave about it but I think it looks kind of meh.

SUVs are dead. You aren't going to market vehicles that get 15mpg to the masses anymore. Not with gas at $4/gallon.

Just out of interest, why does a SUV have to get 15mpg?

The Prado here, which is a big 8 seater, full ladder frame, full-time AWD and proper transfer case low-range 4WD with superb off-road capability, gets almost 26mpg combined with the turbo diesel...

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: shabby
Pretty funny but he seems to be spot on. The big 3's main priority is hp while handling takes a back seat. There might be a handful of cars that actually handle decently from the factory.
Gm seems to be pimping a lot more cars than can run around the ring recently.

Most Americans have no opportunity to use handling.

What are you talking about, potholes need to be avoided... thats where a good handling car comes in.

Grasping at straws much? You don't need to slalom at 80 mph and pull 1.3g skidpad and 6 minute Nürburgring lap times to dodge a pothole at 25 mph... yet thats the kind of performance the "handling in the twisties" crowd would have you believe is necessary for the average American street car, or else it sucks and is only good for straight lines.

American streets are organized N to S and E to W with stoplights every 1000+ feet. Thats why acceleration and straight line performance is valued more than handling, especially when handling as defined by most invariably means "weak engine". In island countries like Japan and Britain, covered in winding mountain roads, I can see how power is seldom capable of being used and why handling is valued more.

But there isn't anything wrong with having a car with lots of straight line power that can also handle, but most people assume that if a car has more than 150 HP it automatically can't turn, which is BS. You can have your cake and eat it to in that regard.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: shabby
Pretty funny but he seems to be spot on. The big 3's main priority is hp while handling takes a back seat. There might be a handful of cars that actually handle decently from the factory.
Gm seems to be pimping a lot more cars than can run around the ring recently.

Most Americans have no opportunity to use handling.

What are you talking about, potholes need to be avoided... thats where a good handling car comes in.

Grasping at straws much?

American streets are organized N to S and E to W with stoplights every 1000+ feet. Thats why acceleration and straight line performance is valued more than handling, especially when handling as defined by most invariably means "weak engine". In island countries like Japan and Britain, covered in winding mountain roads, I can see how power is seldom capable of being used and why handling is valued more.

But there isn't anything wrong with having a car with lots of straight line power that can also handle, but most people assume that if a car has more than 150 HP it automatically can't turn, which is BS. You can have your cake and eat it to in that regard.

Come to SoCal and drive around in the mountains and foothills, it's not like that at all here, well, except in the city and there is no way you could drag race light to light in areas like Los Angeles...not if you value your driver's license anyway.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: shabby
Pretty funny but he seems to be spot on. The big 3's main priority is hp while handling takes a back seat. There might be a handful of cars that actually handle decently from the factory.
Gm seems to be pimping a lot more cars than can run around the ring recently.

Most Americans have no opportunity to use handling.

What are you talking about, potholes need to be avoided... thats where a good handling car comes in.

Grasping at straws much?

American streets are organized N to S and E to W with stoplights every 1000+ feet. Thats why acceleration and straight line performance is valued more than handling, especially when handling as defined by most invariably means "weak engine". In island countries like Japan and Britain, covered in winding mountain roads, I can see how power is seldom capable of being used and why handling is valued more.

But there isn't anything wrong with having a car with lots of straight line power that can also handle, but most people assume that if a car has more than 150 HP it automatically can't turn, which is BS. You can have your cake and eat it to in that regard.

Come to SoCal and drive around in the mountains and foothills, it's not like that at all here, well, except in the city and there is no way you could drag race light to light in areas like Los Angeles...not if you value your driver's license anyway.

I'll never live in SoCal, I prefer to live in the United States.

As long as you aren't speeding or laying rubber and breaking traction (ie: exhibition), there isn't anything on the law books that states a minimum time it must take for you to reach the speed limit... if you have a fast accelerating vehicle, the other person doesn't have a chance, and you've not broken any laws or endangered anyone.

It's not a ' race' if you accelerate to the posted limit in a short time without any sort of exhibition and the other car is nowhere near next to you... if that was the case then anyone could be cited for street racing every time you took off at the normal capability of your vehicle from a light and pulled away faster than a city bus in the next lane over... )

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: shabby
Pretty funny but he seems to be spot on. The big 3's main priority is hp while handling takes a back seat. There might be a handful of cars that actually handle decently from the factory.
Gm seems to be pimping a lot more cars than can run around the ring recently.

Most Americans have no opportunity to use handling.

What are you talking about, potholes need to be avoided... thats where a good handling car comes in.

Grasping at straws much?

American streets are organized N to S and E to W with stoplights every 1000+ feet. Thats why acceleration and straight line performance is valued more than handling, especially when handling as defined by most invariably means "weak engine". In island countries like Japan and Britain, covered in winding mountain roads, I can see how power is seldom capable of being used and why handling is valued more.

But there isn't anything wrong with having a car with lots of straight line power that can also handle, but most people assume that if a car has more than 150 HP it automatically can't turn, which is BS. You can have your cake and eat it to in that regard.

Come to SoCal and drive around in the mountains and foothills, it's not like that at all here, well, except in the city and there is no way you could drag race light to light in areas like Los Angeles...not if you value your driver's license anyway.

I'll never live in SoCal, I prefer to live in the United States.

As long as you aren't speeding or laying rubber and breaking traction (ie: exhibition), there isn't anything on the law books that states a minimum time it must take for you to reach the speed limit... if you have a fast accelerating vehicle, the other person doesn't have a chance, and you've not broken any laws or endangered anyone.

It's not a ' race' if you accelerate to the posted limit in a short time without any sort of exhibition and the other car is nowhere near next to you... if that was the case then anyone could be cited for street racing every time you took off at the normal capability of your vehicle from a light and pulled away faster than a city bus in the next lane over... )

Try accelerating away from a cop at the maximum rate your car can go without breaking traction and see if he pulls you over for it.

Oh, and like it or not, California is vital to the economy of the United States.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: shabby
Pretty funny but he seems to be spot on. The big 3's main priority is hp while handling takes a back seat. There might be a handful of cars that actually handle decently from the factory.
Gm seems to be pimping a lot more cars than can run around the ring recently.

Most Americans have no opportunity to use handling.

What are you talking about, potholes need to be avoided... thats where a good handling car comes in.

Grasping at straws much?

Your sarcasm meter is broken...