They hung nooses on school property, not their own. They did so in order to provoke black students after black students sat under the "white tree". This is akin to the KKK burning a cross. There should be penalization for this.
The black kids who beat the shit out of this guy also deserve to be punished for assault, but I highly doubt they were trying for murder. Maybe they were, I dunno. These black kids should ALSO be charged with a hate crime.
If I sat under a "christian tree" at school (if I were still in school) and the next day, some neo-nazi has put a swastika under it, I would expect school retaliation against them. I wouldn't try to fight them, however.
The black kids who beat the shit out of this guy also deserve to be punished for assault, but I highly doubt they were trying for murder. Maybe they were, I dunno. These black kids should ALSO be charged with a hate crime.
If I sat under a "christian tree" at school (if I were still in school) and the next day, some neo-nazi has put a swastika under it, I would expect school retaliation against them. I wouldn't try to fight them, however.
Had the nooses had dolls of black people wrung around them I might agree they should be called out for a hate crime but just a noose? It was in bad taste what they did but it in no way is equal to giving somebody a life threatening beating to someone not even involved.
You are over simplifying this case. A lot more happened in between the nooses in the tree and the 6 on 1 beating. Go back to the first page of this thread and look at the links that outline the timeline of events that led up to the 6 on 1 beating. The black kids were not the first to resort to violence over the issue but they are being penalized much more heavily than the white kid who broke a beer bottle over a black kids head in an earlier turn of events. The white kid who was beat by the 6 black kids underwent 2 hours of hospital treatment and was released and even attended a school function later that evening. And they are charging the 6 who were involved with trying to "beat him to death?" It's not about that they should not suffer some punishment. It was wrong. Everybody involved in this whole thing is wrong about so many things on so many levels. . .black or white. But the argument here is that the law is that justice is being applied in a biased and uneven manner.
Who said it was equal to a life threatening beating? I said they should be penalized, not charged with murder.
Also, I said that the black kids should be charged with a hate crime.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
Legally, you charge someone with attempted murder if they inflicted injury with the intent to cause serious bodily injury or death. They didn't have to want to kill him, just to want to seriously injur him, in a manner that could result in death. If they all punched him and then kicked him when he was on the ground, that would be enough for attempted murder.
Ex. You want to beat someone up with a hammer, but you only intend to break his shoulder. You swing at his shoulder, he dodges, and you hit him in the head and he ends up in the hospital. Even though you didn't mean to kill him, you can be charged with attempted murder.
Starbuck1975
Lifer
- Jan 6, 2005
- 14,698
- 1,909
- 126
I am glad that this Jena situation is getting so much media attention and press coverage...because it is exposing the racism that still exists on both sides of the fence.
By hanging nooses on that school yard tree, those white kids evoked images of lynch mob hangings of blacks that occurred up to, during, and even after the Civil Rights movement...while arguably covered by free speech, this action certainly created a hostile and threatening environment, and would obviously cause tensions to rise and anger to spill over...the school had a number of different options for dealing with those responsible...expulsion is the most obvious...community service and counseling are others.
Media reports conflict on the chain of events that led to the white kid getting beat up, but regardless, that 6 black kids beat up on a white kid is certainly not the appropriate response....they committed a hate crime in response to a hate crime.
That bus loads of protestors are descending upon Jena also illustrates the misdirected, race card agenda of the contemporary Civil Rights movement...these protestors, in claiming that these black kids are innocent, are in essence justifying violence as a suitable and reasonable response to racism...the same line of BS we heard to justify the LA riots after the Rodney King verdicts came out.
Yes racism still exists in this country...both blacks and whites are guilty of it...but it only seems to qualify as racism when it involves white on black ignorance.
By hanging nooses on that school yard tree, those white kids evoked images of lynch mob hangings of blacks that occurred up to, during, and even after the Civil Rights movement...while arguably covered by free speech, this action certainly created a hostile and threatening environment, and would obviously cause tensions to rise and anger to spill over...the school had a number of different options for dealing with those responsible...expulsion is the most obvious...community service and counseling are others.
Media reports conflict on the chain of events that led to the white kid getting beat up, but regardless, that 6 black kids beat up on a white kid is certainly not the appropriate response....they committed a hate crime in response to a hate crime.
That bus loads of protestors are descending upon Jena also illustrates the misdirected, race card agenda of the contemporary Civil Rights movement...these protestors, in claiming that these black kids are innocent, are in essence justifying violence as a suitable and reasonable response to racism...the same line of BS we heard to justify the LA riots after the Rodney King verdicts came out.
Yes racism still exists in this country...both blacks and whites are guilty of it...but it only seems to qualify as racism when it involves white on black ignorance.
Because silly. Blacks are not racists.
If that dipshit Al Sharpton wants to improve racial tensions, he needs to stop stoking the flames of it.
The death of MLK Jr. was a step back for equality. The continuing existence of Al Sharpton is a step back for equality. Sharpton doesn't want equality, he wants supremecy.
Am I the only person that thinks that a crime is a crime, and labeling it as a "Hate Crime" is counter productive because it forces even more divisions on society?
Atomic Playboy
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2007
- 16,432
- 1
- 81
The fact that it took 10 or so replies for anyone to even mention the free speech issue with the nooses is a sad testament to our state as a nation. Clearly the nooses were an expression of free speech. The speech was hateful and hurtful, but so is using a racial slur (which, by the way, is not illegal). Freedom of speech applies primarily to offensive speech (because no one wants to prohibit inoffensive speech). The white children were expressing an unpopular idea, invoking a horrible point in our nation's history where blacks were lynched by whites. We can venture a guess as to their motives, but I'd personally chalk it up to being young and ignorant (I myself used to draw swastikas on things before my Jewish mother taught me about the usage of the symbol by the Nazis; that straightened me out real quick).
There are problems with the free speech angle here though. The act occured on school grounds. That nullifies free speech real fast, because it's private property. The students could easily be charged with vandalism or something similar, and probably should have been. I would've recommended the children be required to undergo some sort of educational "sensitivity training" type exercise that examines the history of lynching and the culture of racial violence in the South, something that may change their minds about deciding to use these symbols.
The black children responded in the way that children will when confronted with something they hate; they lash out. It's no surprise that the black children beat up a white child, but the use of racist symbology does not excuse their crime. Attempted murder? Absolutely ridiculous charge. They beat up a student, he was hospitalized, clearly a case of aggravated assault. But attempted murder is too extreme. These children need to be disciplined so they learn that violent reactions are not acceptable. The white children who hung the noose should still be required to undergo education about why hanging nooses should be avoided, and the consequences that can come from it.
Sharpton and his ilk are a necessary evil. He is an appalling hypocrite, defending black people who are guilty of the most heinous crimes, while rallying against white people who are innocent. But he can bring media attention to situations like this, which showcase the disparity between whites and blacks that still exists in our justice system. We can only fix these problems if we recognize they exist, and by bringing media coverage, Sharpton helps bring this to national attention. He's still too passionate to be objective (hence his stance in the Duke lacrosse team case), and he's often a loud, blustering imbecile, but at least he occasionally gets one right.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
From my understanding, what we have is a fairly small incident built into a huge mountain by a grandstanding local DA. Now like the Duke DA who got disbarred, the local DA is paying the price and will likely back down. Yes there may has been a basic misdemeanor, immature High school kids get into this kind of mischief all the time, but to escalate that into attempted murder is absurd.
Hopefully all sides in Jena will learn something. Playing the race card and politics seldom mix well anywhere. Cooler heads will prevail in the end.
Hopefully all sides in Jena will learn something. Playing the race card and politics seldom mix well anywhere. Cooler heads will prevail in the end.
Read more of the details of the whole story and see if you still feel the same. The intent of the nooses in the tree were was racially motivated in this case. The message they were meant to convey was loud and crystal clear. If you actually knew what the nooses had been hung up in the tree in response to, you would realize this.
I agree totally. A crime is a crime, regardless of what motivated it. Hate, in and of itself, is not a crime. The things you may do as a result of hatred can definitely be crimes but those crimes already have names. . .Assault, battery, murder, etc. . .
"Hate crime" is an ill conceived poorly coined term.
Even justice would be to hang all seven from that tree.
That will go a long way in stopping future demonstrations.
I don't think it's about them being innocent. It's about the sentences handed down to the black kids being much harsher and unfairly biased compared to what happened to the white kids. Again, read all the facts of the whole story.
Please, get real. . .the kids who put those nooses in that tree knew full well the message that they were conveying and it was with premeditated and malicious intent. They were fully cognizant of the symbolic significance of the symbols they chose to iconify their message. That message was, "The only way black people belong under this tree is if they are hanging from one of these." Don't try to act like those kids didn't understand the significance of the symbols they used to relay that message.
Regardless. . .even though the 6 kids who beat up the white kid were provoked, whoever resorts to violence first just proves the other's point. But the punishment here is too severe. The kid they beat was in the hospital for treatment for 2 hours then went home and even attended a school function later in the evening. How do you get attempted murder from that? Way overboard.
Let's not forget that nooses are a murder tool. While they probably weren't going to kill any of the Black kids that sat under the tree, they did hang up murder "threats" in the tree.
It's the same as why doing the knife slit motion with your finger to a person can be construed as a death threat. The majority of the people who do that won't go on to kill the person they direct the motion to. But it's still a death threat and it's still illegal.
It's the same as why doing the knife slit motion with your finger to a person can be construed as a death threat. The majority of the people who do that won't go on to kill the person they direct the motion to. But it's still a death threat and it's still illegal.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
No, I think you were right actually. The whole mess is getting too much for me while at work
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six
HomerJS
Lifer
- Feb 6, 2002
- 39,354
- 32,861
- 136
I think everyone knows how fvcked up this is. The problem was caused by school and town officials allowing openly racist and threating behavior until tempers got out of control.
The solution is to get everyone involved in the room and say look, everyone here screwed up and all involved will be found guilty of assault and put on probation. If they keep out of trouble for 1 year their records will be expunged.
The solution is to get everyone involved in the room and say look, everyone here screwed up and all involved will be found guilty of assault and put on probation. If they keep out of trouble for 1 year their records will be expunged.
rpanic
Golden Member
- Dec 1, 2006
- 1,896
- 7
- 81
But don?t the noses come down to just a message even if they were wrong and hateful? I don?t see how this excuses in any way 6 guys beating up and kicking a guy in the head till he passed out.
At my school there was a area that only seniors would hang out and if freshmen went over there they would throw them in the trash. I know its not exactly the same but I am sure if 6 freshmen went over and kicked a senior in the head tell he passed out they would be screwed.
Nothing justifies getting ganged up on and having you head kicked tell you are knocked out.
At my school there was a area that only seniors would hang out and if freshmen went over there they would throw them in the trash. I know its not exactly the same but I am sure if 6 freshmen went over and kicked a senior in the head tell he passed out they would be screwed.
Nothing justifies getting ganged up on and having you head kicked tell you are knocked out.
Again. . .It wasn't like the nooses magically appeared in the tree one day and then the next day 6 black kids beat up a white kid. A lot happened before and in between. This is a one thing led to another that led to another type escalation that took place over months.
Yes, the nooses were just a message. An ignorant and hateful one. The poor tree they were hung from suffered the worst fate of anyone. . .it is now firewood. An innocent defenseless bystander had to die because of human ignorance. But this school was pretty segregated to begin with by the sounds of it after reading a lot of literature about the circumstances surrounding this case. And it was segregated by choice, and that's how it pretty much stayed. Until a black kid at a school assembly (maybe jokingly) decided to break the status-quo by asking the principal, in front of the whole school, if it was ok for he and his friends to sit under "the white tree." From there, things just went downhill fast. I am begging everybody to read the full timeline of events that led up to where we are now with this case before jumping to any rash judgements about who was right and wrong in this case. Because once you do, it is pretty obvious that neither party is free from blame in this town but it does seem the DA tried to treat the black kids much harsher than the white kids.
But you are right. . .no words or message should ever justify a 6 on 1 man beating but you cannot excuse the pointless hatred that leads to one group of kids not letting another group of kids sit under the shade of a tree because of the color of their skin either. Until we stop tolerating this kind of ignorance as a society, it will never stop. The only thing we cannot afford to tolerate in America is intolerance itself.
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