Java sucks.

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: torpid
Yeah but one irritating thing is that some classes in .net use .Length and some use .Count ... argh

Arrays have a length, and a collection has a count. It's pretty obvious when you consider what they are: a contiguous allocation of memory (array), or a collection. It wouldn't make any sense to have a collection length, and it wouldn't really make sense for an array to have a count.

 

[stev0]

Originally posted by: Capone
I'm taking both VB and Java this semester. Everything in VB is so much easier it is to work with. So far I can't see why someone would use java over VB, other than cost. Yet my Java teacher praises java like it is THE language to know. What am I missing here?

Your java teacher sounds like a jackass, just like mine. And your doing it all backwards, learn C/C++ first, everything else is cake to learn after that.

edit: assembly is so dirty it's not even funny

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Chu
First, are we talking about "old" VB or VB.net? They are COMPLETLY different, with VB.net essentially being C# with bastardized syntax.



Secondly, VB is a tool good for one very specific purpose -- putting together simple GUI based windows applications quickly. If you try to do anything much more complicated then this, you start running into brick walls because VB's notion of an Object is severly underpowered for when you need real OO features.

I would have to disagree. I have not run into a single thing that I cannot do in VB that I could in Java with the exception of cross platforming. Then again, this is jus off the top of my head.


I actually find Java to be kind of appealing in some ways, but I hate it in others. I think the BIGGEST problem is that there is not a good Java IDE. All of them that I have tried are terrible compared to Visual Studio (eclipse and JBuilder). I also don't like how things are not very standardized. I forget the specific examples, but think of controls. In .NET, you always have a Text property for the control's text (Textbox, Label, ComboBox, etc...). In Java, they have different properties for different controls. Not all of them use Text. It is really irritating trying to remember which is which.

I'll stick with C# and VB.NET. They are much easier and nicer to use, IMO.

Not true at all. I use eclipse here at work and we've developed so many applications without any problems. Eclipse is just plain awesome.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: stev0

Originally posted by: Capone
I'm taking both VB and Java this semester. Everything in VB is so much easier it is to work with. So far I can't see why someone would use java over VB, other than cost. Yet my Java teacher praises java like it is THE language to know. What am I missing here?

Your java teacher sounds like a jackass, just like mine. And your doing it all backwards, learn C/C++ first, everything else is cake to learn after that.

I agree with the learning C part first but wanting to learn C++ is such a waste of time. It's a god awful language and has so many issues it's not even funny.

This comes to mind when I think of C++

 

[torpid]

It would make sense in that some items don't make sense to say count and are dervied from a collection.

 

[Pex]

c++ is to java as the united States is to th Pitcairn Islands

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Java sucks even harder when you attempt to framework it for an OS. *cough* Netware *cough*

- M4H

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Since when does a programmer judge a language on how easy it is to use instead of how well the written programs perform their task?

"Oh, well I was going to write this real time autopilot system in C, but since VB is so much EASIER, I think I'll use that."

Those people who think like this should probably go into a field where that sort of crap is accepted and even sought after, like MIS or something, and leave the regular programming to people who are able to evaluate the languages on their technical merits instead of how EASY they are.

Written like a CS major who's never actually worked. In the real world ease of use and application development time = money. The easier a product is to learn and use, and subsequently debug, the better for anybody who has to work on it in the future. Why write something in C++ that might be marginally faster than something written in VB if the C++ app takes 3X as long to write? That will be a tough sell come budget time, don't you think?

The marginally faster part may be important for some apps. But if you are writing a front-end to a db, differences in code execution speed are pretty much irrelevant. If the app has to wait 2 seconds to get 500 records from the db, who cares if it takes 10 ms instead of 5 ms for the code to execute.

Ease and speed of development are very important considerations. Developers need to realize that the company they work for is primarily interested in making money. Sure, there are very good reasons to use other languages. But if you are writing GUI apps for business use, VB can often be the best and cheapest option.

But no, Java does NOT suck. Not every piece of software is a GUI.
Capone,
what you are missing is the fact that Java is a nice clean object oriented language that is perfect for learning the fundamentals of object oriented programming without being overwhelmed by some of the messy details of C++.

 

[Bassyhead]

i know java, c++ and assembly. i think I like java best, probably because I have the most experience with it, though.

 

[Beattie]

Java is nice because it makes everything so easy compared to like C. And I can use it on Windows or my Linux box, or my school's/work's Sun machines, or on my iBook.

 

[Chu]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Chu
First, are we talking about "old" VB or VB.net? They are COMPLETLY different, with VB.net essentially being C# with bastardized syntax.



Secondly, VB is a tool good for one very specific purpose -- putting together simple GUI based windows applications quickly. If you try to do anything much more complicated then this, you start running into brick walls because VB's notion of an Object is severly underpowered for when you need real OO features.

I would have to disagree. I have not run into a single thing that I cannot do in VB that I could in Java with the exception of cross platforming. Then again, this is jus off the top of my head.


I actually find Java to be kind of appealing in some ways, but I hate it in others. I think the BIGGEST problem is that there is not a good Java IDE. All of them that I have tried are terrible compared to Visual Studio (eclipse and JBuilder). I also don't like how things are not very standardized. I forget the specific examples, but think of controls. In .NET, you always have a Text property for the control's text (Textbox, Label, ComboBox, etc...). In Java, they have different properties for different controls. Not all of them use Text. It is really irritating trying to remember which is which.

I'll stick with C# and VB.NET. They are much easier and nicer to use, IMO.

Not true at all. I use eclipse here at work and we've developed so many applications without any problems. Eclipse is just plain awesome.

The hardest project I've ever had to do in java was write a compile to go from java to mips. This project made *HEAVY* use of object orientated features, since in the end everything reduces to nodes in an abstract syntax tree. Using C or C++ for this project would have made things incredibly more complicated with the number of objects floating around, and while I admit I'm not the most adept at VB from what I know VB classes don't have enough features to do everything I needed. Also, about IDE's, both forte and eclipse are wonderful IDE's if you've never tried them.

-Chu

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Chu
First, are we talking about "old" VB or VB.net? They are COMPLETLY different, with VB.net essentially being C# with bastardized syntax.



Secondly, VB is a tool good for one very specific purpose -- putting together simple GUI based windows applications quickly. If you try to do anything much more complicated then this, you start running into brick walls because VB's notion of an Object is severly underpowered for when you need real OO features.

I would have to disagree. I have not run into a single thing that I cannot do in VB that I could in Java with the exception of cross platforming. Then again, this is jus off the top of my head.


I actually find Java to be kind of appealing in some ways, but I hate it in others. I think the BIGGEST problem is that there is not a good Java IDE. All of them that I have tried are terrible compared to Visual Studio (eclipse and JBuilder). I also don't like how things are not very standardized. I forget the specific examples, but think of controls. In .NET, you always have a Text property for the control's text (Textbox, Label, ComboBox, etc...). In Java, they have different properties for different controls. Not all of them use Text. It is really irritating trying to remember which is which.

I'll stick with C# and VB.NET. They are much easier and nicer to use, IMO.

Not true at all. I use eclipse here at work and we've developed so many applications without any problems. Eclipse is just plain awesome.

I was comparing it to Visual Studio. Compared to VS, Eclipse is nothing. VS is so much easier and faster IMO.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Chu
First, are we talking about "old" VB or VB.net? They are COMPLETLY different, with VB.net essentially being C# with bastardized syntax.



Secondly, VB is a tool good for one very specific purpose -- putting together simple GUI based windows applications quickly. If you try to do anything much more complicated then this, you start running into brick walls because VB's notion of an Object is severly underpowered for when you need real OO features.

I would have to disagree. I have not run into a single thing that I cannot do in VB that I could in Java with the exception of cross platforming. Then again, this is jus off the top of my head.


I actually find Java to be kind of appealing in some ways, but I hate it in others. I think the BIGGEST problem is that there is not a good Java IDE. All of them that I have tried are terrible compared to Visual Studio (eclipse and JBuilder). I also don't like how things are not very standardized. I forget the specific examples, but think of controls. In .NET, you always have a Text property for the control's text (Textbox, Label, ComboBox, etc...). In Java, they have different properties for different controls. Not all of them use Text. It is really irritating trying to remember which is which.

I'll stick with C# and VB.NET. They are much easier and nicer to use, IMO.

Not true at all. I use eclipse here at work and we've developed so many applications without any problems. Eclipse is just plain awesome.

I was comparing it to Visual Studio. Compared to VS, Eclipse is nothing. VS is so much easier and faster IMO.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

 

[SaturnX]

whoo! assembly.. I get to write an OS in it for a microprocessor in about a years time....

--Mark

 

[slpaulson]

Be happy you're not writing in assembly.

<== is taking machine level programming this semester.

 

[simms]

I hate C.

 

[Ranger X]

VB is a monkey language. The advantage of VB is that applications can be developed quickly but it's slow and inefficient.

 

[tkdkid]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
I like Java because it is based on C, the holy mother of all languages.



But keep in mind that MS has largely discontinued all Java support. So I would expect its use to diminish rapidly over time.

Lack of Microsoft support will only make java more popular.

 

[tkdkid]

Originally posted by: Ranger X
VB is a monkey language. The advantage of VB is that applications can be developed quickly but it's slow and inefficient.

Slow and inefficient compared to java? That's an interesting thing to say.

 

[helpme]

I have 4 more labs of Assembly on my 68HC11 board In a way it's kinda more fun that C/C++ since you're doing everything 'by hand' so to say.

Want to add two numbers? Where do you want to put them? Oh, you only have 8-bit registers? Sorry, that 16-bit number will have to be added, but you'll have to figure out the best way to do it

 

[DWW]

Originally posted by: simms
I hate C.

You and Beattie seem to dislike C. Why? Its so great

I'd have to say C is my favorite language I've learned so far. PERL comes second heh.

But C itself is so goddamn simple and a small language with not a whole lot of rules.

Read K&R2 and then skim through the first few chapters in C:ARM and you are pretty good to go.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: tkdkid

Originally posted by: Ranger X

VB is a monkey language. The advantage of VB is that applications can be developed quickly but it's slow and inefficient.

Slow and inefficient compared to java? That's an interesting thing to say.

Hmmm, fully compiled language vs. interpreted language.

Maybe Ranger's brain is slow and inefficient.
Or maybe he meant VB vs. C++.

 

[GoHAnSoN]

i say that language wise, JAVA is much better language than C/C++, VB
partly due to JAVA came to birth with OOP in mind.

VB language is teh worst for me....and c/c++ is messy.....java==clean

real world comparision ? there's no comparison, cos java, c, VB, each have their highllight in particular field.

 

[Zugzwang152]

Originally posted by: DWW

Originally posted by: simms

I hate C.

You and Beattie seem to dislike C. Why? Its so great



I'd have to say C is my favorite language I've learned so far. PERL comes second heh.



But C itself is so goddamn simple and a small language with not a whole lot of rules.



Read K&amp;R2 and then skim through the first few chapters in C:ARM and you are pretty good to go.

K &amp; R is a great book, I'm using it this semester for a C class. the text is hard to read for beginners, but the professor does a good job of teaching from it.

 

[DaFinn]

Like others have said, learn C first and go on from there. That's the best way to learn... C rules!
still using some Cobol progs at work, so you all can stop complaining NOW!