Japan: Let's commit suicide together!

[Darien]

TFR = Total Fertility Rate.



To keep a population "constant," a TFR of about 2.1 is needed. (.1 because of deaths occuring before future children have a chance to reproduce). IIRC Japan is < 1.5. The US is around 2.1. (1st world nations don't have a very high TFR. Developing nations, however, are a completely different story)

 

[crazygal]

This is old news...a few years ago a bunch of people met online and killed themselves after meeting in real life. People from all over kill themselves all the time, no need to single out Japan.

 

[Dragnov]

Originally posted by: crazygal
This is old news...a few years ago a bunch of people met online and killed themselves after meeting in real life. People from all over kill themselves all the time, no need to single out Japan.

But America is the best! 😛

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Darien
TFR = Total Fertility Rate. To keep a population "constant," a TFR of about 2.1 is needed. (.1 because of deaths occuring before future children have a chance to reproduce). IIRC Japan is < 1.5. The US is around 2.1. (1st world nations don't have a very high TFR. Developing nations, however, are a completely different story)

ok. I don't see why its such a big deal tho. no one cares about tfr here. If a woman says no kids to a guy that wants them, he either a) say ok b) fight/compromise c) find another woman.

This is old news...a few years ago a bunch of people met online and killed themselves after meeting in real life. People from all over kill themselves all the time, no need to single out Japan.

the 'manner' makes the news now, but its the overall numbers that's the curious issue.

 

[Orsorum]

Isolation, unreasonable societal and parental pressures, and self-loathing are a dark combination. It is difficult when one sees no way out of the abyss. Time crawls, reflexes become sluggish, thoughts become groggy - I find it hard to imagine that life will ever be worth living. "Normal" stimuli, incentives become worthless.

For me, it took time and flat-out perseverence and willpower to keep going. There are times where it is still like that.

I am surprised that so many of you would so readily deride and dismiss so many people. The day I cannot empathize with another is the day I consider myself dead; I would not be myself otherwise.

 

[Darien]

ok. I don't see why its such a big deal tho. no one cares about tfr here. If a woman says no kids to a guy that wants them, he either a) say ok b) fight/compromise c) find another woman.

In Japan, a and b are always possible. c is hard to do when such women are short in supply.


Living in a nation realizing you're stuck in a dead-end job, limited emotional contact/help and with no spouse/family (especially when you're middle-aged and realizing what your life has come to) would probably make people quite depressed.

 

[Miramonti]

Isolation, unreasonable societal and parental pressures, and self-loathing are a dark combination. It is difficult when one sees no way out of the abyss. Time crawls, reflexes become sluggish, thoughts become groggy - I find it hard to imagine that life will ever be worth living. "Normal" stimuli, incentives become worthless.

dayam. fortunately for me no one thought I'd be much so it was hard to disappoint anyone. 😀

sounds like a somewhat superficial culture thats imploding under the weight of unrealistic expectations, like a kid thats expected by the parents to grow up and be a doctor to make them proud, but who perhaps never gets recognized or appreciated as who they really are.

not that people here don't face those things, but it sounds maybe more uptight over there.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Darien

ok. I don't see why its such a big deal tho. no one cares about tfr here. If a woman says no kids to a guy that wants them, he either a) say ok b) fight/compromise c) find another woman.

In Japan, a and b are always possible. c is hard to do when such women are short in supply. Living in a nation realizing you're stuck in a dead-end job, limited emotional contact/help and with no spouse/family (especially when you're middle-aged and realizing what your life has come to) would probably make people quite depressed.

c is hard to do when such women are short in supply.

hmmm, % of men vs. women?

I don't understand why people are so alone there with so many people, altho I guess if communication is really difficult, especially 'openness', then someone can feel lonely no matter how many people are around them.

 

[Darien]

sounds like a somewhat superficial culture thats imploding under the weight of unrealistic expectations

The Japanese are driven to succeed. Quite hard working...right from when they're kids. After "normal" school, they attend even more private schooling. This extra schooling becomes more important when you're in high school because of college entrance exams. (they also take exams to enter HS I believe). Since the aim is to get into a good school, you'd want the best preparation you can get, so a good HS is a must. I believe exams aren't standardized, and each school has their own (at least at the university level) unlike the US, where it's simply SAT/ACT. Unlike in the US, the Japanese are required to have a certain proficiency of a foreign language (= ENGLISH. I don't imagine reading the dictionary is fun) as well as a lot of other crap under their belt when they take these things. So basically it's just harder to get in to college, where the reputation of your school can greatly affect your chances of working in some company.

Business in Japan is starting to change. While previously the goal was to work in a big company that'll take care of you (and where you can pretty much stay for life), now companies are downsizing and there is no longer this stability that people found in the past. With the economy being rather poor, skilled labor is being fired and young, inexperienced people are being hired.

Opportunities for women are also opening up. While on one level this seems beneficial, on the other hand it complicates things. When women marry they're expected to take care of the family and have lots of social obligations to the extended family. Also married women have a harder time of advancing in business, as it is believed they'd have less time/energy to input in a corporation compared to an unmarried woman or male. So it's at a disadvantage for a woman to marry AND/OR have kids. Having children out of wedlock is still looked down upon (moreso than America), so women simply opt to not marry or have kids. There are a bunch of young females out there making this decision. It is the most "rational choice" for them.



I don't see any sign of the Japanese being "superficial." It's just that times are changing and the culture is adjusting. I'd like to see how this turns out and see how the TFR problem is solved. Hopefully by my lifetime. Oh, and you can't forget how crappy their economy is...

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Darien

ok. I don't see why its such a big deal tho. no one cares about tfr here. If a woman says no kids to a guy that wants them, he either a) say ok b) fight/compromise c) find another woman.

In Japan, a and b are always possible. c is hard to do when such women are short in supply. Living in a nation realizing you're stuck in a dead-end job, limited emotional contact/help and with no spouse/family (especially when you're middle-aged and realizing what your life has come to) would probably make people quite depressed.

c is hard to do when such women are short in supply.

hmmm, % of men vs. women?

I don't understand why people are so alone there with so many people, altho I guess if communication is really difficult, especially 'openness', then someone can feel lonely no matter how many people are around them.

he's thinking of china 😛 i'm sure japan is pretty close to 50/50 genderwise.

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Darien

ok. I don't see why its such a big deal tho. no one cares about tfr here. If a woman says no kids to a guy that wants them, he either a) say ok b) fight/compromise c) find another woman.

In Japan, a and b are always possible. c is hard to do when such women are short in supply. Living in a nation realizing you're stuck in a dead-end job, limited emotional contact/help and with no spouse/family (especially when you're middle-aged and realizing what your life has come to) would probably make people quite depressed.

c is hard to do when such women are short in supply.

hmmm, % of men vs. women?

I don't understand why people are so alone there with so many people, altho I guess if communication is really difficult, especially 'openness', then someone can feel lonely no matter how many people are around them.

I don't think percentile makeup of the gender is at issue here. As the article pointed out, it's roots are deep in Japanese culture where children are under the constand pressure from parents and society in general to succed. There are certain goals to meet and standards to uphold in order to be considered successful in Japan. Children are under constant control from their parenst, and upbringin is very strict. Even metal buckles under pressure, let alone people.

 

[DanTMWTMP]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
could be worse. in america the mentally disturbed shoot everyone they know before they kill themselves.

:Q

seems true though... 🙁

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo could be worse. in america the mentally disturbed shoot everyone they know before they kill themselves.

:Q seems true though... 🙁

maybe for "emotionally" disturbed/distraught people.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: idNut
I hate our times.

Hate what Japanese society does to people.

suicide is only twice as big per capita compared with the United States, I feel that if people in the US were as cramped as they are in Japan our suicide rate per capita would be larger, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Darien

ok. I don't see why its such a big deal tho. no one cares about tfr here. If a woman says no kids to a guy that wants them, he either a) say ok b) fight/compromise c) find another woman.

In Japan, a and b are always possible. c is hard to do when such women are short in supply. Living in a nation realizing you're stuck in a dead-end job, limited emotional contact/help and with no spouse/family (especially when you're middle-aged and realizing what your life has come to) would probably make people quite depressed.

c is hard to do when such women are short in supply.

hmmm, % of men vs. women? I don't understand why people are so alone there with so many people, altho I guess if communication is really difficult, especially 'openness', then someone can feel lonely no matter how many people are around them.

I don't think percentile makeup of the gender is at issue here. As the article pointed out, it's roots are deep in Japanese culture where children are under the constand pressure from parents and society in general to succed. There are certain goals to meet and standards to uphold in order to be considered successful in Japan. Children are under constant control from their parenst, and upbringin is very strict. Even metal buckles under pressure, let alone people.

no doubt. sounds like a difficult cycle...get pressure from the parents and culture and then pass it on to your kids and so on. japanese imploding from the pressure, (while americans seem to 'explode').

 

[Darien]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Darien

ok. I don't see why its such a big deal tho. no one cares about tfr here. If a woman says no kids to a guy that wants them, he either a) say ok b) fight/compromise c) find another woman.

In Japan, a and b are always possible. c is hard to do when such women are short in supply. Living in a nation realizing you're stuck in a dead-end job, limited emotional contact/help and with no spouse/family (especially when you're middle-aged and realizing what your life has come to) would probably make people quite depressed.

c is hard to do when such women are short in supply.

hmmm, % of men vs. women? I don't understand why people are so alone there with so many people, altho I guess if communication is really difficult, especially 'openness', then someone can feel lonely no matter how many people are around them.

I don't think percentile makeup of the gender is at issue here. As the article pointed out, it's roots are deep in Japanese culture where children are under the constand pressure from parents and society in general to succed. There are certain goals to meet and standards to uphold in order to be considered successful in Japan. Children are under constant control from their parenst, and upbringin is very strict. Even metal buckles under pressure, let alone people.

no doubt. sounds like a difficult cycle...get pressure from the parents and culture and then pass it on to your kids and so on. japanese imploding from the pressure, (while americans seem to 'explode').

There it's *really* important to achieve. Much more so than America. Japan doesn't have this huge welfare system that America does, so you can't slack. Whether parents put pressure or not is not too important -- if you can't cut it, then you're screwed. Apparently the bar is set high compared to the US.



And again, suicide rate in Japan has been high even before the 20th century. Claiming the primary problem is the desire to succeed is rather limiting.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Darien

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: AnyMal

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Darien

ok. I don't see why its such a big deal tho. no one cares about tfr here. If a woman says no kids to a guy that wants them, he either a) say ok b) fight/compromise c) find another woman.

In Japan, a and b are always possible. c is hard to do when such women are short in supply. Living in a nation realizing you're stuck in a dead-end job, limited emotional contact/help and with no spouse/family (especially when you're middle-aged and realizing what your life has come to) would probably make people quite depressed.

c is hard to do when such women are short in supply.

hmmm, % of men vs. women? I don't understand why people are so alone there with so many people, altho I guess if communication is really difficult, especially 'openness', then someone can feel lonely no matter how many people are around them.

I don't think percentile makeup of the gender is at issue here. As the article pointed out, it's roots are deep in Japanese culture where children are under the constand pressure from parents and society in general to succed. There are certain goals to meet and standards to uphold in order to be considered successful in Japan. Children are under constant control from their parenst, and upbringin is very strict. Even metal buckles under pressure, let alone people.

no doubt. sounds like a difficult cycle...get pressure from the parents and culture and then pass it on to your kids and so on. japanese imploding from the pressure, (while americans seem to 'explode').

There it's *really* important to achieve. Much more so than America. Japan doesn't have this huge welfare system that America does, so you can't slack. Whether parents put pressure or not is not too important -- if you can't cut it, then you're screwed. Apparently the bar is set high compared to the US. And again, suicide rate in Japan has been high even before the 20th century. Claiming the primary problem is the desire to succeed is rather limiting.

Its apparently a mixture because so many teens are commiting suicide too, those who have more social issues to worry about than economic issues, altho scholastic issues would tie into that given there would be lots of pressure/expectations to succeed there as a preparation for succeeding later.

Stupid question, but I suppose the definition of 'succeeding' as an adult is the same there as here...be independent and be able to 'provide'?...or are you simply supposed to be a 'success' in everything you do and how you do it, and will be 'micro-judged' respectively, etc.