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Japan apologizes to Asia for WWII

Kenazo

Lifer
Text

Ok, so they were awful during WWII, but consider this quote from China:

"Actions speak louder than words ... His words appeared faint and his sincerity is also in doubt," said an editorial in the China Daily, referring to Koizumi's past apologies.

What the heck is Japan supposed to do? Payback the billions in damages they've caused? That's retarded. It was war. My ancestors had everything taken away from them and a bunch were killed in Russia during the Bolschevik (sp?) revolution and we don't expect Russia to pay us back.

Learn from the past, but let it die.
 
Interesting fact of the day: Japan and Russian are still formally at war. So WWII hasn't really formally ended.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Chinese didnt appreciate the Japanses Army in Manchuria using their babies as targets for their bayonets.

I

Well of course not. I've heard some crazy stories of what the Communists did to my ancestors in Russia too. Death is death and atrocities are awful, but for how long should a country be held liable for the damage done by people that aren't even alive anymore?
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Chinese didnt appreciate the Japanses Army in Manchuria using their babies as targets for their bayonets.

I

I'm sure African slaves didn't appreciate whites whipping their fathers to death, raping their daughters, and breaking up their families. Those slaves are dead now, and so are those whites.

Old wounds don't heal if you keep picking at them. The most you can do is make sure such a wound is never again inflicted.
 
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Originally posted by: Genx87
Chinese didnt appreciate the Japanses Army in Manchuria using their babies as targets for their bayonets.

I

Well of course not. I've heard some crazy stories of what the Communists did to my ancestors in Russia too. Death is death and atrocities are awful, but for how long should a country be held liable for the damage done by people that aren't even alive anymore?

People are still squaking about reparations for slavery in the US. So apparently, when it comes to getting free money, some people see no statute of limitations.
 
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Text

Ok, so they were awful during WWII, but consider this quote from China:

"Actions speak louder than words ... His words appeared faint and his sincerity is also in doubt," said an editorial in the China Daily, referring to Koizumi's past apologies.

What the heck is Japan supposed to do? Payback the billions in damages they've caused? That's retarded. It was war. My ancestors had everything taken away from them and a bunch were killed in Russia during the Bolschevik (sp?) revolution and we don't expect Russia to pay us back.

Learn from the past, but let it die.

China Daily is referring to Koizumi's past visits to Japan War shrine where many convicted war criminals during WW2 are still worshiped. They are also referring to Japan government's recent change in their school textbook on their WW2 crimes.

See here

Nobody want Japan to pay back what they did during WW2, but the very least they can do is not glorifying war criminals as Gods or attempting to rewrite history.
 
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Text

Ok, so they were awful during WWII, but consider this quote from China:

"Actions speak louder than words ... His words appeared faint and his sincerity is also in doubt," said an editorial in the China Daily, referring to Koizumi's past apologies.

What the heck is Japan supposed to do? Payback the billions in damages they've caused? That's retarded. It was war. My ancestors had everything taken away from them and a bunch were killed in Russia during the Bolschevik (sp?) revolution and we don't expect Russia to pay us back.

Learn from the past, but let it die.

China Daily is referring to Koizumi's past visits to Japan War shrine where many convicted war criminals during WW2 are still worshiped. They are also referring to Japan government's recent change in their school textbook on their WW2 crimes.

See here

Nobody want Japan to pay back what they did during WW2, but the very least they can do is not glorifying war criminals as Gods or attempting to rewrite history.

Seems to me that China does the same thing.
 
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Text

Ok, so they were awful during WWII, but consider this quote from China:

"Actions speak louder than words ... His words appeared faint and his sincerity is also in doubt," said an editorial in the China Daily, referring to Koizumi's past apologies.

What the heck is Japan supposed to do? Payback the billions in damages they've caused? That's retarded. It was war. My ancestors had everything taken away from them and a bunch were killed in Russia during the Bolschevik (sp?) revolution and we don't expect Russia to pay us back.

Learn from the past, but let it die.

China Daily is referring to Koizumi's past visits to Japan War shrine where many convicted war criminals during WW2 are still worshiped. They are also referring to Japan government's recent change in their school textbook on their WW2 crimes.

See here

Nobody want Japan to pay back what they did during WW2, but the very least they can do is not glorifying war criminals as Gods or attempting to rewrite history.

Seems to me that China does the same thing.

Like what?
 
Japan is going to follow up this apology with the visits to the war shrine and white washing it's role in WWII in its history books. How would jews feel if the chancellor of germany visited a momument dedicated to hitler every year?
 
The Japanese, like all people everywhere, do not want to feel humiliated or bad. Like all people everywhere they have learned as children to hate themselves and hope to hide that self contempt by taking honor in their people. If their people are jerks then that false identification goes out the window too.

We are not Japanese or American or anything else. We are all human and we are all the same. It is self hate that makes us monsters and self love that heals. But be wary of the difference between real self love and pride for pride is nothing but hidden hate for the self.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The Japanese, like all people everywhere, do not want to feel humiliated or bad. Like all people everywhere they have learned as children to hate themselves and hope to hide that self contempt by taking honor in their people. If their people are jerks then that false identification goes out the window too.

We are not Japanese or American or anything else. We are all human and we are all the same. It is self hate that makes us monsters and self love that heals. But be wary of the difference between real self love and pride for pride is nothing but hidden hate for the self.

Not to take away from the rest of your wonderful post, but :thumbsup: for what is in bold. Pride is a sin, just as jealousy, and they often go together. They feed of each other. Often when one is removed the other dies of starvation.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The Japanese, like all people everywhere, do not want to feel humiliated or bad. Like all people everywhere they have learned as children to hate themselves and hope to hide that self contempt by taking honor in their people. If their people are jerks then that false identification goes out the window too.

We are not Japanese or American or anything else. We are all human and we are all the same. It is self hate that makes us monsters and self love that heals. But be wary of the difference between real self love and pride for pride is nothing but hidden hate for the self.

why do i feel like almost every post you make has the same idea in it? "self hate blah blah blah blah"
 
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The Japanese, like all people everywhere, do not want to feel humiliated or bad. Like all people everywhere they have learned as children to hate themselves and hope to hide that self contempt by taking honor in their people. If their people are jerks then that false identification goes out the window too.

We are not Japanese or American or anything else. We are all human and we are all the same. It is self hate that makes us monsters and self love that heals. But be wary of the difference between real self love and pride for pride is nothing but hidden hate for the self.
why do i feel like almost every post you make has the same idea in it? "self hate blah blah blah blah"
Because it does, and because most issues boil down to that.

What does Japan have to apologize for? It reeks of false humility and political posturing, IMO.
 
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Text

What the heck is Japan supposed to do? Payback the billions in damages they've caused?

Yes, much like how the Germans paid the Jews with a lot of Deutsche Marks over the years.

But where does it stop? And how do I go about filing a claim w/ the Russian government to get my family's factories and property back?
 
Originally posted by: HamSupLo
Japan is going to follow up this apology with the visits to the war shrine and white washing it's role in WWII in its history books. How would jews feel if the chancellor of germany visited a momument dedicated to hitler every year?

This sums it up. Other than in Germany, there never has been a collective reflection about the nation's role in the war. We have seen economic pragmatism and the society now for sure stands somewhere else than in the 1940s but the old generations did not accept their responsability and the newer soon will be uneducated about the bloody past. This is not okay. It is not about responsability on an individual level or reparation payments from the nation, it's about the consciousness about the nation's history one should have (and it should be of the same strengh as patriotic feelings are, because both are about achievments/events one did not personally cause, but they influence the life condition of the individual beeing).

In the case of Japan, the people and its representatives pay little respect to the victims of the nation and little acceptance for the role of the country in the war, as HamSupLo described. And in my opinion, both people and representatives are bound in honor to face history. It's unimportant that the Turkish-Armenian genocide happened nearly 90 ago. People die, but mentalities can remain for centuries. As long as there is a nation named Japan or Turkey, it is morally bound to aspire reconciliation. My opinion.

The problem with China's accusation is that the pot calls the kettle black. They have their own skeleton in the closet. From the foundation of the country to the assimilation of Tibet over the Taiwan conflict to the present undemocratic regime. But they still have a point.

The nations of southeast Asia have relatively few diplomatic contacts and common views of the history of the region, and this makes the situation more difficult and explosive than necessary. The general condition of international relations in the region is an explanation for the delicate and complex nature of the North Korea nuclear negotiations.

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: Kenazo
Text

What the heck is Japan supposed to do? Payback the billions in damages they've caused?

Yes, much like how the Germans paid the Jews with a lot of Deutsche Marks over the years.

But where does it stop? And how do I go about filing a claim w/ the Russian government to get my family's factories and property back?

As I tried to explain above, it's not just about money, it's about mentality. In Germany's case the reflection with the past is an important part of the national self-perception. Every scholar learns about the Nazis. Concentration camps are open to the public. Third Reich symbols are forbidden. And the World Wars are subject in cultural works (e.g. the movie "Der Untergang", and many books).

It's more than paying a "genocide fine" and sometimes it doesn't even involve money.
 
Who said anything about reparations and money? All they want them to do is say they are fvcking sorry for all the terrible sub-human sh!t they did. Is it to much to admit they were wrong, apologize, and move on? Apparently it is.
 
Originally posted by: nick1985
Who said anything about reparations and money? All they want them to do is say they are fvcking sorry for all the terrible sub-human sh!t they did. Is it to much to admit they were wrong, apologize, and move on? Apparently it is.

And who was wrong? Will China be satisfied with the 90 year old geezers who actually commited those atrocities? Or will they demand apologies from people who weren't even born when these crimes took place? China is demanding the latter, just like some apologist groups are demanding for reparations for blacks because their ancestors were enslaved by white people of 150 years ago. It's ridiculous.
 
Originally posted by: chcarnage
As I tried to explain above, it's not just about money, it's about mentality. In Germany's case the reflection with the past is an important part of the national self-perception. Every scholar learns about the Nazis. Concentration camps are open to the public. Third Reich symbols are forbidden. And the World Wars are subject in cultural works (e.g. the movie "Der Untergang", and many books).

It's more than paying a "genocide fine" and sometimes it doesn't even involve money.

True, but to be honest. Not a lot of people in Europe even know anything about World War II. There where a lot of people that where gulity during world war II, only half of Poland has ever heard of Auschwitz. A little of topic, but I've heard many of the concentration camps still smell awful.

All fringe right-wing parties in Germany are banned, most of the citizen in Germany barley know anything about World War II. In Japan they've got some groups that are trying to disprove that the rape of nanking took place.

The least a country can is remeamber that what they did is wrong and not revise history.
 
Accepting responsibility for previous actions and offering an apology is one of the many steps along the road to reconciliation and forgiveness. So what if China isn't ready to reciprocate, hopefully Japan's actions will open doors to do so. I like Moonbeams sentiment:
When will people get past nationalism and realize we are all human beings on an amazing trip.

I would suggest that Japan offering its apology is a step in that direction.
 
Originally posted by: kogase
Originally posted by: nick1985
Who said anything about reparations and money? All they want them to do is say they are fvcking sorry for all the terrible sub-human sh!t they did. Is it to much to admit they were wrong, apologize, and move on? Apparently it is.

And who was wrong? Will China be satisfied with the 90 year old geezers who actually commited those atrocities? Or will they demand apologies from people who weren't even born when these crimes took place? China is demanding the latter, just like some apologist groups are demanding for reparations for blacks because their ancestors were enslaved by white people of 150 years ago. It's ridiculous.

Germany is still paying Jews for their WWII atrocities. I'll be satisfied when Japan teaches its kids that Manchuria and much of asia was brutally assaulted (rape of naking comes to mind). But its not just Japan, Russia needs to open up more investigation about the Stalin massacres, and China needs to stop portraying mao as a hero and tell their schoolkids about Mao Zedong's drastic backwards step, the great leap forward, which caused millions of deaths by famine.

Lets not point fingers at each other here. We've all got things we don't want to talk about. Hopefully though, we'll learn to risk public outcry and talk about these things anyways.

 
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