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Japan and treatment of women question

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Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Western culture is just as devoid of respect for women as it is anywhere else. Look at the guys on this board (or anywhere) who constantly view pornography - most of that material is just as degrading if not more degrading than material available in other cultures. Look at popular culture and the paradigm which women and girls are restricted to, what is "permissible" and what is not.

Yes, these barriers are changing, throughout the East and the West. But it still exists, it is entrenched in our popular culture and painfully evident in our history.

i would not say it is as devoid at all. i seriously doubt that most of us view pornography that is more degrading that bukkake. sure, you have anal, but a.) i doubt most of us enjoy that stuff, b.) it's still a step above bukkake.

furthermore, it's not altogether evident that women here are just as restricted as they are elsewhere. just becuase they are restricted at all does not mean that they are as restricted. for example, we had birth control waaaay before japan did.

You're viewing this on a micro scale... it's only been in the last twenty or thirty years since women have truly had opportunities open up to them (at least as far as I've gathered from my parents and siblings).

I was referring to pornography in the sense of violence towards women and permissiveness in that sense. 😛 There was a study done (I'll look it up later if I have time) that noted a correspondance with pornography viewing and attitudes towards gender violence.
 
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Western culture is just as devoid of respect for women as it is anywhere else. Look at the guys on this board (or anywhere) who constantly view pornography - most of that material is just as degrading if not more degrading than material available in other cultures. Look at popular culture and the paradigm which women and girls are restricted to, what is "permissible" and what is not.

Yes, these barriers are changing, throughout the East and the West. But it still exists, it is entrenched in our popular culture and painfully evident in our history.

i would not say it is as devoid at all. i seriously doubt that most of us view pornography that is more degrading that bukkake. sure, you have anal, but a.) i doubt most of us enjoy that stuff, b.) it's still a step above bukkake.

furthermore, it's not altogether evident that women here are just as restricted as they are elsewhere. just becuase they are restricted at all does not mean that they are as restricted. for example, we had birth control waaaay before japan did.

You're viewing this on a micro scale... it's only been in the last twenty or thirty years since women have truly had opportunities open up to them (at least as far as I've gathered from my parents and siblings).

I was referring to pornography in the sense of violence towards women and permissiveness in that sense. 😛 There was a study done (I'll look it up later if I have time) that noted a correspondance with pornography viewing and attitudes towards gender violence.

I'll like to see that study... because i have seen studies of pornography and violence, and they are not related. Only when people viewed violent pornography, would they be more likely to be aggressive towards women... but how much of western porn are violent? Not many, especially compared to all the bukkake, rape, and hog tying that japanese porn depicts.

EDIT: I found a like that corroborates what i said:

Attitudes toward women and aggressive behavior. For obvious ethical, moral, and legal reasons, researchers have not conducted experiments to determine whether exposure to material in which high levels of sexual explicitness and violence are both present leads to increased sexual violence. They have, however, looked at whether men with a history of such exposure are more likely to have committed sex crimes. Sex offenders tend to come from restrictive and punitive home environments. Compared to non-offenders, they have had more undesirable experiences during childhood, including heightened exposure to sexual and physical abuse. Some offenders have had more exposure to explicit materials than other men, but early exposure alone does not increase the risk of becoming a sex offender.

In controlled laboratory research, individuals have been exposed to material containing (a) both aggression and explicit sex, (b) only aggression, and (c) only the sexual material. The results suggest it is exposure to aggression that triggers aggressive behavior. Exposure to sexual material alone does not increase aggression toward women. For most people, aggression and sex are incompatible. For a small percentage of men predisposed to aggression toward women, however, combining sex and aggression does stimulate arousal and aggressive responses.

The impact of exposure to sexist, demeaning material depends on the person's pre-existing attitudes. Under some conditions, those predisposed to negative views become more calloused and accepting of these negative views

http://www.psc.uc.edu/sh/SH_Pornography.htm
 
Originally posted by: Shiva112
Originally posted by: bigalt
i bet the fact that japanese men can get all their perverse fantasies out of the way is responsible for their lower homicide and rape rate.

where does their high suicide rate fit in there?

a leftover sense of feudal honor, completely independent from sexuality
 
Like we treat women so great here... nearly every thread that mentinos women gets "Do her in the butt" mentioned in it at least once. I personally find that a lot more degrading than "women make poor professional chefs".
 
Originally posted by: notfred
Like we treat women so great here... nearly every thread that mentinos women gets "Do her in the butt" mentioned in it at least once. I personally find that a lot more degrading than "women make poor professional chefs".

And you take those DHITB comments seriously?
rolleye.gif
 
Originally posted by: Zrom999
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
You know what bukkake is? No, they don't respect women.

no, what is it?

Circle of men surround a girl, and jerks off... then they all spew their load in her face simultaneously.

And how do you know about this?

Because i'm aware of the world around me? I know about 'gerbiling' and gay sex, does that mean i have to practice it to know about it? I know the psychology behind why pedophiles diddle little kids... does that mean i must be a pedophile?
 
i spent 4 wks in tokyo. i observed and not once have i caught men, young, old, cat call at women, walk pass and then turn around to look at a female's ass...

but i see this every day here... women being harrassed like this.
 
Wonder how many 'cat calls' there were in Afghanistan before the war, or even today. (though not in the 60's, whew, Afghani women set some records for short skirts back then) Or in Saudi Arabia. Or in France.

That seems to be more about style of expression than meaning. I include France above because they seem to most often accuse Americans of being loud and obnoxious. And on this one point I agree. We're loud, we whistle openly instead of nudging our buddy and whispering something offensive covertly.
 
Gopunk is right, their legalization of birth control on the female end was relatively recent. I believe it took years, if not decades of lobbying to get it done. Viagra on the other hand, took a few months.

Although things are slowly changing over there, if you are comparing it to the US, it is still a bit behind over there. It's still expected of many women to give up their jobs once marraige has taken place (to take care of the husband mind you). Even historically, their track record has been behind. Some of you may be familiar with the mass rapes (talking well beyond the thousands)/forced prostitution/forced bondage of women in China, Korea, and the Phillipines during WW2. This was many times followed up by, what I can only imagine to be classified as psycho-pseudo erotic, execution such as cutting off the breasts or stabbing the genital areas with sharp phallic objects. For more information you may want to consult some textbooks (although those few brave Japanese authors who have stepped forward to write such things usually end up facing alienation). I'm unconvinced that you would have seen a Western army mirror that type of behavior with the same magnitude during that time period.

Japanese culture places a lot of weight on "saving face" and keeping the societal order. You can see this in the language itself, as there are different "modes" if you will, depending on who you are talking to (the lowest "mode" sounds remarkably different from the highest "mode"). So just because one doesn't see men "turn around and look at a female's ass" mean that they respect women more. That would probably bring unwanted embarassment to the average person. There are different ways to vent this. The most famous would probably be the subway groping. What better way to maintain anonymity? If you've seen Japanese subways, they really know how to pack people in. A problem that's been around for years now is that many women get felt up on those subways. Usually the women won't even say anything, again, because that would bring embarassment. They may try to nudge out of the way, but when you're packed in, that doesn't do much. As freedomsbeat212 pointed out, it's very doubtful Japan's rape rate was less than 1000 for an entire year, again to save face. Regarding the subway, one simple solution they've deployed is female only subways.

As for a low rape rate, Japan is still plagued with a booming sex slave industry (thanks to the Yakuza, but also the men who visit), with women usually being kidnapped from southeast asia and eastern european countries. You can find more information about this at the Far East Economic Review publication. Japan's been pressed by the UN and such, but it hasn't received much priority. Last I heard, the revenue generated from the sex slave industry matched the government spending on national defense (arguably one could say they don't spend much on national defense though, but it is over $1 million US).

As for their culture being "progressive", maybe relative to other nearby nations (cough China). But if you're a foreigner, don't expect to receive much of that progressiveness. You'll be hardpressed to receive citizenship, even after years of residency. They've always been harassed about that though, but recently the issue flared up again when they awarded a seal (yes, the ocean kind) citizenship. And it won't be too uncommon to find "no-foreigner" residencies and stores (well probably outside of Tokyo since that's a bigger international hub). But i'm not talking about backwaters middle-of-no-where land either. Anyway, i've blabbed for too much.
 
Originally posted by: abc
i spent 4 wks in tokyo. i observed and not once have i caught men, young, old, cat call at women, walk pass and then turn around to look at a female's ass...

but i see this every day here... women being harrassed like this.
yeah, instead they grab onto schoolgirl ass and sneak a feel into their panties when riding on a crowded subway train. much better.

 
You're viewing this on a micro scale... it's only been in the last twenty or thirty years since women have truly had opportunities open up to them (at least as far as I've gathered from my parents and siblings).

i don't see what this has to do with anything i said... the fact that western society is much quicker to adopt new advancements in medicine, whereas japan seems unwilling to, for fear of empowering women with sexual freedom, does not seem to be limited to a micro scale at all.

I was referring to pornography in the sense of violence towards women and permissiveness in that sense. 😛 There was a study done (I'll look it up later if I have time) that noted a correspondance with pornography viewing and attitudes towards gender violence.

well, i suppose that is true, if you subscribe to those "feminist" notions. however i like porn because the girls are hot, not because i like degrading them.
 
Originally posted by: FrontlineWarrior
Originally posted by: abc
i spent 4 wks in tokyo. i observed and not once have i caught men, young, old, cat call at women, walk pass and then turn around to look at a female's ass...

but i see this every day here... women being harrassed like this.
yeah, instead they grab onto schoolgirl ass and sneak a feel into their panties when riding on a crowded subway train. much better.


nope. people mind their own business on the trains, trains are quiet yet for how busy they are with passengers.
i dont blame you, but it's so like the media here and those embedded in Japan to hype up and exoticise Japan so we here can say look, oh my.


and on the crowded trains everybody pitches in to make room so the train can get on its way. a civilized mass so civilized, functioning as one.

weird how half a century ago they were Imperialist Japan. I guess Japan is a country of extremes.
 
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: TommyVercetti
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: Moralpanic You know what bukkake is? No, they don't respect women.
no, what is it?
Circle of men surround a girl, and jerks off... then they all spew their load in her face simultaneously.
wtf...is this something Japanese men pay to do somewhere?

Yes, just like American men pay to get into 3somes and 4somes, or pay to watch 2 lesbians get it on. It's just pornography.

i think it's a little different...

not really, a good deal of american pr0n ends with the man spooging on her face. many times with multiple guys. why? deprive the woman of orgasm? haha, no idea😛

japanese men defecate on women's faces. no, respect is not very common.

i've seen the opposite happen😛 europe/american pr0n have the same.
 
i've seen american porn where guys make women suck things that have been in their bumholes. ick anyone? treatment of women.. bah. we have the southern baptists amoung many that want women to submit to men.
 
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
Originally posted by: notfred
Like we treat women so great here... nearly every thread that mentinos women gets "Do her in the butt" mentioned in it at least once. I personally find that a lot more degrading than "women make poor professional chefs".

And you take those DHITB comments seriously?
rolleye.gif

The guy on the show doesn't think he's benig disrespectful either. Just because you think it's funny, doesn't mean that women don't find it insulting.
 
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