Jane Fonda - Poll - Forgive or Traitor

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I thought Hanoi Jane had gone away forever, but it looks like we'll have to put up with her for a while more. Sigh.

When will the idiots of the world come to realize that the best coarse of action for their lives is to merely sit down and shut up?

Yeah especially her. There are those who hate her just for the sake of hating her and by coming out publicly all she is doing is giving those wankers a reason to start spouting off again.

The only ones who have a legitimate reason to spout hatred towards her are those who were affected

As far as I knew she never fired the damn thing, she sat on it.
So imo she needs to apologize to noone.
The us administration should be apologizing to the vets they sent to die for a pointless imperialist war and have since have screwed them over countless times. :|

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I thought Hanoi Jane had gone away forever, but it looks like we'll have to put up with her for a while more. Sigh.

When will the idiots of the world come to realize that the best coarse of action for their lives is to merely sit down and shut up?

Yeah especially her. There are those who hate her just for the sake of hating her and by coming out publicly all she is doing is giving those wankers a reason to start spouting off again.

The only ones who have a legitimate reason to spout hatred towards her are those who were affected

Amd the lefty libby communists will state that she did not affect anyone, only spouting the truth.

"POWs were being treated properly and no torture existed." = Oceanfront property in AZ w/ the Golden Gate in free. (as the song goes)

She said they were exaggerated not that no torture existed. Look for more balanced sources.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I thought Hanoi Jane had gone away forever, but it looks like we'll have to put up with her for a while more. Sigh.

When will the idiots of the world come to realize that the best coarse of action for their lives is to merely sit down and shut up?

Yeah especially her. There are those who hate her just for the sake of hating her and by coming out publicly all she is doing is giving those wankers a reason to start spouting off again.

The only ones who have a legitimate reason to spout hatred towards her are those who were affected

Amd the lefty libby communists will state that she did not affect anyone, only spouting the truth.

"POWs were being treated properly and no torture existed." = Oceanfront property in AZ w/ the Golden Gate in free. (as the song goes)

I can't believe history is so distorted now you people buy this "aiding and giving comfort" crap from the same government that would shoot it's own college students or force them off for a stupid war that is admitted a scam back then.

She was trying to wake up blind nationalistic yahoo's just like you so YOUR dad isn't dead from 'nam now.
You should be thanking those who were brave and forward thinking enough to stand up to the status quo back then since you were born and your father wasen't drafted to die for a scam.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I thought Hanoi Jane had gone away forever, but it looks like we'll have to put up with her for a while more. Sigh.

When will the idiots of the world come to realize that the best coarse of action for their lives is to merely sit down and shut up?

Yeah especially her. There are those who hate her just for the sake of hating her and by coming out publicly all she is doing is giving those wankers a reason to start spouting off again.

The only ones who have a legitimate reason to spout hatred towards her are those who were affected

As far as I knew she never fired the damn thing, she sat on it.
So imo she needs to apologize to noone.
|

Actually the dumb bitch should have apologized to the Anti War movement as her actions hurt them too. Maybe if she hadn't of done what she did many more people would have jumped on the Anti War Bandwagon and the country wouldn't have been as polarized as it was.

 

[Steeplerot]

the right will look for anything to say the anti-war movement is traitorious to justify their little imperialist actions, if it wasen't this it would be something else.
hell, they had fbi crawling around the anti-war movement trying to instigate stuff just like they do now.
Ok so I wouldn't have done it myself but back then a lot more people were dying I can see how something a bit more dramatic was needed to get full attention of the dittoheads.
the method was a bit lame though.
This makes her short-sighted not a traitor to the US or the anti-war movement though. imo

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I thought Hanoi Jane had gone away forever, but it looks like we'll have to put up with her for a while more. Sigh.

When will the idiots of the world come to realize that the best coarse of action for their lives is to merely sit down and shut up?

Yeah especially her. There are those who hate her just for the sake of hating her and by coming out publicly all she is doing is giving those wankers a reason to start spouting off again.

The only ones who have a legitimate reason to spout hatred towards her are those who were affected

As far as I knew she never fired the damn thing, she sat on it.
So imo she needs to apologize to noone.
|

Actually the dumb bitch should have apologized to the Anti War movement as her actions hurt them too. Maybe if she hadn't of done what she did many more people would have jumped on the Anti War Bandwagon and the country wouldn't have been as polarized as it was.

So one incident incited the Republicans?

One foxy chick sits on some gun outweighs thousands of civilians and soldiers on both sides dying for a lousy reason? Doesn't that tell you something about the morals and world view of the other side?

 

[Steeplerot]

like I said the right is ALWAYS looking for a excuse to justify their wars, and scare the people who think for themselves into a situation of feeling like they are being traitors for questioning.
hell, they had o'lielly telling people to stfu or you are a traitor before the iraq war even started.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
the right will look for anything to say the anti-war movement is traitorious to justify their little imperialist actions, if it wasen't this it would be something else.
hell, they had fbi crawling around the anti-war movement trying to instigate stuff just like they do now.
Ok so I wouldn't have done it myself but back then a lot more people were dying I can see how something a bit more dramatic was needed to get full attention of the dittoheads.
the method was a bit lame though.
This makes her short-sighted not a traitor to the US or the anti-war movement though. imo

Didn't say she was a Traitor, just stupid.

 

[Steeplerot]

I know, it just seems to be the theme in here from the misinformed about vietnam. not directed at you per se.
I can tell you either are old enough to remember the war or read a lot, I pretty much agree on that conclusion.
But then this is a time of the weathermen and other hype.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So one incident incited the Republicans?

One foxy chick sits on some gun outweighs thousands of civilians and soldiers on both sides dying for a lousy reason?

First of all I didn't say it was the Republicans that she incited, there were plenty of Democrats she incited too. Secondly, her actions made it hard for some to align themselves with the likes of her even if they felt the war was unjust.

Doesn't that tell you something about the morals and world view of the other side

Not as much as it tells me that she wasn't thinking about the big picture. The North Vietnamese weren't the kind heroic Army you seem to think they were, they were brutal too and as guilty if not more so than the Americans when it came to atrocities. They tortured and killed American POWs, do you really expect Joe Six Pack back then to feel good about seeing her cavorting with them on the front page on the Newspaper?

 

[MCWAR]

Posted by: Steeplerot
Quote:
like I said the right ALWAYS is looking for a excuse to justify their wars, and smear the opposition hell, they had o'lielly telling people to stfu or you are a traitor before the iraq war even started.
-------------------------------------------------------------

They who?
Dude, you make more generalizations than any old racist or old timer I'v ever met. And you state them as fact. Some times you may have a point but you over generalize every thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------
posted by STEEPLEROT
Quote:
You can almost peg someone with the abuses their family put them through by where someone new you meet tells you they are from.
I can't think of ONE person from a religious suburban background who hasen't been fiddled with or beaten by someone in their immediate family once you get to know them well enough.
(I am being dead serious too)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have edited my post for accuracey.

 

[Steeplerot]

not at all, but it sent a pretty damn shocking message and got attention.good or bad I think that was the point -exposure

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I know, it just seems to be the theme in here from the misinformed about vietnam. not directed at you per se.
I can tell you either are old enough to remember the war or read a lot, I pretty much agree on that conclusion.
But then this is a time of the weathermen and other hype.

Yeah back in 72 I almost found God just so I could give him my thanks that they ended the draft a year earlier as I had a single digit lottery number (could have been from the year before)

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: MCWAR
Posted by: Steeplerot
Quote:
like I said the right ALWAYS is looking for a excuse to justify their wars, and smear the opposition hell, they had o'lielly telling people to stfu or you are a traitor before the iraq war even started.
-------------------------------------------------------------

They who?
Dude, you make more generalizations than any old racist or old timer I'v ever met. And you state them as fact. Some times you may have a point but you over generalize every thing.
Every one from the south is a fundie! Every one with a conservative view is a local yokal from the southern baptist groups. evey one from a suburb has been molested or mistreated. ...........

see, it is you who is generalizing what I have said. please quit misquoting me even though I know it is a pastime in here.
o'lielly either lies becasue he is a bush shill in one way or another (at the least just a kissass tool)
or another undocumented worker for the GOP like other pundits have been found to be.
(I actually lean toward the first, he seems too dumb to know the right will turn on him like a bad habit once he's tired.)

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So one incident incited the Republicans?

One foxy chick sits on some gun outweighs thousands of civilians and soldiers on both sides dying for a lousy reason?

First of all I didn't say it was the Republicans that she incited, there were plenty of Democrats she incited too. Secondly, her actions made it hard for some to align themselves with the likes of her even if they felt the war was unjust.

Doesn't that tell you something about the morals and world view of the other side

Not as much as it tells me that she wasn't thinking about the big picture. The North Vietnamese weren't the kind heroic Army you seem to think they were, they were brutal too and as guilty if not more so than the Americans when it came to atrocities. They tortured and killed American POWs, do you really expect Joe Six Pack back then to feel good about seeing her cavorting with them on the front page on the Newspaper?

Who said I thought they were great at all? I know they were barbaric. Any fighting force is.

I am just saying one woman doing one stupid thing is a pretty lousy reason to be against the anti-war movement.

As for the average Joe-Six-Pack American... These days I don't expect much from him. I'm just glad he can make it to the toilet to sh!t during the commercial break.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I know, it just seems to be the theme in here from the misinformed about vietnam. not directed at you per se.
I can tell you either are old enough to remember the war or read a lot, I pretty much agree on that conclusion.
But then this is a time of the weathermen and other hype.

Yeah back in 72 I almost found God just so I could give him my thanks that they ended the draft a year earlier as I had a single digit lottery number (could have been from the year before)

yeah, my dad and his *twin* brother were kinda poor, so guess where they were when they were 18 back then.
It sure wasen't the texas air national guard.
You are way lucky to have had that single digit RD my father sprayed defoliant from a huey and died mysteriously at 39 while the VA did sh1t. :|
I am kinda glad he isn't here to get upset at these kids that cheer on the us military in vietnam back then, I grew up with some pretty horrid stories of what we did back then.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So one incident incited the Republicans?

One foxy chick sits on some gun outweighs thousands of civilians and soldiers on both sides dying for a lousy reason?

First of all I didn't say it was the Republicans that she incited, there were plenty of Democrats she incited too. Secondly, her actions made it hard for some to align themselves with the likes of her even if they felt the war was unjust.

Doesn't that tell you something about the morals and world view of the other side

Not as much as it tells me that she wasn't thinking about the big picture. The North Vietnamese weren't the kind heroic Army you seem to think they were, they were brutal too and as guilty if not more so than the Americans when it came to atrocities. They tortured and killed American POWs, do you really expect Joe Six Pack back then to feel good about seeing her cavorting with them on the front page on the Newspaper?

Who said I thought they were great at all? I know they were barbaric. Any fighting force is.

I am just saying one woman doing one stupid thing is a pretty lousy reason to be against the anti-war movement.

Because of all the media coverage it garnered showed a terrible image of the Anti War Protesters. The backlash, whether you feel it was right or wrong, still hurt the movement.

Of course it wasn't as devastating to the Anti War Movement as the shootings at Kent State was to the Pro War side.

 

[Steeplerot]

nonetheless they stopped nixon and got our men home. for that with all their blunders I am grateful to all of them no matter how much they stumbled at times.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot


I can't believe history is so distorted now you people buy this "aiding and giving comfort" crap from the same government that would shoot it's own college students or force them off for a stupid war that is admitted a scam back then.

She was trying to wake up blind nationalistic yahoo's just like you so YOUR dad isn't dead from 'nam now.
You should be thanking those who were brave and forward thinking enough to stand up to the status quo back then since you were born and your father wasen't drafted to die for a scam.

Regretfully my father was drafted for WWII (POW and Silver Star) and I served proudly in the AF during this time frame.

The scam that existed was that the pols wanted to play footsies and not antagonize the USSR by spanking their protogee.

That lesson was learned for and implimented in GWI; spare no quarter when going into battle.

People that lived during this time saw what she did, how she did it and what the result was. And some of us were impacted by it, directly.

Those that have not been through it, are learning from history books & lessons that are always slanted in one direction or another. There is no substitue for the real world experience.

The shooting of college students was due to a group of poorly trained local guards that had become scared when confornted with a situation that they were not expecting of trained for. IT was not something that was ordered by the military chain of command in order to "put down the uprising". Look at Hungary and Chek if you want that type of examples on what the socialist/communist utopia did to their citizens.

At that time there was fear and example of Soviet/Communist aggression and what they did to countries under their control. That is what the intention of Ike and Kennedy was to stop. Problem was that Johnson was more concerned with the political issues and let the IVY leaguers experminent with the military policy. Nixon just had to clean up the mess.

 

[MCWAR]

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Steeplerot


I can't believe history is so distorted now you people buy this "aiding and giving comfort" crap from the same government that would shoot it's own college students or force them off for a stupid war that is admitted a scam back then.

She was trying to wake up blind nationalistic yahoo's just like you so YOUR dad isn't dead from 'nam now.
You should be thanking those who were brave and forward thinking enough to stand up to the status quo back then since you were born and your father wasen't drafted to die for a scam.

Regretfully my father was drafted for WWII (POW and Silver Star) and I served proudly in the AF during this time frame.

The scam that existed was that the pols wanted to play footsies and not antagonize the USSR by spanking their protogee.

That lesson was learned for and implimented in GWI; spare no quarter when going into battle.

People that lived during this time saw what she did, how she did it and what the result was. And some of us were impacted by it, directly.

Those that have not been through it, are learning from history books & lessons that are always slanted in one direction or another. There is no substitue for the real world experience.

The shooting of college students was due to a group of poorly trained local guards that had become scared when confornted with a situation that they were not expecting of trained for. IT was not something that was ordered by the military chain of command in order to "put down the uprising". Look at Hungary and Chek if you want that type of examples on what the socialist/communist utopia did to their citizens.

At that time there was fear and example of Soviet/Communist aggression and what they did to countries under their control. That is what the intention of Ike and Kennedy was to stop. Problem was that Johnson was more concerned with the political issues and let the IVY leaguers experminent with the military policy. Nixon just had to clean up the mess.

nixon cleaned up? where do you get your history? cleaning up does not mean expanding and multiplying the amount of young men drafted and to expand it to neighboring countries.
Vietnam was no threat to the us as iraq is not.
You should read up on the real reasons and all the lies told to send those men there.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: MCWAR

and where is your EVERYONE generalization you are trying to push off on me?
I just see a statement about religious+ suburban. that is not everyone so save it.
you fail. quit with the twisting of my words.

if EVERYONE you know are religious suburbanites then I recommend getting out sometime.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Jane Fonda is a worthless opportunist and a traitor.

The anti-war movement was strong enough in America at the time that all she needed to do as a celebrity was add her voice to the growing number of protestors...but she wanted more...I can't speak for her intentions, but the end result of her actions was treason.

Traveling to a nation that your country is at war with and taking photo ops in the very guns that are used to shoot down your nation's pilots is treason...plain and simple.

Let me make some analogies for you:
- Imagine if movie stars of the 1930s and 1940s traveled to Germany to star and promote in Nazi, anti-American propoganda films.
- Imagine is the usual suspects (Sarandon, Penn, etc.) traveled to Iraq for photo ops during insurgent beheadings of POWs.

Had Jane Fonda remained one of the many voiced against the war, people would not have a problem with her...but she was an opportunist...she chose to have her voice heard above and beyond those of the other protestors...and she deserves to face the consequences for her irresponsibility.

Vietnam was a poorly executed war, driven by a domino theory foreign policy mentality, poorly defined strategic objectives, and fought by soldiers who did not understand why they were there.

Americans citizens had every right to protest that war and the draft...protest does not include aiding or assisting enemy propoganda efforts.

 

[Steeplerot]

we are not at "war" with anyone the military is at war for their own reasons.
The military is the one the people were at war with as they betrayed the young men they sent off to die for their own agenda backed by lies.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Steeplerot


I can't believe history is so distorted now you people buy this "aiding and giving comfort" crap from the same government that would shoot it's own college students or force them off for a stupid war that is admitted a scam back then.

She was trying to wake up blind nationalistic yahoo's just like you so YOUR dad isn't dead from 'nam now.
You should be thanking those who were brave and forward thinking enough to stand up to the status quo back then since you were born and your father wasen't drafted to die for a scam.

Regretfully my father was drafted for WWII (POW and Silver Star) and I served proudly in the AF during this time frame.

The scam that existed was that the pols wanted to play footsies and not antagonize the USSR by spanking their protogee.

That lesson was learned for and implimented in GWI; spare no quarter when going into battle.

People that lived during this time saw what she did, how she did it and what the result was. And some of us were impacted by it, directly.

Those that have not been through it, are learning from history books & lessons that are always slanted in one direction or another. There is no substitue for the real world experience.

The shooting of college students was due to a group of poorly trained local guards that had become scared when confornted with a situation that they were not expecting of trained for. IT was not something that was ordered by the military chain of command in order to "put down the uprising". Look at Hungary and Chek if you want that type of examples on what the socialist/communist utopia did to their citizens.

At that time there was fear and example of Soviet/Communist aggression and what they did to countries under their control. That is what the intention of Ike and Kennedy was to stop. Problem was that Johnson was more concerned with the political issues and let the IVY leaguers experminent with the military policy. Nixon just had to clean up the mess.

nixon cleaned up? where do you get your history? cleaning up does not mean expanding and multiplying the amount of young men drafted and to expand it to neighboring countries.
Vietnam was no threat to the us as iraq is not.
You should read up on the real reasons and all the lies told to send those men there.

Nixon realized that the coutry was not going to politically accept a stlemate in the war and that SV was not intersting in pursuing the war. He then had implimented a method of extracting the US from it and turning the conflict over to SV.

Veitnam was not a direct threat to US. Neither was E Germany, Poland or any of the other Soviet Bloc. Nor was Cuba.

The threat was that the Soviet Communist agenda. Giving the expansion aim of the Soviets and Red China, it was felt that anywhere the Red menace showed up it should be stopped. People saw what happended in Eastern Europe.

If you choose to believe that the Soviets were not a threat, then that is your choice and it will color you attitudes and beliefs.

that seems to be the difference between the peace lovers and the freedom lovers. What is the cost of not living under tyranny?