Jahi McMath - just let her (body) die already.

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
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Update, she's in NJ now slowly rotting away. Family says she's aliiiiiiiiive, court appointed doctor says nope nope nope.

Unlike California, New Jersey law allows families to reject a declaration of brain death on religious grounds and allows brain-dead patients to remain connected to ventilators.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/c...vidence-of-Life-in-Jahi-McMath-278614371.html

She's dead. Seriously. There will be no miracle. This sets a bad precedence.

The family of 13-year-old Jahi McMath may have succeeded in transferring the brain-dead teen from an Oakland hospital to undisclosed care facility, but medical experts say it's only a matter of time before not even machines can keep her blood flowing.

Bodies of the brain-dead have been maintained on respirators for months or in rare cases even years — and in a few other cases released to families.
But once cessation of all brain activity is confirmed, there is no recovery, said Rebecca S. Dresser, professor of law and ethics in medicine at Washington University in St. Louis, who served on a presidential bioethics council that in 2008 reaffirmed "whole-brain death" as legal death.


Brain cells die without blood flow and autopsies in such cases have shown that the brain liquefies.

After marathon negotiations with a federal magistrate, Jahi's family members received approval to remove her body, while attached to a ventilator, from Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland on Sunday.
The brain-dead girl was released first to the Alameda County coroner and then to the family, and is now the responsibility of her mother, who has moved her to an unnamed facility.

The courts have so far agreed that Jahi is dead. The coroner on Friday issued a death certificate listing Dec. 12 as the date of death.
But bioethics experts say news media coverage that often repeated family assertions that Jahi McMath was alive — even responding to touch — clouded an issue the public already has difficulty grasping.

The Oakland girl underwent surgery Dec. 9 to remove her tonsils, adenoids and uvula. She was declared brain-dead after she went into cardiac arrest and suffered extensive brain hemorrhaging.

At least three neurologists confirmed that Jahi was unable to breathe on her own, had no blood flow to her brain and had no sign of electrical activity.
What followed was a court's order — extended once — that the hospital keep the ventilator on, first while an independent neurologist confirmed Jahi was brain-dead, then as the family scrambled to find a facility that would accept a patient declared deceased.

All the while, the breathing machine kept Jahi's lungs and heart working.
Jahi's family — and their attorney, Christopher Dolan of San Francisco — have maintained that brain death is not death, that the girl might get better, and that the rights of Jahi's mother, Latasha Winkfield, to determine the medical course of action were violated.


But California law says the family had no right to make decisions about the ventilator, only a right to a "reasonably brief period of accommodation" after the declaration of brain death to "gather family or next of kin at the patient's bedside."

To experts, the case has raised no novel legal issues, but it has created a painful spectacle.

Arthur Caplan, director of the division of medical ethics at New York University Langone Medical Center, said the Jahi case could compel other families to "ultimately say, 'I'd like to take this body home and wait for a miracle.' That would be a public policy of disrespect for dead bodies."
"The ability to get clear about brain death has been a real obstacle," he said. "This hasn't helped at all."



http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...imited-20140107,0,5429201.story#ixzz2pjiOXIcm
 
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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
agreed. let her die.

IF you believe in God you are denying her spirit the chance to go to heaven with this.

IF you don't believe in God then i guess who cares. keep the body "alive" as long as YOU are paying the bill.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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The Oakland girl underwent surgery Dec. 9 to remove her tonsils, adenoids and uvula. She was declared brain-dead after she went into cardiac arrest and suffered extensive brain hemorrhaging.

WTF happened that minor surgery turned into a dead teenager? Medical malpractice? Adverse reaction to anesthesia? A one in a quadzillion coincidence?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,272
31,302
136
agreed. let her die.

IF you believe in God you are denying her spirit the chance to go to heaven with this.

IF you don't believe in God then i guess who cares. keep the body "alive" as long as YOU are paying the bill.

Really I wonder if her spirit is being held here since the brain is already dead. Its a tragic story though and I feel for her parents but they really need to come to grips with reality. Their child is dead.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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WTF happened that minor surgery turned into a dead teenager? Medical malpractice? Adverse reaction to anesthesia? A one in a quadzillion coincidence?

Here is part of the problem, nobody is talking about why a frequently performed surgery resulted in a dead child.
Also the family insisting on keeping her heart beating makes it more difficult to determine what killed her.
I feel horrible for this family to loose a child then have such trouble accepting what happened.
 
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ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,407
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WTF happened that minor surgery turned into a dead teenager? Medical malpractice? Adverse reaction to anesthesia? A one in a quadzillion coincidence?

unfortunately, because the coroner hasn't been able to examine, and because even a brain dead body will heal itself to some extent, we don't know and may never have a good idea as to what happened.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Please don't let this morph into another Terri Schiavo. Ugh.

Exactly. It's very sad what happened to her (and thus her family), and you can certainly understand the emotional grief of her parents. There is nothing that can be done anymore to fix it though, she has died. Time to start the healing / grieving and move on.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,151
108
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Exactly. It's very sad what happened to her (and thus her family), and you can certainly understand the emotional grief of her parents. There is nothing that can be done anymore to fix it though, she has died. Time to start the healing / grieving and move on.

Agreed.

The medical field needs to retire the term "brain dead" because it seems to imply she is still "alive" somehow.

Secondly, as a man, I could not believe the father(?), IIRC, looked into the cameras with a straight face and said he's looking for her to "come home" with a full-recovery. :rolleyes:

I don't really think he believes that.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,724
48,541
136
Please don't let this morph into another Terri Schiavo. Ugh.

Don't worry, it's not an election year where "pro-lifers" need to obscure real issues with emotion and bullshit.

Pundits could try to resuscitate it in 2016 though.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,407
10,714
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WTF happened that minor surgery turned into a dead teenager? Medical malpractice? Adverse reaction to anesthesia? A one in a quadzillion coincidence?

She bled. Malpractice, or unknown blood thinner in her system.
Or... potentially just a normal risk of being sliced open, however minor it may appear.

Regardless, this comes down to the question of whether or no there is any chance for her to recover, to wake up. Some people claim that their loved ones have been declared brain dead and have later fully recovered. Such anecdotal stories cloud an otherwise clear purpose to let her rest in peace.

I don't know how anyone could make this decision.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
106
Please don't let this morph into another Terri Schiavo. Ugh.


Its been reported that the Schiavo group is helping them.

Maybe they can get Bill Frist to watch a video of the girl and pronounce her completely healed. :whiste:


I'm guessing at least 1 family can't let go and at least 1 other is trying to milk for as much money as they can get. Mix the 2 and we get this crazy mess.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Don't worry, it's not an election year where "pro-lifers" need to obscure real issues with emotion and bullshit.

Pundits could try to resuscitate it in 2016 though.

Looks like the girl is black. Republicans could claim this is a result of an Obamacare death panel trying to kill a poor minority girl :cool:
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,724
48,541
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I don't think this is as ground breaking as we're being led to believe. When I lived in Pensacola, FL, there was a distraught father who brought his dead newborn from out of state to the Brownsville mega church in a cooler. Those miracle working donation moguls can raise the dead apparently, but it sounds pretty disrespectful to cart someone's body around in a cooler for interstate travel, at least to me.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,724
48,541
136
Looks like the girl is black. Republicans could claim this is a result of an Obamacare death panel trying to kill a poor minority girl :cool:

They'd have to do it right though. Sorry Frist, this is a job for the Death Panel queen Bachmann!
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
930
126
Be careful, suggesting that she be removed from life support could be considered racist.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
39,866
33,494
136
So where are the pro-lifers and Fox News to step in a make a spectacle of this?

Why didn't Hannity do a remote at the hospital?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
WTF happened that minor surgery turned into a dead teenager? Medical malpractice? Adverse reaction to anesthesia? A one in a quadzillion coincidence?
trechnically it was NOT at all minor surgery...
It was a surgery performed to treat a sleep disorder...
Jahi McMath, 13, had a tonsillectomy this month to treat a sleep disorder but she began bleeding heavily after surgery and went into cardiac arrest.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
2,038
23
81
WTF happened that minor surgery turned into a dead teenager? Medical malpractice? Adverse reaction to anesthesia? A one in a quadzillion coincidence?


Thats more misinformation from the media that you heard. Her surgery was anything but minor. She had three surgeries done on her in one go...The tonsillectomy is usually considered minor however the other two are not minor at all [the media only talks about the tonsillectomy]. Her other two surgeries were a uvulopalatopharyngoplasty, and the removal of nasal turbinates was the third surgery. The latter two surgeries are high risk, its very possible you can bleed to death hours or even days after one of those surgeries [Jahi basically bled to death it sounds like].

As for them keeping her "alive", it is silly by this point. I understood why they kept her on a ventilator until after new years/Christmas, but the family is only basking in their denial now. That girl hasnt had oxygen to her brain in almost a month...It only takes 5 min to suffer severe brain damage, shes 100000% gone.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,407
10,714
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Thats more misinformation from the media that you heard. Her surgery was anything but minor. She had three surgeries done on her in one go...The tonsillectomy is usually considered minor however the other two are not minor at all [the media only talks about the tonsillectomy]. Her other two surgeries were a uvulopalatopharyngoplasty, and the removal of nasal turbinates was the third surgery. The latter two surgeries are high risk, its very possible you can bleed to death hours or even days after one of those surgeries [Jahi basically bled to death it sounds like].

First time I've heard any of this. Damn the media.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
If I am "brain dead", I want whoever is handling my situation to just pull the plug and let it be over. At that point, I'm already dead and if anything at all comes back it's not going to be really me.

I know someone whose daughter had a traumatic brain injury, and it's very sad that while her family goes through great lengths to care for her, she's a near vegetable and will almost certainly remain that way for the rest of her life.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,987
31,540
146
agreed. let her die.

IF you believe in God you are denying her spirit the chance to go to heaven with this.

IF you don't believe in God then i guess who cares. keep the body "alive" as long as YOU are paying the bill.

she is dead. and that's the thing here.

family is pathetic, imo

(not to discount how horrible this is for them, but they have turned this into a disgusting freak show)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,987
31,540
146
First time I've heard any of this. Damn the media.


really? That's all I've heard since the story broke--and that the family was well informed and iirc, were advised against the surgery.

seek different media?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,987
31,540
146
Agreed.

The medical field needs to retire the term "brain dead" because it seems to imply she is still "alive" somehow.

Secondly, as a man, I could not believe the father(?), IIRC, looked into the cameras with a straight face and said he's looking for her to "come home" with a full-recovery. :rolleyes:

I don't really think he believes that.


Of course he believes that. As he also claimed that Jesus will bring him a miracle. That was his rationale, anyway.

it does scary things to people.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,987
31,540
146
Here is part of the problem, nobody is talking about why a frequently performed surgery resulted in a dead child.
Also the family insisting on keeping her heart beating makes it more difficult to determine what killed her.
I feel horrible for this family to loose a child then have such trouble accepting what happened.

because there is nothing minor about the actual surgeries that were performed, or the condition of the girl as a candidate for such surgery.