Ivy to be 7-25% faster than Sandy plus 3x GPU performance

[IntelUser2000]

I was quite surprised by HD 3000s beating out Geforce 310s and Radeon 5450s, but then I noticed the clock speed, and I wasn't so surprised anymore.......

On graphics where the only performance output you care about is in one metric, unlike in CPUs that's split between single and multi-threads, it doesn't matter.

It may be high frequency, but they still can fit that in a 17W CPU and maintain about ~80% of the performance of the one that goes into 35/65/95W designs, meaning it still uses very little power.

Advanced power management techniques have rendered the argument "high frequency designs need more voltage, thus more power" mostly useless.

Here, 6990 vs 590: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4239/nvidias-geforce-gtx-590-duking-it-out-for-the-single-card-king/1

Different amount of ROPs, TMUs, shader units, clock speeds, memory frequency, yet in the end they perform about on par and use about the same power.

Performance/Power Design Target X: (Design Black Box - where they can do whatever they want but need to meet the other part of the equation)

 

[Puppies04]

Its looking like ivy bridge will have a nice ipc increase from these benchmarks. If ivy bridge has 10 percent increase in IPC, its looking like sandy bridge will be quite obsolete.

Erm IB is supposed to make SB obsolete or were you expecting intel to release a slower chip? On that note the perfomance point where a SB chip isn't enough but an equivalent IB part is will be so small that it isn't even worth mentioning. If you do something that requires more than SB you need SBE not IB.

And now back to the real world. Excluding 99% of the worlds computers that aren't used for gaming how many of the 1% need more than a 2500k or 2600k overclocked to 4.5ghz or higher... not many.

 

[Idontcare]

Erm IB is supposed to make SB obsolete or were you expecting intel to release a slower chip? On that note the perfomance point where a SB chip isn't enough but an equivalent IB part is will be so small that it isn't even worth mentioning. If you do something that requires more than SB you need SBE not IB.

And now back to the real world. Excluding 99% of the worlds computers that aren't used for gaming how many of the 1% need more than a 2500k or 2600k overclocked to 4.5ghz or higher... not many.

Not many consumers need automobiles that can accelerate from 0-60 in under 20seconds, and yet there is a healthy demand for them.

Like you, I have no idea why anyone buys a 2600K over a 2500K or a 1100T. (but of course I bought a 2600K for myself )

When I look at what everyone in my family does with their computers, they don't even need a 4yr old Q6600 at stock clocks, let alone a 5GHz IB. And yet I am pretty sure that each of them will come to own such a performance beast in due time, for what reason I have no idea.

Just as I have no idea why my minivan has a V6 in it, but it does, and I do so enjoy "punching it out" when I merge onto the interstate. Do I need a minivan that can go 120mph? No. But I intentionally bought one with the V6...it is fun, as far as minivans go anyways.

 

[bryanW1995]

troll troll troll your boat gently down the stream merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream .

Lets lok at who cause the least amount of crashes

Intel drivers do have a pretty bad reputation. Is it trolling to point out commonly held beliefs now? What about the IQ on the intel igp, have they fixed that yet or does it still suck?

Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have an intel laptop than AMD, but if I'm planning to do a decent amount of gaming on it then I'd go llano in a heartbeat.

 

[bryanW1995]

What exactly did AT say after the SB review 10% better than last generation . not in the real world.

I post an exerpt from an actual article and a link. You just post something that you think somebody might have said sometime. At least give us a link, or a quote, or something to back this up.

And btw, the 2600k is the nearest equivalent to i7 920, and it has a 25% clock speed advantage. I'm not sure at all what you're saying, sorry.

 

[Olikan]

Who would have thought you could do some light gaming in an Intel IGP a couple years ago? I certaintly did'nt think so.

This trend is good for everyone, and makes entry-level computers much more capable for folks. If PCs can get to a point where even cheap ones can play some decent games and do HD content easily, it really opens the platform up to the masses.

actually, it's just not good for nvidia XD

yeah! that's true... my dad have celeron 420 in his room, windons xp, and guess what? cpu power is more than enought for him, while the igp sucks alot. Even for YT videos at 360p.

 

[ElFenix]

Its looking like ivy bridge will have a nice ipc increase from these benchmarks.

more likely IB just turbos higher.


as for nehalem vs sandy, this is as close as i can find:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/143?vs=289

the nehalem has a bit more cache but the sandy has double the FSB

 

[bryanW1995]

Not many consumers need automobiles that can accelerate from 0-60 in under 20seconds, and yet there is a healthy demand for them.

Like you, I have no idea why anyone buys a 2600K over a 2500K or a 1100T. (but of course I bought a 2600K for myself )

When I look at what everyone in my family does with their computers, they don't even need a 4yr old Q6600 at stock clocks, let alone a 5GHz IB. And yet I am pretty sure that each of them will come to own such a performance beast in due time, for what reason I have no idea.

Just as I have no idea why my minivan has a V6 in it, but it does, and I do so enjoy "punching it out" when I merge onto the interstate. Do I need a minivan that can go 120mph? No. But I intentionally bought one with the V6...it is fun, as far as minivans go anyways.

I just lost all respect for you...

One time I signed up a buddy of mine on a minivan. He SWORE that it was just his family-mobile and that he'd never drive it. Guess what he drove to work the NEXT DAY???

oops, back OT: Sometimes people just get the hand me down computer. That's how my mom has a Q6600, and I'm planning to pass down the i7 920 to her in the next 12-18 mos. You know, just in case email gets a whole lot more cpu intensive in the future.

 

[Idontcare]

Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have an intel laptop than AMD, but if I'm planning to do a decent amount of gaming on it then I'd go llano in a heartbeat.

I whole-heartedly thought the same. Was tired of my Intel laptop's crappy IGP and the driver crashes all the time when playing light/old games (Alpha Centauri, MOO, etc). So I was all set to wait it out until Llano lappies arrived for my upgrade.

Then they got here and the price/performance was atrocious. Then I learned about Nvidia optimus. Then I checked out the benches, then I checked out the prices. Then I bought an Intel lappie with Optimus and an NV GPU.

No crashes, and I mean zero, and graphics work great. Llano might have been just as good, or possibly better, but the price premium was a deal-killer for me. Especially once you factor in the 2-steps back you take in terms of CPU performance.

Trinity might change this, performance-wise, but they got to do something about the pricing disparity if they want to gain market traction against the existing Intel/NV optimus offerings IMO.

 

[IntelUser2000]

the nehalem has a bit more cache but the sandy has double the FSB

What FSB? Since the Nehalem generation the Front Side Bus does not exist.

At the same price point for desktops top-to-top they were aiming 20%. That's LGA1155 2600K vs the LGA1156 i7-870 and 880.

What about the IQ on the intel igp, have they fixed that yet or does it still suck?

The IQ issue is due to lackluster texture filtering. Clarkdale and Sandy Bridge claims to have 16X AF but it functions like a 2X one. Ivy Bridge is said to have fully addressed that.

 

[Idontcare]

I just lost all respect for you...

One time I signed up a buddy of mine on a minivan. He SWORE that it was just his family-mobile and that he'd never drive it. Guess what he drove to work the NEXT DAY???

oops, back OT: Sometimes people just get the hand me down computer. That's how my mom has a Q6600, and I'm planning to pass down the i7 920 to her in the next 12-18 mos. You know, just in case email gets a whole lot more cpu intensive in the future.

Its an interesting bias that gets built into the stigma surrounding mini-vans. If there were no bias then there would be no stigma, and if there were no stigma then there would be no bias.

I needed the minivan, our family had simply grown to exceed the accommodations of our 4-dr accord...but I resisted the purchase far longer than I should have for no other reason than I wanted to avoid inviting the stigma that comes with reaching that milestone life. Now when I think about it I realize just how much of an anti-minivan fanboy I was.

Somewhere in there I think I just subtly equated Zambezi to a minivan, roomy enough for 8, terrible gas mileage, not a top-performer speed-wise, but in the end she gets the job done and who doesn't want the comfort of knowing their kids are protected by side-curtain airbags the size of a mattress?

 

[Blitzvogel]

On graphics where the only performance output you care about is in one metric, unlike in CPUs that's split between single and multi-threads, it doesn't matter.

It may be high frequency, but they still can fit that in a 17W CPU and maintain about ~80% of the performance of the one that goes into 35/65/95W designs, meaning it still uses very little power.

Advanced power management techniques have rendered the argument "high frequency designs need more voltage, thus more power" mostly useless.

Here, 6990 vs 590: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4239/nvidias-geforce-gtx-590-duking-it-out-for-the-single-card-king/1

Different amount of ROPs, TMUs, shader units, clock speeds, memory frequency, yet in the end they perform about on par and use about the same power.

Performance/Power Design Target X: (Design Black Box - where they can do whatever they want but need to meet the other part of the equation)

It's pretty well known that AMDs per-transistor performance is a good deal better than Nvidia's when it comes to games, but we also know that Nvidia's designs and CUDA are also designed around each other so there is plenty of "waste" in their chip design in regards to DirectX, certainly more "waste" than AMD. You're talking about 2.6 billion transistors (per Cayman) vs 3 billion in GF110 (and of course Nvidia still has the 2x tessellation performance too). Intel also has the process node advantage at the same node size, as well as now being on 22 nm, so they get the advantage there as well.

To we even have TDP/TDW numbers for the Intel HD 3000? The fact they are absorbed into the CPU's makes things skewed a bit, but of course advantageous to the Intel HD series. If you're going to argue that the ramifications of the power consumption of Intel HD graphics are just about moot, then I won't argue there. If you're going to argue over Intel's ability to design (I said DESIGN, NOT PRODUCE) graphics processors of the same quality and efficiency as AMD or Nvidia, especially if they were all theoretically on the same exact process, I will.

 

[Khato]

Interesting results on the graphics side. Especially the fact that the performance preset sees more of a gain than the entry.

Anyway, a 199% gain over the HD2000 would put HD4000 at a GPU score of 2460P. This is compared to the ~3700P that an A8 3850 gets with DDR3 1866 (drops to ~3100P with the DDR3 1333.) So it's definitely still a fair amount behind in raw performance on that metric... Still impressive to see an 86% gain in performance in one generation that also promises to fix all the issues with SB. If they manage the same percentage gain with Haswell Intel would be at a score of 4580P... Will AMD keep up? Or are they currently enjoying the largest lead they'll ever have on integrated graphics thanks to having used markedly more die space?

 

[Silverforce11]

AMD APUs will feel some heat in 2012.

Nope, AMD APUs are too far ahead, by the time IvB hits, there's already new APUs out with next gen radeon cores. Seen those demonstration of Deus Ex and Dirt 3 running awesome on trinity? Well, the APU after trinity is what IvB has to compete with.

The only time when i see Intel rivalling AMD APU is when TSMC utter fails in the transition to 20nm. Which is more likely than intel actually designing a better iGPU.

 

[Lex Luger]

You say you dont need more than 4.5 sandy bridge, but I can list many games thats would benefit from ridiculous amounts of cpu power, most are mods though

Elder Scrolls 3 with graphics extender, would have no problem eating up 6 ghz of sandy bridge power if properly configured(only uses one core, but renders the whole map)

Elder Scrolls 4 with tons of cells loaded up, you can easily mod the engine to load up the entire game map in full quality, even though game engine uses 3 cores, I doubt 6 ghz quad would be enough to load it all and run full speed (plus you would need at least 3 gb of video ram)

Medieval 2 total war only uses 1 core, and since siege battles can be 5000 vs 5000, 6 ghz sandy might not be enough, I can say that 4.6 ghz sandy falls short from own experience

Command and Conquer Generals allows you to mod the amount of zoom and when done so against 7 bots on 8 player map 2500k at 4.6 stutters, not enough cpu power

Then you get into emulation area, I can say from experience that 2500k at 4.6 isnt quite enough for running dolphin emulator games at full speed throughout the full game. Some of the most popular games experience periodic slowdowns.

Even the more recent total war games like shogun and empire would benefit greatly from more cpu power, especially on campaign maps where there is long periods between turns where cpu makes many calculations. If cpu was faster, time would be shorter.

Mount and blade allows 1000 man battles, 4.6 sandy isnt enough for even 700 ish.

You can never have enough ghz. Well maybe 10 ghz quad would be enough. For now...

 

[Tuna-Fish]

The article mentions that the built-in HD Graphics improvements of Ivy Bridge are meant to compete with "entry-level" discrete graphics cards - does this mean if you buy Ivy Bridge with an H67 board, you don't need a graphics card for a HTPC?

Present-gen Intel integrated doesn't properly support 23.976FPS media streams, which makes it unsuitable for HTPC use. If it did, it would certainly be good enough.

Let's hope they fix that this time around.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Intel needs to fix their drivers to provide true HTPC 24P support before I ever consider a standalone IB system.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I post an exerpt from an actual article and a link. You just post something that you think somebody might have said sometime. At least give us a link, or a quote, or something to back this up.

And btw, the 2600k is the nearest equivalent to i7 920, and it has a 25% clock speed advantage. I'm not sure at all what you're saying, sorry.

Come on AT said in his orginal review 10%. As for the IB in an ultra ya . But I will look real hard at what NV is offering for sure. For myself it would be IB for other family members like the grandchildren NV could very well be the right choice. IB IGP has a nice gain but as I said I still need an NV GPU . Haswell now thats suppose to be 15X what present SB is . Thats a game changer.

 

[Nemesis 1]

What is it with this 23P vs 24P whats it effect . My movies at HD are great . Gaming I haven't a clue as i use NV gpu. Same will apply to IB i still need to go NV gpu . I think its all talking points . We here do like to chat and aren't glued to boob tube

 

[Blitzvogel]

Come on AT said in his orginal review 10%. As for the IB in an ultra ya . But I will look real hard at what NV is offering for sure. For myself it would be IB for other family members like the grandchildren NV could very well be the right choice. IB IGP has a nice gain but as I said I still need an NV GPU . Haswell now thats suppose to be 15X what present SB is . Thats a game changer.

15x may sound super nice and dandy, but not everyone requires 60 FPS, 16x AF, and some form of super heavy AA. The HD 4000 will certainly get many people in the door as far as PC gaming goes, and that is certainly better for PC gaming in general. In my mind I can make a giant of list of games that I could probably play on it, and I have a general idea of what kind of settings they could run at too. While I would be unlikely to buy a larger notebook without dedicated graphics, on the smaller end (13.3/14 in), Ivy Bridge is a interesting proposition, especially with the lack of high end Llano options on such notebook sizes. I don't expect Trinity to really change that either...........

 

[Nemesis 1]

more likely IB just turbos higher.


as for nehalem vs sandy, this is as close as i can find:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/143?vs=289

the nehalem has a bit more cache but the sandy has double the FSB

Best bet is to search forum for review date and read the topic on the review. Bet ya get a link.

 

[exar333]

15x may sound super nice and dandy, but not everyone requires 60 FPS, 16x AF, and some form of super heavy AA. The HD 4000 will certainly get many people in the door as far as PC gaming goes, and that is certainly better for PC gaming in general.

This. My feelings exactly.

 

[Nemesis 1]

15x may sound super nice and dandy, but not everyone requires 60 FPS, 16x AF, and some form of super heavy AA. The HD 4000 will certainly get many people in the door as far as PC gaming goes, and that is certainly better for PC gaming in general.

This point here is the only one that I care about . Bring game makers back to PC platform . Your thinking the right way . We are in perfect accord on your statement.

 

[Blitzvogel]

This point here is the only one that I care about . Bring game makers back to PC platform . Your thinking the right way . We are in perfect accord on your statement.

LOL I'm an idiot I keep thinking Haswell is an Nvidia GPU (Maxwell correct?).............

Basically I'm all for cheap graphics performance, but I'm not at all against dedicated graphics. The performance advantage they present versus even Llano is way too valuable to me to just see them get rendered obsolete, and to be honest it scares me to think that APUs could kill the dedicated graphics market, but I don't think it will with the huge advantage that the middle and high still enjoy. 60 GB/s bandwidth on an APU? Not anytime soon, but I would love to see it happen in a form that is cheap and power efficient. That kind of bandwidth is what Llano should have as to keep it completely fed.

 

[Vesku]

I whole-heartedly thought the same. Was tired of my Intel laptop's crappy IGP and the driver crashes all the time when playing light/old games (Alpha Centauri, MOO, etc). So I was all set to wait it out until Llano lappies arrived for my upgrade.

Then they got here and the price/performance was atrocious. Then I learned about Nvidia optimus. Then I checked out the benches, then I checked out the prices. Then I bought an Intel lappie with Optimus and an NV GPU.

No crashes, and I mean zero, and graphics work great. Llano might have been just as good, or possibly better, but the price premium was a deal-killer for me. Especially once you factor in the 2-steps back you take in terms of CPU performance.

Trinity might change this, performance-wise, but they got to do something about the pricing disparity if they want to gain market traction against the existing Intel/NV optimus offerings IMO.

Hmm, initial pricing was actually pretty sweet for the Llano when I checked. HP had A8 with 6750 dedicated for $650 in BB at launch, IIRC. However, Intel quickly made some sort of price compromise with OEMs because it didn't take long for i5-2430M notebooks solo or with Geforce 5xx series graphics to drop into the same price brackets as Llano and Llano + gpu. Some of that is supply constraints on Llano, that's why Llano prices haven't dropped to maintain a 15+% lead on price. However, part of it is that Intel has a lot more pull with manufacturers and I'm saying this outside the "monopoly practices" subject that Intel paid back a small amount of profit to make go away. They have the staff and the money to maintain business relationships on a level AMD can not. The ultrabook rollout is a good example of this. Also Intel pushing pin costs to motherboard makers. That's just business at work and in the case of the notebook market I think it's been good for consumers this cycle.