I've never seen so many unrepentant former Nazis in my life

[spidey07]

Well part of that was a kick in the pants to be sure, but while neither citizens or corporations were physically owned by the Nazis, you did what they told you. You know what happened if you didn't.

The other part is that the government can make it quite unpleasant if you don't follow their rules even if it's the right thing to do, and many want to extend that control. I've cited an sad example elsewhere that was met with "well nothing's perfect".

I needn't go into that again.

I can has pay czar? How about a president that demonizes your industry?

It all too similar to hitler.

 

[Red Dawn]

I can has pay czar? How about a president that demonizes your industry?

It all too similar to hitler.

As usual you are talking out your ass. You know that you and Hitler have something in common? Like you he was proud of his race.

 

[spidey07]

As usual you are talking out your ass. You know that you and Hitler have something in common? Like you he was proud of his race.

Do we or do we not have a president attacking private industry using the fear of punishment or legislative/executive penalty?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Don't add further to the idiocy by ignoring the differences between fascism and socialism.

Industry is a center of wealth generation, governments' power derives in part from it.

That's not particular to any ideology. While every credible form of government involves some relationship between industry and government, there are big differences.

You might recall the end goal of communism was essentially no government at all. That's about as practical as your argument of fascism and socialism's similarity.

Hitler's 'control' of industry included a militarist government and authoritarianism; a socialist government is more likely to 'control' industry to protect the people from exploitation.

For example, Chile nationalized its copper mining, its top resource, away from US corporations who were extracting massive wealth. This was credited with greatly aiding their economy, keeping the wealth in Chilean society (and somewhat in the better buildings helping in the earthquake) - it's a far different motive than fascist control.

If you can't tell the difference between the 'control' practiced by a Nazi Germany and a Sweden, you need to get a bit more informed.

See my prior response as a partial answer.

The problem with government control is that it totalitarian by it's very nature. The difference is it's intent and the degree it's willing to exert it's power to achieve it's goals.

Now I'm not going to suggest that Sweden is Germany because it isn't. The people have arrived at a more or less harmonious arrangement between business, the citizen and government.

We however are more concerned with political gain than they are. Here we are always battling for who's going to control what. Now in theory if politicians were people who weren't trying to gain power and refill their war chests by virtually any means, then we might have a similar system. That still leaves the philosophical arguments, but for now let's not complicate the issue with the specious.

Simply put, real world American power is a dynamic tension between a government controlled by political parties and large private entities such as corporations and powerful unions. The politicians will pander to whomever they consider most likely to get them re-elected, and the party system makes sure that no one too far off the platform has the opportunity to screw up their hold.

Where does that leave us? A nation which indeed has a collaboration between the most powerful and wealthy businesses and government. The first are allowed to thrive with certain restraints, and the latter get's it's piggy bank filled.

Occasionally out of this things happen. Sometimes good and sometimes not.

Of the two controlling establishments (those who offer the money and those who take) it is the latter which has the most dramatic direct effect on it's citizens, and if it decides to enact something for the "good" which isn't, you cannot oppose it if it does not wish.

Government has absolute control, and that it is occasionally benign doesn't change that. Hopefully, it consists of people who are genuinely thoughtful and thoroughly responsible, because no matter what, they will be obeyed. If on the other hand, it constructs something that serves it's political purposes and may or may not be good, well it's the same.

You may have read about a well intended policy (which I agree with in principle) that has effectively doomed at least one person to death. Did the government plan to execute him? Of course not, but it might as well have. By not undertaking to understand the consequences of it's actions, it has bound the citizens to obey a fatally flawed policy, with fatal being quite literal.

Now it's a matter of time before someone notices what's going on and some accommodation will be made, however this could have been avoided. Our government is inherently top down though, and getting the right people to listen before they act often does not work.

I'm not anti-government in all cases, however when the system is riddled with incompetence and corruption, I'm reluctant to allow the expansion of it's power until it outgrows it's petty nature and hubris and understands that it's intended to be the servant, not the master.

You've suggested that putting more Progressives in office would be a way to go about improving things, but in reality you won't get the chance any more than the more ardent free market types will. It ruins it for the party if something happens to upset the apple cart, and you will be put down at the national level.

While I realize you weren't necessarily addressing the US in particular, you distinctly favor a more socialist type state (and I'm not using that as a pejorative), but that means more power in OUR case for those who's base instincts are their highest aspirations, with too few exception.

 

[Red Dawn]

Do we or do we not have a president attacking private industry using the fear of punishment or legislative/executive penalty?

Such as and the correlation between that and Hitler?

 

[BudAshes]

Theleft are nzis!!! Omg nazis you are scared of nazis be scared of the left!!@!!@

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Theleft are nzis!!! Omg nazis you are scared of nazis be scared of the left!!@!!@

Did you eat your meat? Because if you didn't you can't have any pudding. How can you have pudding if you don't eat your meat???

 

[BudAshes]

The real blame for nazis is the bible. BLAME THE BIBLE.

 

[theeedude]

I was at the Hotel de Invalides museum in Paris, and there were some skinhead type kids there having a jolly old time taking pictures with Nazi memorabilia, flags, and Hitler posters while throwing various hand signs.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I was at the Hotel de Invalides museum in Paris, and there were some skinhead type kids there having a jolly old time taking pictures with Nazi memorabilia, flags, and Hitler posters while throwing various hand signs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KyKdM-4uZw

 

[Codewiz]

I know the thread started out about Nazis. But I am sorry, the moment spidey said Obama=Hitler, he further proved Godwin's law and therefore loses the argument automatically.

Same with the people that said Bush=Hitler.

Sorry but you all lose automatically.

 

[boomerang]

I think anyone who is even remotely considering buying this bullshit should mosey on over to Stormfront and discover how they really feel about liberals. They are on the "Great Day of the Rope" hit list right after Jews.

- wolf

You're melding together the Nazi movement of the 30's and modern day wannabe Nazi's. The OP was referring to modern day, but the thread quickly changed over to the roots of the Nazi's of the pre WWII era.

 

[Budmantom]

"I've never seen so many unrepentant former Nazis in my life"



Are you talking about the White House, Dimocrat party or the leftists on this forum?

 

[Lemon law]

"I've never seen so many unrepentant former Nazis in my life"



Are you talking about the White House, Dimocrat party or the leftists on this forum?

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No I am more talking about Spidey7, and the GOP who most closely resemble Hitler tactics at the present point in time.

The sad thing about Hitler is that his tactics are not unique, but instead lie deeply ingrained in human nature. Hitler was certainly no genius, but he had some genius in exploiting the flaws in human nature. And a certain talent in choosing weak people with great abilities, that he could play off, one against another.

In many ways, 'The rise and fall of the third Reich" by Albert Speer is the definitive book on the subject, and maybe no one can start to understand Hitler without a study of that book.

 

[Budmantom]

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No I am more talking about Spidey7, and the GOP who most closely resemble Hitler tactics at the present point in time.

The sad thing about Hitler is that his tactics are not unique, but instead lie deeply ingrained in human nature. Hitler was certainly no genius, but he had some genius in exploiting the flaws in human nature. And a certain talent in choosing weak people with great abilities, that he could play off, one against another.

In many ways, 'The rise and fall of the third Reich" by Albert Speer is the definitive book on the subject, and maybe no one can start to understand Hitler without a study of that book.

LOL leftists...

So the party that doesn't have any power in the WH, House or Senate and can't get a thing done or a bill passed resembles the Nazi party and Hitler, while Barrack Hussein Obama and the Dimocratic party is taking over the banks, car companies, insurance companies, taking over health car - calling out Big Oil, Big Insurance, Fox, Rush etc.... and I'm sure you have no problems with that...

 

[Ozoned]

I never realized there were so many until I saw this documentary: The Nazis: A Warning from history. While I hope that nothing like that ever happens again, I cannot help but survey Europe today and see so many right-wing parties in power. Instead of going after Jews, now they are targeting immigrants. By the way, has anyone thoroughly documented Hitler's beef against the Jews and has there been a thorough rebuttal? I ask because there are so many neo-Nazis and rightwingers. Instead of labelling them wackos and crazies, have people actually tried rebutting their accusations in a logical manner?

The modern rightwingers would have been considered pacifists in hitlers time.

How would you feel about the Nazis if they had won the war?

 

[spidey07]

LOL leftists...

So the party that doesn't have any power in the WH, House or Senate and can't get a thing done or a bill passed resembles the Nazi party and Hitler, while Barrack Hussein Obama and the Dimocratic party is taking over the banks, car companies, insurance companies, taking over health car - calling out Big Oil, Big Insurance, Fox, Rush etc.... and I'm sure you have no problems with that...

BINGO! If anybody can't see the similarities is being intellectually dishonest or they didn't learn from history.

 

[Tab]

lol hiel george bush he reminds me of such a facist just like hitler

 

[Tab]

BINGO! If anybody can't see the similarities is being intellectually dishonest or they didn't learn from history.

or you just an idiot

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

BINGO! If anybody can't see the similarities is being intellectually dishonest or they didn't learn from history.

You know I have a good deal of concerns over current policies (nothing new here), however I'll tell you a little story about some people I knew.

A brief boring bio for context.

I grew up in a very poor inner city Philadelphia. By the time I was ready to begin high school I accumulated a number of scars which I still bear. It wasn't fun.

The local past time was to set out on the stoop and listen to people tell of how they ripped of welfare again and what liquor store they had or were going to rob.

Needless to say it wasn't a particularly pleasant time.

I was smart enough to be able to get into one of the best programs in the school system in an area where I was white trash by virtue of where I was raised. That wasn't warm and fuzzy either.

I was befriended by a guy who was Jewish. Until this time I hadn't known anything about the culture, other than history.

For some reason that I can't explain to this day they took a liking to me, and the mother insisted I come by for lunch or dinner. At first I was a bit suspicious, not being used to kindness like this. I suspected I was the token goy.

I was completely mistaken. They really did like me although it was a complete mystery why they should.

This household had three generations in it, with half of them having come over from Europe. Several had marks on them.

I asked my friend Scott about this, and he explained that many of his relatives had gone to concentration camps, and only a few escaped death.

These people lived some of the harshest lives imaginable, yet they found it in their hearts to make me feel as one of the family, someone who was utterly unused to their religion, culture or kindness. Until then I expected that if someone was showing compassion it was because they ultimately expected something in return.

I've never forgotten them over all the years, and have met the like only once or twice since them.

What they lived through, how they suffered is not something that you or I can comprehend, and frankly I don't want to.

All that said, I have more respect for them and others like them than I can say. If I thought for a moment our leaders and his their people were like those who tortured and murdered these wonderful humans I would strike them down with my own hand the moment I was sure.

While I do not approve of much I see, I have yet the desire to reach for a weapon and act, and you can believe I take these things very seriously.

There is far too much hyperbole going on in this thread.

 

[spidey07]

<snip>
There is far too much hyperbole going on in this thread.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm comparing Obamas words, actions and idealogy to pre-war Hitler from a private industry and freedom perspective.

Private industry and personal prosperity is Obama's jew. He wants to destroy them at all cost. This is what Obama views as "social and economic justice", make no mistake about it. His words, deeds and actions define it.

 

[BudAshes]

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm comparing Obamas words, actions and idealogy to pre-war Hitler from a private industry and freedom perspective.

Private industry and personal prosperity is Obama's jew. He wants to destroy them at all cost. This is what Obama views as "social and economic justice", make no mistake about it. His words, deeds and actions define it.

There is a difference between personal prosperity and obscene wealth. People are sick of old money running the world. Old people have fucked this world beyond belief and we are stuck trying to fix it.

 

[Lemon law]

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm comparing Obamas words, actions and idealogy to pre-war Hitler from a private industry and freedom perspective.

Private industry and personal prosperity is Obama's jew. He wants to destroy them at all cost. This is what Obama views as "social and economic justice", make no mistake about it. His words, deeds and actions define it.

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Don't be an idiot or a stooge spidey07, there is in fact a concept of social and economic justice. If we allow too much power to any group, be it socialistic or purely private industry, that imbalance will screw everything up and propel us to a Haitian style economy.

If we want to solely look at it as a health care issue, the handwriting is on the wall, the system of employer based private insurance companies has only seen a huge increase in health care as a part of GDP. From 8% of the economy to the present 22%, and with no end in sight. If nothing is done now, the entire system will inevitably soon collapse as all private employers will be forced to opt out.

Nor has private industry even operated in its own best interests, look at the bankers, look at Eron, every time we relax government regulation, we get a disasters similar to the Reagan engineered S&L crisis of yesteryear.

Liberal and conservatives, they are no different, everyone wants something for nothing, but right now, its the GOP conservatives that are the greatest rascals. And you spidey07, are one of the greatest mental midgets on this forum.

 

[Narmer]

You're melding together the Nazi movement of the 30's and modern day wannabe Nazi's. The OP was referring to modern day, but the thread quickly changed over to the roots of the Nazi's of the pre WWII era.

I was talking about real Nazis. The ones that were part of the Nazi party or Hitler's coterie.

 

[boomerang]

I was talking about real Nazis. The ones that were part of the Nazi party or Hitler's coterie.

Well, I apologize if I misunderstood, however my assumption was based on this;

I ask because there are so many neo-Nazis and rightwingers.