I've got a perplexing PC problem, and I'm about to just part out my system and go Intel now...

[dotnetguy]

OK guys, I build servers and PC's as a hobby. I' also a senior .NET developer and basically make my living solving computer and programming problems, as well as creating windows and web-based software. I've never seen a problem like this before, and I've tried every possible utility and have swapped out parts, etc.

This is my first AMD based system, and I'm about ready to part it out, sell everything on eBay and go with an Intel 930-based system instead.

My problem is that if I am gaming my framerate will slowly drop from 100+ fps in various games down to nothing and then eventually the game will drop me from multiplayer or crash altogether. My CPU voltage and temp are within normal ranges. Basically my CPU never goes over 46c, idles around 40c, and voltages never fluctuate really. My video card never goes over 75c as far as I can tell, amd is usually around 60c idle. I always leave the temp/system status windows open on the other monitor. Now, what is even more strange is that if i dont play any games and simply leave WindowsXP Pro running overnight, the PC will eventually freeze. All programs will crash or hang, and the system will become unstable to the point of having to hard-reboot it.

My system consists of the following and has been running about 3-4 months now:

- Asus A8N-SLI-Deluxe Motherboard w/ v1016-001 bios (date is 11/09/2005)
- Antec TruePower II TPII-400 430w PSU
- Antec Lanboy2 Case
- 2 GB of Corsair XMS DDR-333 (512x4) serial is CMX512-3200C2
- AMD Athlon64 X2 Dual Core 4400+ CPU Socket 939
- eVGA NVidia 6800GT 256mb PCI-E Video Card
- Arctic Cooling Freezer64 CPU Cooler w/ Arctic Silver 5 compound
- (2) WD SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 7200rp SATA/3gb in RAID0 on Nforce4 Raid Controller
- (2) Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 ST3160827AS 160gb SATA/1.5gb in RAID0 on Marvell Controller
- Creative Labs SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum
- NEC DVD-RW ND-3520A
- Dual ViewSonic VP-191b (v2) monitors using DVI connections
- Logitech Z-680 5.1 Surround System
- Windows XP Pro SP2 + all updates (have tried several fresh installs), actual purchased copy.

Do you guys have any ideas? Is it just a bad motherboard maybe? Recommend any tools I can use to monitor the system?

Also, I'm not new here but I lost my username/pass so I just created a new account since i was unable to retrieve the old account.

Thanks,

- dotnetguy

 

[Bozo Galora]

freezing with time even only in XP would tend to indicate either rising temps or sagging voltages - mobo or PSU. With a 6800 you are a bit low on PSU, despite those who would say "thats plenty". You have a ton of stuff there. Having spent that much money, I think an OCZ 600W is more appropriate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817711001

An easy check for vidcard probs is to pull it and use ebay PCI $20 VGA card and see if PC stays on just in XP (2D)

however you might feel ramplates to see how hot they feel, and some utility to check NB temp. Dont know if Asus has it in bios or bios related utility. You really need a number here.

In a situation like this, an LCD readout temp sensor probe comes in handy.

Edit: Just noticed you use 2 monitors, - I would disconnect one to test things that way.

 

[Gerbil333]

2 GB of Corsair XMS DDR-333 (512x4) serial is CMX512-3200C2

Try only two sticks of RAM set to 2.5-3-3-7, and don't forget to put them in the proper slots (see manual). BTW, that's DDR400, not 333. Do you have it set to the correct speed?

 

[bob4432]

any game in particular?

as other have stated, i would pull 2 of the ram sticks out, run memtest over ngiht and see if that does anything. the memory controller on the a64 is not 100% happy with 4 sticks although it can be done.

power is a bit on the low side since you have 4 hdds and a optical drive along with a dc cpu and i am sure more than 1 fan. maybe look at something in the 500W range with brands such as enermax, enhance, seasonic, antec, fortron(fsp) to name a few of the respected ones.

 

[BFG10K]

The gaming problems sound like a dual-core glitch. See if things improve by setting one of your cores to zero affinity.

Also make sure you have the latest chipset drivers installed and the latest dual-core fixes from AMD and Microsoft.

 

[dotnetguy]

Thanks for the advice guys-

What is wierd is that after a reset-button reboot, everything is back to normal and the counter counts down again to system instability or low framerate in games.

The slowdown in frames per second happens in any game i play. I start with 150+fps in a game, a couple hours later it is a solid 40fps, then the game eventually crashes. Battlefield 2, CounterStrike:Source, Call of Duty 2, you name it.

I can't see that this is a temperature issue as I am using ASUS PC Probe for system temps as well as an actual diode on the motherboard and an LCD readout. my system temps are around 28c at peak, motherboard is around that or 30, and processor never goes over 46c really, which is good for an athlon64.

I will test the memory and maybe yank the video card.

Also tried disabling of one of the cores both overnight and before rebooting and starting a game and any dual-core related updates, no help there.


- dotnetguy

 

[dotnetguy]

Originally posted by: Bozo Galora
freezing with time even only in XP would tend to indicate either rising temps or sagging voltages - mobo or PSU. With a 6800 you are a bit low on PSU, despite those who would say "thats plenty". You have a ton of stuff there. Having spent that much money, I think an OCZ 600W is more appropriate.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817711001

No matter how much money I have, i just cant bring myself to spend $200 + shipping on a PSU. I'm looking at a Seasonic S12-600 600w for $149 shipped, or a Silverstone SST-ST50EF 500w for $100 shipped.

Also, the problem was there before I added the SE16 WD3200KS 320gb drivs as well... which leads me away from thinking there is a PSU deficiency. Wouldnt i notice an alarm on the voltages? I always keep the monitors (ASUS PC Probe, AI booster, etc.) running on my other desktop while playing games or using the system 24/7



- dotnetguy

 

[greenmaji]

check the PSU sticky.. you should be able to find more amps on the 12V rail for less to be perfectly honest with you..

 

[dotnetguy]

Originally posted by: greenmaji
check the PSU sticky.. you should be able to find more amps on the 12V rail for less to be perfectly honest with you..

Been researching the PSU possibility, but I dont think that is what is causing it. I'm going to try a new PSU (the Silverstone 500w - 630w peak w/ PFC and 36a on the 12v's -ST50EF looks good for the price ~$100 ) anyway tho just as a test plus this Antec didn't get any good reviews and is kinda old.

- dotnetguy

 

[furballi]

Why don't you take the MB out of the case and strip it down. Connect only the mouse, keyboard and ONE HDD. Zero format the HDD and clean install windows. Now load one game and retest.

Of course you also need to clear the CMOS and make sure that your RAMs are okay at stock settings. Use Memtest test #5 and #8. Run 10 passes.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Open your old antec psu and you will find bulging c(r)aps with brown stains on the aluminum top plates...OK

Here's a unit that has build quality equal to Seasonic...If not better. It meets the http://www.80plus.org/ standard. http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-EN5150G You will be very hard pressed to find better for $75 and it will not only meet your needs, it will exceed them. Here is the pdf on this fine unit http://www.enhanceusa.com/file/72_specification.pdf The unit at eWiz is silver and don't let that concern you, as the unit is the same.

If you wish for overkill look at the other Enhance PSUs at the linked site.

Now offer this board some imput in our OS & Software Forums


...Galvanized

 

[furballi]

If you strip the MB and still have problem, then we're down to PSU, MB, or CPU. If you're lazy, then swap out the PSU and recheck the system for problem.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: furballi
If you strip the MB and still have problem, then we're down to PSU, MB, or CPU. If you're lazy, then swap out the PSU and recheck the system for problem.

furballi, you are probably much more comp savy than I am but the TP 430 is infamous for electrolytics going bad. Ask FlyingPenguin how his killed 5 HDDs in his main rig before he finally changed out his TP 430. At my prompting via PM he opened the unit. To read what he found http://theflyingpenguin.com/ >Blog>in September, 2005...OK.

Most rebranded PSUs are good for three years, this is the way it just seems to be.


...Galvanized

 

[spikespiegal]

I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with AMD -vs- Intel.

 

[greenmaji]

Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with AMD -vs- Intel.

Don't consern yourself with that, the probiblity of the problems he is having being related to the CPU are extreamly minute.

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with AMD -vs- Intel.

OP cant figure out his problem so it has to be an "AMD THING"
thing is OP is low on power...
dont ever skimp on power... it is the heart and soul of your PC...

and hes runnign 4 sticks of ram which 939 A64s dont much like..
if you want 2 gigs buy 2 1 GB sticks not 4 512s...
system slows down and can be buggy with 4 sticks.. DC works best with 2 sticks.

Asus A8N-SLI-Deluxe Motherboard w/ v1016-001 bios (date is 11/09/2005)
1 other VERY important thing... check that board for a failing chipset fan..
that is an NOTORIOUS culprit for that board..
that is why i bought mine with a premuims heatpipe installed.

http://mental18.phpbbweb.com/mental18.html

this is a 100% A8N-SLI support board staffed by off duty ASUS techs..
everything you ever wanted to know about this board.

 

[greenmaji]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Open your old antec psu and you will find bulging c(r)aps with brown stains on the aluminum top plates...OK

Here's a unit that has build quality equal to Seasonic...If not better. It meets the http://www.80plus.org/ standard. http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-EN5150G You will be very hard pressed to find better for $75 and it will not only meet your needs, it will exceed them. Here is the pdf on this fine unit http://www.enhanceusa.com/file/72_specification.pdf The unit at eWiz is silver and don't let that concern you, as the unit is the same.

If you wish for overkill look at the other Enhance PSUs at the linked site.

Now offer this board some imput in our OS & Software Forums


...Galvanized

The voltage regulation specs. on that PSU are EXELLENT!! Great PSU suggesstion Galvanized :thumbsup:

 

[dotnetguy]

Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with AMD -vs- Intel.

Well, this is my first AMD rig, my previous Intel systems ran flawlessly. My last Intel box every expert told me should kick out tons of heat and have a lot of issues. But it ran awesome. Now I have nothing but issues, and I even have some software that I depend on as a developer that won't run (crashes on start) on this box that I can run on every other system including my Dell XPS Gen 2 laptop.

This was my old system I recently sold (which i kinda miss since i ran it over 3 months without rebooting and without a single issue):

Case: Antec Lanboy v2
Processor: Intel P4 3.0ghz Prescott
Motherboard: SuperMicro P4SCT+ Motherboard w/64bit PCI Slots
Memory: 1 Gig DDR Ballistix CL2 (4x256meg)
Storage: (4) Seagate 120gb SATA-150 ST3120026AS in RAID5 Configuration (HotSwappable)
RAID Controller: 3WARE/AMCC 9500S-4LP Low-Profile SATA RAID Card in 64-bit Mode
Audio: Audigy 2 ZS Gamer Limited Edition
Video: EVGA nVidia 6800GT 256mb AGP 8x
Drives: Pioneer (Black) DVR108 16x Dual Layer DVD-R|+R|RW/CD-R/CD-RW
Removable: Mitsumi (Black) 7-in-1 Card Reader + 1.44mb Floppy Combo - $26.99
Power: Enermax EG475AX-VE (G)/(W)SFMA PFC 470W PSU Copper-Shielding / SATA


- dotnetguy

 

[Bozo Galora]

Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I'm still trying to figure out what this has to do with AMD -vs- Intel.

he is saying he has never had any new setup severe probs with his several Intel Rigs

I think all the gaming?RAM stuff is irrelevant if the PC freezes to a hard reboot after JUST SITIING for 8 hours. Actually, these are the classic signs of bad filter caps on an older (2-4 years) mobo. I have experienced these symptoms many times in the distant past. So I tend to agree with Galvanized, that its component failure - either in stupid Antec or the mobo (NB overheating). A bad CPU is an extremely distant possibility, seeing as temps are fine.

Also I can not find 1016 11-09-05 BIOS for ASUS A8N SLI Deluxe anywhere on the USA ASUS site download page
there is a 12-21 1016 BIOS and a newer beta bios 1017.004 2-14-06
http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us (cant link directly due to java script)

Did you flash the bios during your trouble shooting? Or was that as shipped?
Did you read all those red caveats about updating bios.

 

[dotnetguy]

Originally posted by: Bozo Galora

Did you flash the bios during your trouble shooting? Or was that as shipped?
Did you read all those red caveats about updating bios.

I flashed it to 1016 a while back and have since re-installed WindowsXP fresh with the 1016 bios plus their new drivers they released back in Dec. of last year (NForce4 chipset V6.65 drivers as they advised with that bios - I went from 1012 to 1016)... 1016 is listed on their website, it is the 6th item down under bios tab for the A8N-SLI Deluxe

1017.004 is a beta bios, and i have been tempted to install it but I can't find a readme on it so I'm not sure whether there are any significant changes I need or not, or if it may introduce more problems before solving this one.

BTW, I am not overclocking in any way (would love to be though since this is a real cool system)...

The PSU swap-out is gonna be the cheapest thing to do right now (and it's a good shot considering the symptoms) and if it doesn't help, I can always use a new one and put this Antec TPII-430 on one of my server boxes which has an older psu that may need changing soon anyway.

I've just never seen a system with no errors or temp issues or apparent voltage issues simply wind down into instability. WindowsXP won't completely freeze after a while, it'll just error out on everything like Explorer.exe crashes or services hanging, etc. A reboot fixes everything... which I don't understand why. If it's a hardware issue, wouldn't it need to be shut off completely and re-powered up? If you reboot all you are doing is releasing memory, mild hard drive usage and mild video card usage... you'd think the system upon reboot would continue in it's degraded state?? I just can't get my head around why it's acting this way. Been like this since day one of build, and I've finally just gotten so frustrated with it that I have to solve it or move on...

Reformatting, zeroing are all too costly for me at this time, it would take a long time to troubleshoot without a main workstation and would take a great deal of time to backup this one first (~400 of 900 gigs in use). If i had to go that route I'd rather invest it in putting together a new system and selling out these parts.


- dotnetguy

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: dotnetguy

Originally posted by: Bozo Galora

Did you flash the bios during your trouble shooting? Or was that as shipped?
Did you read all those red caveats about updating bios.

I flashed it to 1016 a while back and have since re-installed WindowsXP fresh with the 1016 bios plus their new drivers they released back in Dec. of last year (NForce4 chipset V6.65 drivers as they advised with that bios - I went from 1012 to 1016)... 1016 is listed on their website, it is the 6th item down under bios tab for the A8N-SLI Deluxe

1017.004 is a beta bios, and i have been tempted to install it but I can't find a readme on it so I'm not sure whether there are any significant changes I need or not, or if it may introduce more problems before solving this one.

BTW, I am not overclocking in any way (would love to be though since this is a real cool system)...

The PSU swap-out is gonna be the cheapest thing to do right now (and it's a good shot considering the symptoms) and if it doesn't help, I can always use a new one and put this Antec TPII-430 on one of my server boxes which has an older psu that may need changing soon anyway.

I've just never seen a system with no errors or temp issues or apparent voltage issues simply wind down into instability. WindowsXP won't completely freeze after a while, it'll just error out on everything like Explorer.exe crashes or services hanging, etc. A reboot fixes everything... which I don't understand why. If it's a hardware issue, wouldn't it need to be shut off completely and re-powered up? If you reboot all you are doing is releasing memory, mild hard drive usage and mild video card usage... you'd think the system upon reboot would continue in it's degraded state?? I just can't get my head around why it's acting this way. Been like this since day one of build, and I've finally just gotten so frustrated with it that I have to solve it or move on...

Reformatting, zeroing are all too costly for me at this time, it would take a long time to troubleshoot without a main workstation and would take a great deal of time to backup this one first (~400 of 900 gigs in use). If i had to go that route I'd rather invest it in putting together a new system and selling out these parts.


- dotnetguy

see my above post and use the link... read up and ask questions.. these guys can tell you exactly whats wrong..

do not flash your bios to the beta.. and check your MB Chipset fan..

 

[jmdeathsquad]

bad (bulging, leaking) caps on the mobo would be easy to spot. The mobo is also relativly new, I would suspect a bad psu since it is older. As stated before, those Antecs have a tendency for bad caps.

 

[Bozo Galora]

While I am not saying this is whats happening to YOU, bad electrolyte in cheap filter capacitors can be shorting itself (or explode as in Antec), a shutdown allows cap to discharge and start the degradation again when rebooted after a short wait..
I was not saying current ASUS have bad caps, but POSSIBLY bad component - like mosfets/regulators.

Might also be related to cool n quiet
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/Pro...on/0,,30_118_9485_9487%5E10272,00.html

Also, you keep ignoring the Northbridge heat issue. Take off the hsf and see if it quits quicker.

Edit: I can find no 11-09-05 bios 1016 only 12-21-05 (maybe it was pulled)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/931/screenie5df.jpg

 

[furballi]

You should have at minimum spare RAM, HDD, and PSU if PC is your hobby.

There are no INSTANT solution when troubleshooting PC gremlins. You should know that!

 

[Bobul Head]

Before you do anything drastic, you maybe wanna try pulling the vidcard out, blowing everything out with compressed air and reseating and then try. I had a problem very similar to what you are describing and it turned out to be one little clot of dust in the wrong spot. At least that's what I assume it was, since that was the only thing out of ordinary when I dug into the machine.

I was prepared to start RMAing things and then someone offered me the above advice and it turned out to be the trick. Certainly worth 5 minutes to try solving your headache.