I've been researching Obama and I don't see how he's so great

[SoundTheSurrender]

I don't like anything about him.

All he seems to do is have good presentation skills but the nuts and bolts of him do not speak for much.

He's been quoted that the budget "enables the Bush administration to continue on a flawed policy without being accountable to the American people" back in 2003.

http://www.boston.com/news/nat...nuance_on_iraq/?page=2

Why did he vote to raise the budget so many times since then if he's so against the Bush Administration and the war?

He's voted for the Patriot Act.

http://www.votesmart.org/issue...member.php?cs_id=V3801

These 3 recently came up but this is what spotted my interests.

Believes all options on Iran should be up.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/p...ST-NWS-OBAMA03.article

Ban of semi-automatic weapons.

http://www.vote-smart.org/npat...017&npatform_id=69#826

Give illegal immigrants driver licenses.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...L57Q.DTL&type=politics

It just seems like a big circle jerk fest about how great Obama is and I can't see it.

How can I trust him on exiting the War in Iraq when he shows hostility towards Iran? I believe he wants to do a phased exit but somehow I don't think he will be able to fulfill it.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
I don't like anything about him.

All he seems to do is have good presentation skills but the nuts and bolts of him do not speak for much.

He's been quoted that the budget "enables the Bush administration to continue on a flawed policy without being accountable to the American people" back in 2003.

http://www.boston.com/news/nat...nuance_on_iraq/?page=2

Why did he vote to raise the budget so many times since then if he's so against the Bush Administration and the war?

He's voted for the Patriot Act.

http://www.votesmart.org/issue...member.php?cs_id=V3801

These 3 recently came up but this is what spotted my interests.

Believes all options on Iran should be up.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/p...ST-NWS-OBAMA03.article

Ban of semi-automatic weapons.

http://www.vote-smart.org/npat...017&npatform_id=69#826

Give illegal immigrants driver licenses.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/...L57Q.DTL&type=politics

It just seems like a big circle jerk fest about how great Obama is and I can't see it.

How can I trust him on exiting the War in Iraq when he shows hostility towards Iran? I believe he wants to do a phased exit but somehow I don't think he will be able to fulfill it.

Passing Budgets.... Most budget bills are OmniBus packages, thus if you vote agaisnt something you dont like. You vote agaisnt everything you support.

Partriot Act Reauthorization.... Passed the Senate by unanimous consent.

Belives all options should be on the table for Iran.... Hes the only one that willing to actually talk to Iran.

 

[FoBoT]

if he really isn't control by the washington insiders like he says he isn't, then that is a plus for him

 

[fskimospy]

Most of it involves him being reasonable. I think its fair to say he's been against the war and a critic from the beginning. As much as people like to say it is an option, Congress can't just one day stop funding the war, it would literally leave our troops stranded there. So, between two bad choices he voted for the funding. Meh. What his real criticism has been is that Congress isn't attaching conditions to the funding to force the president to act a little more sanely.

Voting for the patriot act... you got me there, that's crappy.

I don't see why you would be surprised that he's for gun control. He's a liberal.

As far as drivers licenses go, I think that's great. Most of the opposition I've seen comes from people who don't actually know the details of the laws and the manner in which they are implemented. I think that in respect to this issue he's taken an unpopular position that is the smart and pragmatic thing to do. This makes me like him more.

Finally, our troop withdrawal policy in Iraq and saber rattling towards Iran have a lot less to do with one another then you might think.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
if he really isn't control by the washington insiders like he says he isn't, then that is a plus for him

Yes, that's why the 'insiders' aren't givng him large sums, and he has only a fraction the budget of the front-runners.

Oh, wait, that's John Edwards who just dropped out. Obama's getting plenty of insider money.

It gets old watching the same old nonsense where a candidate, let's call him Ronald Reagan, wins on the popular chat about small government, and then spends to point of huge debt.

When the Reagan voters FINALLY start to get tired of that, they then blame all politicians.

 

[Craig234]

On the Patriot Act, IIRC wasn't this a compromise bill? Liberals from Ted Kennedy to Barbara Boxer to John Conyers voted yes with Obama. However, some others I think pretty well of, Patrick Leahy and Russ Feingold, voted no.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: FoBoT
if he really isn't control by the washington insiders like he says he isn't, then that is a plus for him

Yes, that's why the 'insiders' aren't givng him large sums, and he has only a fraction the budget of the front-runners.

Oh, wait, that's John Edwards who just dropped out. Obama's getting plenty of insider money.

It gets old watching the same old nonsense where a candidate, let's call him Ronald Reagan, wins on the popular chat about small government, and then spends to point of huge debt.

When the Reagan voters FINALLY start to get tired of that, they then blame all politicians.

You do realize Obama has gotten the vast majority of his money from grass roots efforts. While Edwards recieved the bulk of the money from the Trial Lawyer Associations.

Obama has recieved money from a staggering amount of people.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Craig234
On the Patriot Act, IIRC wasn't this a compromise bill? Liberals from Ted Kennedy to Barbara Boxer to John Conyers voted yes with Obama. However, some others I think pretty well of, Patrick Leahy and Russ Feingold, voted no.

The Patriot Act Reauthorization's final passage was passed via unianimous consent in the Senate.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

A ton of people voted for the the patriot act. It was a absurd thing to do. If I saw some individualism from Obama on the subject, ie He voted against it even though there was no chance, I could see that he is fighting for something right. I don't see that at all in him. Why should I trust him as a president with all the wrong choices.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
A ton of people voted for the the patriot act. It was a absurd thing to do. If I saw some individualism from Obama on the subject, ie He voted against it even though there was no chance, I could see that he is fighting for something right. I don't see that at all in him. Why should I trust him as a president with all the wrong choices.

You must've forgotten all those "controversial" statements he made over the summer🙂.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

You do realize Obama has gotten the vast majority of his money from grass roots efforts. While Edwards recieved the bulk of the money from the Trial Lawyer Associations.

Obama has recieved money from a staggering amount of people.

When it comes to donations from lobbied interests/insider organizations Obama is second only to Hillary out of all presidential candidates on both sides.

This game takes a lot of money to play, and I don't blame him one bit for taking the donations. (until the rules are changed you would be a fool not to play them to the best of your ability) That being said, lets be honest with the fact that he's taken truckloads of cash from these people.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
A ton of people voted for the the patriot act. It was a absurd thing to do. If I saw some individualism from Obama on the subject, ie He voted against it even though there was no chance, I could see that he is fighting for something right. I don't see that at all in him. Why should I trust him as a president with all the wrong choices.

I hope a lot more people realize this. I want to vote for a genuine leader, not another lesser of two evils crap. I'm playing that game this year. Im going to make my vote truly count..

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Craig234
On the Patriot Act, IIRC wasn't this a compromise bill? Liberals from Ted Kennedy to Barbara Boxer to John Conyers voted yes with Obama. However, some others I think pretty well of, Patrick Leahy and Russ Feingold, voted no.

The Patriot Act Reauthorization's final passage was passed via unianimous consent in the Senate.

And thats supposed to make it ok?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Craig234
On the Patriot Act, IIRC wasn't this a compromise bill? Liberals from Ted Kennedy to Barbara Boxer to John Conyers voted yes with Obama. However, some others I think pretty well of, Patrick Leahy and Russ Feingold, voted no.

The Patriot Act Reauthorization's final passage was passed via unianimous consent in the Senate.

And thats supposed to make it ok?

Well, what the hell do you expect? Him to actually have some integrity? Sheep don't have integrity.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Craig234
On the Patriot Act, IIRC wasn't this a compromise bill? Liberals from Ted Kennedy to Barbara Boxer to John Conyers voted yes with Obama. However, some others I think pretty well of, Patrick Leahy and Russ Feingold, voted no.

The Patriot Act Reauthorization's final passage was passed via unianimous consent in the Senate.

And thats supposed to make it ok?

Craig234 said Leahy and Feingold voted no.

I responded with what happened with the final passage of of the Patriot Act Reauthorization bill. It passed via unanimous consent.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Obama has recieved money from a staggering amount of people.

He claims a Democratic record with $32 million+ and over 170,000 new donors in the last period.

 

[Moonbeam]

"I've been researching Obama and I don't see how he's so great"

Did you try tapping him with your cane?

 

[piasabird]

So did he really vote that much differently than say Hillary Clinton?

He sounds pretty much like the run of the mill Democrat with talking points.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: piasabird
So did he really vote that much differently than say Hillary Clinton?

In votes they have both participated in there are exactly two times that Obama and Hillary voted differently in this session. Both times Obama came out on the more liberal end of the vote.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Craig234
On the Patriot Act, IIRC wasn't this a compromise bill? Liberals from Ted Kennedy to Barbara Boxer to John Conyers voted yes with Obama. However, some others I think pretty well of, Patrick Leahy and Russ Feingold, voted no.

The first bill was passed 99-1 or something like that.

Not sure you can hold that over his head.

 

[ProfJohn]

Obama is a super liberal who just talks a good game about change etc etc.

In the end though his idea of change is not going to be the same as most Americans idea of change. Aka more government ?solutions? and more big government spending.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Obama is a super liberal who just talks a good game about change etc etc.

In the end though his idea of change is not going to be the same as most Americans idea of change. Aka more government ?solutions? and more big government spending.

What I find ironic about those who complain Obama is nothing but talk, a charismatic nothing, etc. is that they often offer empty rhetoric in response.

I don't mean to just call you out on this, in fact you have a legitimate claim that his idea of change means government intervention, but it is a criticism I see of him often that isn't addressing any of his specific policy issues.