I started working for UPS about a month ago in the evenings as a package handler for some extra money to pay off CC debt and loansand also the benefits since the one benefits I am offered suck. I live in GA so I don't have to join the union or pay dues if I don't want to. But regardless I am still effected by it and I hate it. I cannot advance quicker because of the ridiculous seniority issues, I have a college degree, I work my ass off much more than the guy down line unloading trucks at half the speed. 90% of the other employees I work with are lazy, uneducated. It baffles me how they will advance ahead of me. The delivery drivers are way over compensated for the work they do, the truck drivers are even more overcompensated making over 100k a year and only working 4 hours a day. The truck drivers can only only drive 4 hours away from a hub and their day is over. I make $8.50/hour soon to be $9.35 within next week because of a new contract with the union. Honestly I think the package handlers have the worst job of them all. Constantly getting belittled because the trucks are not be unloaded or loaded fast enough, if you are not there before your scheduled time(5:45) and show up right at 5:45 you get a 3 day suspension from working. Unions suck because they hurt the economy and the quality workers. I have seen drivers damage a package was 3 ft long down to 1 ft, all he got was a warning and said "its not my problem" I was pissed just standing there listening to him to say that. He should have been fired on the spot.
When companies are no longer driven by profit and become benevolent, altruistic organizations whose only concern is the welfare of their workers then there will no longer be a need for unions. The next time your company announces that there will be a 10% pay cut and your medical co-pay just doubled while your boss got his bonus and stock option, tell yourself again how evil unions are. I will say it again for the slow-witted in this thread THE COMPANY SIGNED THE LABOR AGREEMENT TOO! Extortion, duress? Prove it. It wasn't the longshoremans union that showed up to the bargaining table armed now was it?
That's why we have laws and regulations and such now, pretty much to eliminate the dangerous working environments, physical abuse, and unfair labor practices that served as the impetus for the labor movement about 100 years ago.
The next time? When was the first time?
Please Dave, now you're just being dishonest and flippant. You know damned well that is the PURPOSE of unions and that "collective bargaining" is a euphemism for "either you pay us $500 a week or bad things could happen to you and your business."
Please Dave, now you're just being dishonest and flippant. You know damned well that union violence and intimidation is a staple of militant industrial unions like steel and dock workers. Knowing the union's propensity to use violence as a bargaining tactic, you'd be a fool not to show up with armed guards.
Your education don't mean anything to the job at hand. As for the drivers, they start out like you and have to work their way up the food chain. Why do you feel you deserve to be treated better than them? As for being lazy, every things are driven by schedules, so I don't think they are as lazy as you make them out to be. BTW, you unload --> he loads so how can he be lazy when the belt never got stop.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 142
- 106
It's simple, just watch Scarface. Yay yo comes in from other countries, and usually by boat or airplane. Are you telling me the unions that run these ports aren't paid off with drug money? They can then pass the "revenue" onto their co-conspirators and pay everyone off down the line to stay hush hush. After all, loose lips sink ships... 
Originally posted by: deftron
Sure those white color jobs are so easy that you have to drink 4 Triple Lattes in the morning just to show up, and then
you get to sit in a cublicle all day developin carpal tunnel syndrome. Youre on six different presciptions to deal with your job stress and sleep disorders.
Your benefits consist mostly of stock options, with are worth less than your gym membership. You get laid off cause the company is downsizing, and end
taking a gun to work and going postal.
HAHA
I don't think its a regional thing, I've lived in different areas and have met the UPS delivery guys (and gals) where ever I've lived or worked. All the one's I've known earn their money, they've all been very polite and hard working.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
- 81
Note: the dock workers got LOCKED OUT. They came to work and the management wouldn't let them in. (they didn't walk out)
When my dad was working at Pacific Bell he'd occasionally pull 6 figure years w/ my mom working part time. But the reason for that is because we wouldn't see him for months at a time during the winter because of a 7 day 12 hour work week schedule (that's more than twice of what a normal week is). And the OT was mandatory. When he got rear ended and was out of work for some time that really hurt because of the lack of OT. During the winter months he made half of his annual income.
When my dad was working at Pacific Bell he'd occasionally pull 6 figure years w/ my mom working part time. But the reason for that is because we wouldn't see him for months at a time during the winter because of a 7 day 12 hour work week schedule (that's more than twice of what a normal week is). And the OT was mandatory. When he got rear ended and was out of work for some time that really hurt because of the lack of OT. During the winter months he made half of his annual income.
I saw a thing on the Discovery (or TLC) regarding the crane operators. It takes a great deal of hand-eye coordination to operate those cranes at the ports and they have some high goals they have to meet regarding how many containers are unloaded during their shifts. The way the show explained it, the guys earned the high dollars because not just anybody made a good crane operator.
Where's the law that says that you can't cut anyones pay or reduce benefits? There isn't one. That's why there are unions. To protect workers from abuses of the employer.
I didn't mean you specifically. There was a thread here not long ago where someone said their company just reduced everyones pay 10%.
I have no reason to be either and please don't accuse me of being dishonest because we don't agree. IMO "collective bargaining" is a euphemism for," we have a skill you need, you are making big money off of it and we want to be paid accordingly." Once again the company can agree or disagree. Why shouldn't they get as much as they can? Companies can play hardball if they want. I saw it happen at Electric Boat in 1988. They had a very powerful union there (talk about a skill set, those guys build submarines) and they went out on strike. They wanted a huge raise, more bennies, etc. EB said no and not only no they said there was going to be no more leaving the yard at lunch to get hammered, drug testing, etc, etc. They had to dissolve submarine crews, production was way backed up. EB lost big money but they stood there ground and eventually got almost everything they wanted most of which was "conduct" types of things in the contract that provided for harsh treatment for sleeping, drinking, drugs, etc.
That is the point I am trying to make when I say TWO PARTIES SIGN THE LABOR AGREEMENT. It also applies to upper management as well. What kind of Board of Directors enters an agreement with a CEO of a company that allows him to walk away from a company after losing tens of millions of dollars with a 7/8 figure compensation package? Incredible isn't it. The reason it is done is very simple. That person has a skill that they need and they have to pay to get it. The difference is that the CEO is smart enough to bargain for himself(although many of them have "agents") and the guy on the dock is not. So they unionize and hire someone to bargain for them.
That's true, but the lockout was in response to a union-ordered slowdown (which is continuing even now, after they've been ordered back to work).
Heck I know alot of programmers that make crap that work 80-90 hours a week. Its not every week but its quite often.
You are right at this point my education doesn't mean anything to do this job or the next one up in the food chain, but my point is that someone who is unqualified will be promoted based on seniority not on if they have the qualifications to actually do the job. Yes I unload and the guy down the line from me also unloads and the other 12 guys in the 8 rows over of 25 trucks also unload, the people who load the trucks work in the early morning, and before you comment on my job maybe you should actually be there. If I was hired one week later than the guy next to me doing the same job, but I was the one working harder, getting the job done, and a position opened up he would get it based on seniority not the fact I was actually earning the promotion and he slacked off. So then why should I bust my a$$ when I know that I will not be promoted over another guy becuase of this. It hurts the company because there is no direct incentive to work harder.
Actually it wasn't exactly a union ordered slowdown. It was a union ordered work to rule, where Union workers would follow thier contract exactly. All safety and staffing regulations would be followed exactly, no overtime would be worked, they would work exactly the number of hours assigned etc. etc.
Nobody cuts wages unless the company is in or fast approaching dire straights financially. I've never had to take a pay cut, but if it meant helping my company reduce expenses during hard times, its certainly better to see a smaller paycheck for a while than to stand in line at the unemployment office and see no paycheck at all. If it meant helping to save my company, thus my job, I'd do it in a minute.
You cannot 'disagree' in good faith because it is not open to interpretation. The EXPRESSED PURPOSE of unions is to 'lobby' for various things and their bargaining chip is the ability to threaten the company with economic harm, that is where they derive their 'power'. You know it and I know it. You can pretend that is not true and think up all kinds of nifty euphemisms for euphemisms, but you do so at the peril of your own credibility, not mine. Carry on.
A euphemism for a euphemism. Stop mincing your words, Dave, there's no need. This isn't some secret, everyone knows that a union derives it power from the ability to threaten economic harm to a company and to entire sectors of the economy...everyone except for you I guess.
Again, I will say you're being dishonest. The answer is because unions often have companies bent over a barrel and you know it. Many companies cannot withstand the harm which would come to them by playing hardball.
Electric Boat had government contracts which insulated them from the harm caused by a protracted labor dispute which other companies without a secured source of income could not withstand.
Stupid, if you ask me. If I were a stockholder, I would be furious over some of these compensation packages and golden parachutes that CEOs have enjoyed in recent years. That is not what I consider guarding my investment prudently.
But that is for stockholders to be concerned with, its their money that bought the plants and buildings and capital goods and the computers and whatnot. Its THEIR company, THEIR money, if they want to pay a CEO $100 million in exchange for mismanaging THEIR company, that's THEIR business. Do you allow anyone to come into your home and tell you what to do with your hard earned money? If so, can I come over and tell you how to spend your money? We'll be spending it on me, of course.
Nobody held a gun to their head?
Ever read any labor movement history? They certainly did figuratively, and quite possibly literally as well.
Unions are important. They protect workers from abusive employers.
But they have certainly abused that mandate IMHO.
They wouldn't huh. They'd lay your ass off in a second if it meant maintaining share price or somebodies bonus. Are you that naive or just flat fuckin' stupid.
Well excuse me for having the audacity to diagree with you. I am fully aware of where unions get their power. It is derived from having a needed skill and strength of numbers. The only loss of credibility here is for the guy who's so biased in this thinking he goes into an uncontrollable rant every time someone says union. Carry on? Carry this.
But somehow they manage to thrive and make a profit if they enter into a labor agreement. Hmmm. Of course, according to you, it's perfectly OK for a company to pay minimum wage while they make millions in profits right. God forbid labor organizes to get a better deal.
That's only partly true. EB lost big money by not delivering subs on time. They were asking Reagan to step in and he refused at which point they started making noise about doing work overseas. Reagan responded by telling them if he heard another word about "doing work overseas" he would have the Marines seal the shipyard.
He doesn't have a solution Red. It's just his usual mindless rant about those evil unions.
MichaelD
Lifer
- Jan 16, 2001
- 31,528
- 3
- 76
You think this is bad? You should've seen the stranglehold the local Furniture Movers and Packers Union had on NYC back in the 1980's/early 90's. Heheh. If you had an office in Manhattan, and you wanted to move, you had to hire Union workers at $18/hr else you'd get picketted beyond belief.
Gawd, that was good money...wish I'd saved some of it. *sigh*
Gawd, that was good money...wish I'd saved some of it. *sigh*
I saw a Discovery Channel show on the crane operators. These jobs are mega-stressful, and only a handful of people can do them well. They are in compartments located hundreds of feet above the boats they are unloading, so they have to have flawless depth perception. People with glasses need not apply. The controls are not computer assisted, they have to do it all by levers. They have to pick up a trailer off the cargo hold of a boat, move it windy and foggy conditions, and set it down on a truck bed designed to fit these trailers snuggly with little extra room to spare. All of this without killing the workers on the ground. The reason these guys are paid so much is because their are so few of them that can actually do it, and they must have years of experience working with cranes.
This reminds me of the Explore Test in 8th grade. My entire class took it and a few of us got 98%. I was the only one to get a 99%. (on the acedemic part)
The other part was asking questions about my hobbies and stuff.. I remember saying I liked computers, math, playing video games, watching tv, soccer.. things like that. When it asked if I like monster trucks and big machines, I said no to all that stuff.
Anyway.. while it recommended most of the people that got scores lower than mine to be doctors, engineers, lawyers.. mine was very specific. According to my test, I am to be a forklift operator. Everyone in my class thought it was funny as hell. I didn't like it one bit.
Anyway, after I finish my computer engineering degree, maybe I'll check that path out.
The other part was asking questions about my hobbies and stuff.. I remember saying I liked computers, math, playing video games, watching tv, soccer.. things like that. When it asked if I like monster trucks and big machines, I said no to all that stuff.
Anyway.. while it recommended most of the people that got scores lower than mine to be doctors, engineers, lawyers.. mine was very specific. According to my test, I am to be a forklift operator. Everyone in my class thought it was funny as hell. I didn't like it one bit.
Anyway, after I finish my computer engineering degree, maybe I'll check that path out.
sixty seconds, actually. takes 60 minutes in the US. and these idiots objected to modernizing it, despite the fact that not a single person would be fired.
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