I've been asked to build a server

[Martyuk39]

Originally posted by: vorgusa
lol.. so after all that talk about SCSI and SAS you just decided not to go for a raid that increases performance.

It's a balance - I mean, I've gone for what I hope are high quality disks but a fault-tolerant RAID.

How would you improve it? RAID 10? That is an option

 

[KingGheedora]

I think you could go with a quad core CPU, but it's pretty cheap for a Xeon x3210 or x3220 (3220 is the same exact chip as Q6600), they're around $280-$300. 8megs of cache, should be plenty of cpu power for what you're doing.

You should get 4gb minimum RAM since you're running sql server.

You should have a fast disk system. What exactly is the context in which you're using SQL Server? Is there an app installed somewhere that will use the database, or is it all ad-hoq queries? If it's a web application that hits the db, are only 10-15 people using that web app? Do you know how much storage you will need for the SQL server database? The storage disk used for file server should be a physically separate drive from the one holding the SQL databases (the actual data, not the install of the SQL Server application), that way the machine can run queries for SQL while acting as a file server at the same time without too much slowdown. So maybe two separate RAID arrays for this. I don't know enough about storage to recommend a config that would work for you in terms of running both RAID arrays via onboard RAID controller, or using an add-in card for one or both arrays.

I just ordered the parts for a personal machine I will use for SQL database development, for large databases (over 250gb), intensive queries. My code, execute, & verify-results loop for the db development I'm doing will be sped up greatly by having the fastest possible disk performance, so I went with four raptors in raid0 (on an add-in controller) to hold the sql db's, and using another raid array of cheap drives with onboard raid for storage, and a cheap drive I have lying around for boot/os.

 

[Martyuk39]

After all that, I come back from my holidays to find that my chosen company, Evesham, has gone bust. Or is now focusing on desktops and notebooks. Or whatever. Seems they lost a bundle when the UK government cancelled what for Evesham was a huge contract. I'm glad I went on holiday before placing the order.

So I'm going to bite the bullet and go for... Dell.

I'll probably have a couple of questions in the next day or two.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Martyuk39
Well I'm getting a pre-made. I'm going for onboard raid, 4GB and probably a quad xeon.

Thanks for all your help

Good idea. It sounds noble to save the company a few bucks up front. What gets you is the backend costs when the thing tanks a dump and you have nobody to come out and fixz it and take the blame except yourself. Not to mention the downtime == lost revenue for the company. Most likely in the mutiples of what you originally saved up front.

 

[cmetz]

Martyuk39, Dell is cheap, and that's a comment both on cost and product quality.

HPaq and IBM make better canned servers. They're more expensive though. Occasionally a good HPaq reseller can help bring the cost down a bit and can also really help you with service.

Regardless of the earlier debate, if you can find a mom-and-pop shop who can build you a system based on a pre-integrated Supermicro server system (that is, all you do is add CPU, memory, and disk, the rest is already done for you) then it can get you a good quality system and often cheaper than the big boys. You're more or less on your own for support, though. But if you've ever talked with Dell server tech support about getting parts replaced under their "next business day" warranty, you might find that "you're on your own" is basically the same outcome, only you know it from the start...

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: cmetz
Martyuk39, Dell is cheap, and that's a comment both on cost and product quality.

HPaq and IBM make better canned servers. They're more expensive though. Occasionally a good HPaq reseller can help bring the cost down a bit and can also really help you with service.

Regardless of the earlier debate, if you can find a mom-and-pop shop who can build you a system based on a pre-integrated Supermicro server system (that is, all you do is add CPU, memory, and disk, the rest is already done for you) then it can get you a good quality system and often cheaper than the big boys. You're more or less on your own for support, though. But if you've ever talked with Dell server tech support about getting parts replaced under their "next business day" warranty, you might find that "you're on your own" is basically the same outcome, only you know it from the start...

If you buy from a mom and pop shop that doesnt support the hardware. You might as well build the thing yourself. Honestly, what are you getting out of the deal?

As for Dell support. Maybe my experiences have been different. They have been good to me. Always making their window and never giving me the run around.

/shrug

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: cmetz
Martyuk39, Dell is cheap, and that's a comment both on cost and product quality.

HPaq and IBM make better canned servers. They're more expensive though. Occasionally a good HPaq reseller can help bring the cost down a bit and can also really help you with service.

Regardless of the earlier debate, if you can find a mom-and-pop shop who can build you a system based on a pre-integrated Supermicro server system (that is, all you do is add CPU, memory, and disk, the rest is already done for you) then it can get you a good quality system and often cheaper than the big boys. You're more or less on your own for support, though. But if you've ever talked with Dell server tech support about getting parts replaced under their "next business day" warranty, you might find that "you're on your own" is basically the same outcome, only you know it from the start...

If you buy from a mom and pop shop that doesnt support the hardware. You might as well build the thing yourself. Honestly, what are you getting out of the deal?

As for Dell support. Maybe my experiences have been different. They have been good to me. Always making their window and never giving me the run around.

/shrug

Agreed on the M&P type stores.
And as the OP's last post demonstrated, the stability just isn't there either(of the company that is), while you can probably feel reasonably sure that HP or IBM won't cave in any time soon 🙂

Me, I like HP servers, very good quality, and I've never had any problems with their support.
They don't have to be very expensive either, they frequently run campaigns and such, you can get their lower end servers insanely cheap sometimes, at my old job we picked up a couple of DL380G4's for ~$1.000 each(no disk though), and we got a free 19" rack for free 😉
Can't say I have enough experience with Dell to make any kind of educated statement about them.

 

[Nothinman]

Martyuk39, Dell is cheap, and that's a comment both on cost and product quality.

Totally agree, I can't stand Dell boxes. Their hardware's iffy as is and changes without warning and the support's questionable as well.

 

[bluestrobe]

Originally posted by: Genx87
As for Dell support. Maybe my experiences have been different. They have been good to me. Always making their window and never giving me the run around.

+1

I've had the same experience with them, all good.

 

[Martyuk39]

Dell, HP, IBM - every company has their fans and their detractors.

If I go for Dell then that's a good decision to some and a bad decision to others. I don't like Dell, and don't rate their sub-$500 products at all - it's a false economy. Like I said in a previous post I've been called in to fix systems that are days old, when the client's just got fed up of the pitiful support.

However I have an even worse experience of HP, and before that Compaq. Especially Compaq. Especially anything with the word "Proliant" in it.

I'm going for Dell. That's it. Final. Until I change my mind. Again.

 

[Nothinman]

However I have an even worse experience of HP, and before that Compaq. Especially Compaq. Especially anything with the word "Proliant" in it.

That must be a UK thing then because I don't think we ever had a major problem with HP/Compaq at my last job, except for the Itanic boxes that I'll never recommend to anyone.

 

[Martyuk39]

Actually to be fair the core system ran unimpeded for years, it's just that for instance I had to replace a disk at some exhorbitant cost, and the support company threatened to withdraw support unless they installed it at an extra cost to the already exhorbitant annual maintenance contract. It was hot-pluggable.I am going back a bit here - it was a 1 gigabyte disk and it was about 1994.

But then also to be fair 3 departmental printers we had developed some humungous faults a few months after their respective warranties ran out and we were quoted repair costs higher than their replacements.

I think there is a bit of a difference in the UK - as far as I'm aware we don't really have the class action kind of thing going on. And (stereotype alert) we're too polite to complain (end of stereotype)

 

[Nothinman]

1994 was a very long time ago and if you're talking about a middle-man between you and Compaq then that shouldn't reflect on Compaq much at all. And if that middle-man was extorting extra money like that then Compaq probably stopped using them years ago.

I think there is a bit of a difference in the UK - as far as I'm aware we don't really have the class action kind of thing going on. And (stereotype alert) we're too polite to complain (end of stereotype)

You can complain politely, just tell the person threatening you that your support contract doesn't require you to pay any extra fees for replacement hardware and then if/when he argues with you just ask to talk to his boss.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
1994 was a very long time ago and if you're talking about a middle-man between you and Compaq then that shouldn't reflect on Compaq much at all. And if that middle-man was extorting extra money like that then Compaq probably stopped using them years ago.

Yeah, maybe things work differently in the UK or US, but whenever disks broke for us, we'd just call Compaq/HP, they'd send a new disk, no questions asked, we replaced it and sent the old one back in the same box the new one came for.
Total time spent being maybe 5 minutes 🙂

 

[Martyuk39]

Yeah, maybe things work differently in the UK or US, but whenever disks broke for us, we'd just call Compaq/HP, they'd send a new disk, no questions asked, we replaced it and sent the old one back in the same box the new one came for.
Total time spent being maybe 5 minutes 🙂

I did install it myself and told them to get stuffed, but I bet a lot of other clients didn't. And yes, that support company disappeared a long time ago. But the disk did cost £1000, and so they probably made money on that.