IVB Build for CAD/engineering

[MrDudeMan]

I'm building two computers for CAD/engineering work. I need to order the parts today or tomorrow at the latest. Unfortunately, I can't wait for HSW, so I'm probably going to go with the i7-3770k, but this is open for debate. No gaming - only work (mostly AutoCAD 2D). Budget is between $1000 and $1100 for the parts listed below.

Notes:

• Overclocking likely won't be done in any capacity. I don't like limiting myself by not getting the 'k' version, though. I am using my employee discount, so the price difference doesn't matter.
• I'll be using a 30" monitor, but no gaming of any kind will be done on these computers. I'd considering a workstation card for significantly increased CAD performance, but this also isn't a hard requirement. It's highly preferred, though.
• I need the case and everything in it. The keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc. are already available.

The current list of parts:

• Case - I don't really care about the case. Preferably it would be black and not attract much attention to itself. A good bonus would be if the case was somewhat quiet. I've been looking at the NZXT Source 210 S210-001 ($35).
• PSU - Antec Earthwatts Green EA-380D ($45). I've had good experience with this supply in the past.
• Motherboard - ?? I don't need a ton of bells and whistles. I want something stable and well made that will last.
• CPU - i7-3770k ($180)
• RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 ($60). I'm not really sure what's important in this area anymore. These seem to be respectable.
• HDD - No SSD due to size and cost constraints. I was thinking about the WD Black WD5003AZEX ($75) because it seems to be fast and relatively cheap.
• Video - I've been looking at Nvidia Quadro cards, but I'm open to anything. The main application for this computer that will demand any kind of performance will be rendering in AutoCAD (mostly 2D). I think any Quadro should be way better than onboard graphics for this application, but I could be wrong. Please advise.
• Optical - LG 24X DVD Burner ($18)
• OS - Windows 7 Pro 64bit ($140)
• Misc - Office 2010 Home and Business ($??). I can't find a decent deal on this. Any help?

The total right now is ~$550 excluding the motherboard, video card, and office 2010 H&B.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Essence_of_War]

What does the total budget look like?

 

[MrDudeMan]

What does the total budget look like?

I'd like to keep the parts and software under $1000 or $1100. The CPU is $180 (I'll update the first post). That brings the current total to ~$550 excluding motherboard, video card, and office 2010 H&B.

 

[Termie]

If the 3770k is really that cheap for you, it's an obvious choice, but for your purposes, a server CPU based on the IVB core would also work. For motherboards, I'd get a B75 if you really don't care about overclocking, or an inexpensive Z77 if you want to try for some overclocking. ASRock's Z75-based Pro3 might actually be a good compromise at $85: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157304

Doesn't have SSD caching, in case you wanted to try that instead of a dedicated SSD OS drive.

 

[Essence_of_War]

For MoBo, I'd go with the AsRock Pro3 for ~75 USD.

I don't know much about pro video cards, but the Nvidia Quadro 600 is entry level, and in the neighborhood of your price range at ~170 USD. It is spec'd for 41 W, so your psu sounds like it should be fine.

I'm not convinced that the WD Blacks are worth the extra money. They spin at the same speed as the Blues, and yeah, you get a 5 year warranty, but you're probably just paying for the cost of that warranty in the higher cost of the unit. I'd save 10-15 bucks and just get a blue.

I would consider more memory. You can get 4x4GB of Mushkin DDR3-1600 for 125.

That puts you at 850 overall.

I'm seeing office H&B at 280...I also see Office 2013 H&B for 220. Is moving to the newer out of the question? If not, that gets you to 1070.

 

[MrDudeMan]

If the 3770k is really that cheap for you, it's an obvious choice, but for your purposes, a server CPU based on the IVB core would also work

Do you have a recommendation?

For motherboards, I'd get a B75 if you really don't care about overclocking, or an inexpensive Z77 if you want to try for some overclocking. ASRock's Z75-based Pro3 might actually be a good compromise at $85: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157304

Doesn't have SSD caching, in case you wanted to try that instead of a dedicated SSD OS drive.

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at these boards tonight.

For MoBo, I'd go with the AsRock Pro3 for ~75 USD.

A second for the same motherboard. Sounds promising...

I don't know much about pro video cards, but the Nvidia Quadro 600 is entry level, and in the neighborhood of your price range at ~170 USD. It is spec'd for 41 W, so your psu sounds like it should be fine.

I'm not convinced that the WD Blacks are worth the extra money. They spin at the same speed as the Blues, and yeah, you get a 5 year warranty, but you're probably just paying for the cost of that warranty in the higher cost of the unit. I'd save 10-15 bucks and just get a blue.

I would consider more memory. You can get 4x4GB of Mushkin DDR3-1600 for 125.

That puts you at 850 overall.

I'm seeing office H&B at 280...I also see Office 2013 H&B for 220. Is moving to the newer out of the question? If not, that gets you to 1070.

I'm not exactly sure what I would do with 16GB of memory. Did you have anything specific in mind or was that simply a general suggestion?

Thanks for the info about the WD blue. I haven't seen many benchmarks either way actually. An SSD would be better, but seems to be cost prohibitive considering the amount of space I need (at least 240GB and my employee discount isn't nearly as good on SSDs).

I know almost nothing about workstation cards, so I can't tell if the one you linked is what I need or if the less expensive versions will still be sufficient. I'll have to do some more digging.

 

[Essence_of_War]

I'm not exactly sure what I would do with 16GB of memory. Did you have anything specific in mind or was that simply a general suggestion?

I was just thinking that CAD can be very resource intensive and would benefit from having a good chunk of RAM thrown at it.

With 8 GB you'll probably be OK though.

 

[Termie]

Note that ASRock has several Pro3 board using various chipsets. Make sure you know which one you're buying. The Z75 is better than the B75.

The Intel Xeon E3-1230 V2 server chip is popular, but only go with it if it's a lot less than the 3770K.

 

[Cerb]

16GB RAM: general suggestion. AutoCAD will happily use more, if you make or edit more complex projects, or never bring you to needing that 16GB, if you stay with sufficiently small/simple ones. If you want to try only 8GB, make sure to either get 2x4GB with a 4-slot board, or 1x8GB with a 2-slot board, to make doubling it a simple matter, should you want to, by adding another of the same model RAM.

The B series chipsets are largely stuck in MicroATX, only have 1 6Gbps SATA port, don't support IRST (SSD caching), and can't overclock. The H series has one more 6Gbps SATA, and supports IRST. The Z series adds overclocking support.

Oh, also, AutoCAD is fine with gaming GPUs. Some add-ons may not be, though. If you want to spend more elsewhere, a $80-100 gaming card, a like Radeon 7770, or GTS 650, would likely be bordering on overkill (but cheap ones barely get you more performance than IGP, so if you want discrete...).

If you want, you can get the i7 (note: some E3 Xeons have IGP, some do not! If getting one, make sure to look!), and try the IGP. As of Sandy bridge, it was OK, but the drivers still could give odd artifacts, and unexpected slowdowns. Ivy Bridge's, I'm not sure about. Worst case, it will cost ~$5 more for shipping a new order, if you want a video card, later, v. including it right now, should you want to give IGP a chance.

 

[snoylekim]

The HD P4000 integrated Graphics in the Xeon E3-12 series is certified w/ Adobe and certain Autodesk products ..but given the price the OP is getting for the 3770 , not sure the equivalent processor (E3-1245v2) could be had for the same .. Might answer any questions about IG and CAD and unstable drivers, though .

 

[mfenn]

2D AutoCAD is basically a non-issue for any graphics these days, Integrated or not. I'd say use what's built-in to the i7 3770(k) or E3-12x5 V2.

As for the RAM question, it really depends on what type of projects you'll be working on. 16GB is a safe recommendation and easily fits within your budget. That being said, it might not be required if DWG files are fairly small and/or you only have a few open at once. What does your AutoCAD memory usage look like currently?

 

[Sleepingforest]

OP: if you don't know how to check memory usage, just fire up your CAD program, open up the Windows Task Manager (ctrl-alt-esc) and do some work. There should be a tab in Task Manager which is "performance" or usage or something similar which monitors RAM usage. Tell us how much you use during a typical workload, and be sure to mention if your computer starts commiting to the page file (also called the swap file--you should find this info in the same panel of Task Manager).

 

[Cerb]

2D AutoCAD is basically a non-issue for any graphics these days, Integrated or not. I'd say use what's built-in to the i7 3770(k) or E3-12x5 V2.

My only issue has been driver quality. For mostly 2D, and basic machining or architecture in 3D, that has been the issue since the later GMA series (G33 or newer, basically). The near-future Haswell Xeon IGP has the official OK stamp. AMD 700-series or newer Radeon IGP has been fine since release, IME, and I used to get the Geforce 8400GS, simply because it also did h.264 offloading, and occasionally because it could do 2xVGA.

SB worked, but Radeons or Geforces worked a lot better, and w/o glitches or stuttering (the latter mostly being a 3D problem). With IB, I really don't know, simply because nobody I know is itching to upgrade from Nehalem or SB gen hardware, at this point. It very well might work perfectly.

OP: if you don't know how to check memory usage, just fire up your CAD program, open up the Windows Task Manager (ctrl-alt-esc) and do some work. There should be a tab in Task Manager which is "performance" or usage or something similar which monitors RAM usage. Tell us how much you use during a typical workload, and be sure to mention if your computer starts commiting to the page file (also called the swap file--you should find this info in the same panel of Task Manager).

To elaborate...

Commit (right-center, as current/peak) is the total virtual memory in use, right now. The peak is the highest amount since the last logoff or reboot (I've never checked which ). If the commit starts getting higher than your RAM amount, you can use more RAM. If the peak gets higher, particularly much higher, you really need more RAM. This is not an amount of RAM actually used by applications, but the amount the OS has guaranteed will be available to applications (hotels over-booking rooms would be a good analogy: 99% of programs won't need all they allocate, but you have to have coupons for the hotel across town, in case they do). You want your commit to stay under your physical RAM amount, if possible. Ideally, peak commit, too.

Available is how much can be allocated and committed right now, that isn't. You don't want this going too low, because that will cause Windows to fret and start pushing memory out to the page file, that could have remained mirrored in RAM.

Cached is how much is being used for files, and will be a part of the available memory. Cache is good. Cached reads don't need to come from disk, and caching and delaying writing allows for more efficient disk writing, so that you don't notice any delays from it.

Free is completely unused RAM. If it stays at more than a few hundred MB, you probably aren't making use of your RAM very well (IE, might have too much). Generally, it should only be fairly large just after you've closed a memory hogging program, such as AutoCAD, an Office application, web browser, etc., and should then creep back down during normal use, or when idle, if Superfetch is enabled.

The page file gets complicated, but you don't want to have to be going out to it very often. If you end up in a situation where your program(s) drag, while your HDD is thrashing, that's probably happening, and you could stand more RAM. In Resource Monitor's memory tab, hard faults per second are a number you want to be minimal (ideally 0, but correlating spikes to poor performance at that time is more important than what the number is).

 

[moonbogg]

I've never had any performance issues with 2D cad work, regardless of how huge the drawing was. Massive plant layouts, doesn't matter.
3D Modeling is video card dependant, so get a quadro if you plan on working with larger assemblies or want the fancy visual effects.
CPU usage for any CAD work is very low. Running physics simulations will benefit from a better CPU but the actual cad work is weaksauce.