ITT: We propose our own Socket AM1 SKUs

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Just like in the other threads here and here, we propose our own SKUs. This time it is for Socket AM1.

So here are two of mine:

1. AM1 dual core @ 2.05+ GHz with 128 sp GCN iGPU @ 600 MHz.

Reason for proposing this SKU:

---- Intel's J1800 dual core desktop atom is faster than the existing AM1 socket dual core Sempron 2650. Unfortunately, even if AMD were to boost the dual core Sempron 2650 clocks to 2.05 Ghz it would only roughly tie the J1800. So to make the dual core AM1 a better value, I would also like to see the 128 sp iGPU increase from 400 MHz run to the full 600 MHz (ie, the same clocks Athlon 5150 and Athlon 5350 iGPUs run at). Based on power consumption figures I have seen for Sempron 2650, boosting clocks to these levels should be no problem and TDP should be below 25 watts.

2. AM1 30th Anniversary unlocked quad core @ 2.4 GHz with 128 sp GCN @ 800 MHz, 1866 memory controller. (This is basically a "K" SKU of the 25 watt Beema A6-6310 --> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...tecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview/2 for the AM1 socket)

Reason for prosposing this SKU:

---- I would like to see a better performing flagship AM1 at some lower promotional price. Furthermore, I would hope the retailers are encouraged by the processor's value to make some nice sale priced mail order processor/motherboard combos like we have seen with the Intel 20th Anniversary Pentium G3258. Maybe the distinguishing factor between the G3258 processor/motherboard combos and the 30th Anniversary AM1 processor/combos could be the Mini-ITX form factor. (From what I have seen all Pentium G3258 processor/motherboard combos up to this point have either been uATX or ATX, not Mini-ITX)
 
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JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
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I'd like to see some Beema parts for AM1 (they currently seem to be stuck on Kaveri). I'd also like to see an aftermarket AM1 fanless heatsink; that should be doable for a platform which tops out near 25W.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,572
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2. AM1 30th Anniversary quad core @ 2.4 GHz with 128 sp GCN @ 800 MHz, 1866 memory controller. (This is basically the 25 watt Beema A6-6310 --> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7974/...tecture-a10-micro-6700t-performance-preview/2 for the AM1 socket)

Reason for prosposing this SKU:

---- I would like to see a better performing flagship AM1 at some lower promotional price. Furthermore, I would hope the retailers are encouraged by the processor's value to make some nice sale priced mail order processor/motherboard combos like we have seen with the Intel 20th Anniversary Pentium G3258. Maybe the distinguishing factor between the G3258 processor/motherboard combos and the 30th Anniversary AM1 processor/combos could be the Mini-ITX form factor. (From what I have seen all Pentium G3258 processor/motherboard combos up to this point have either been uATX or ATX, not Mini-ITX)

Both excellent ideas. I would probably buy an AM1 rig in an ITX form-factor if it was just a little bit faster and cheaper.

I had really wanted an ITX rig for my upgrade from my Q9300 overclocked, but when Newegg had the G3258 combo with H81 overclocking mobo I caved and picked up two of them. So I'm still "suffering" through another generation of ATX mid-tower form-factor.

Edit: Even at only 3.8Ghz, and under 100% 24/7 load with BOINC in the background, web browsing is snappy, and scrolling is smooth. Using a Rosewill PCI-E N150 adapter (Atheros 9485, I think), and an X25-M G2 80GB SSD.
 
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Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
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I'll settle for some higher frequency SKUs. Preferably around 3GHz...

Related, I'd like to see some Puma core SKUs for FM2+.
 

Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
3,917
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The mayor bottenecks on AM1 are because of the socket and cant be fixed, simple as that.

If i had to ask something it whould be a passive dual and quad not even the 2650 can be passive with the stock cooler...

Ill highly hope they DO NOT make an x8... its gona fill with people selling them as "PS4 like" gaming pcs to people that have no idea.

And if ill have to ask something out of a AM1 whould whould be one with an high number of satas, like 8 or 12.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
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I'll settle for some higher frequency SKUs. Preferably around 3GHz...

Based on these overclocking results of the Athlon 5350:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36301815&postcount=75

Just got a wattmeter so I have some fun power data to share about my Kabini system.

Idle load:
17-18W, the same as silentpcreview

Prime 95 load:
28W with CPU @ 1.6Ghz (-275mV offset, RAM @ 1.35V 1600Mhz)
62W with CPU @ 2.7Ghz (+205mV offset, RAM @ 1.65V 2288Mhz)

I also tested the stock radiator without fan (CPU @ 1.6Ghz undervolted), it can handle moderate loads as long as there's minimum airflow inside the case. (eg. power supply fan or a case fan at very low rpm).

When I have some spare time I'll change the thermal paste on the stock cooler and gather more/proper power&thermal data.

System config consists of: Athlon 5350, Asus AM1I-A, 2 x 4GB Kingston HyperX Beast, 128GB Kingston V180+ SSD, Fortron FSP350 60EGN 350W (Gold Rated, 88% efficiency at 20%load, likely to keep it up at 80% even at lower loads).

The existing AM1 can get to 2.7 GHz overclocked, but high power consumption.

...So with the top Beema having refreshed Jaguar cores with ~20% extra clockspeed compared to 5350 at stock, maybe there is a good chance for 3+ GHz if a Beema AM1 were overclocked.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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I upgraded the 30th Anniversary APU in the OP with an unlocked multiplier.

It will be interesting to see what AMD gives us for a AM1 refresh, and what the timing will be in relation to their next small core platform and Intel's Braswell.
 

janeuner

Member
May 27, 2014
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And if ill have to ask something out of a AM1 [would] be one with an high number of satas, like 8 or 12.

Seriously. Two SATA ports means one HDD and one optical. If you want more storage, it's USB 3.0 or a secondary controller. Pretty short-sighted imho.

Otherwise, I'd mirror what others are saying. This platform needs a ~2Ghz dual core part and a 256 SP part.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,421
5,715
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Seriously. Two SATA ports means one HDD and one optical. If you want more storage, it's USB 3.0 or a secondary controller. Pretty short-sighted imho.

Otherwise, I'd mirror what others are saying. This platform needs a ~2Ghz dual core part and a 256 SP part.

It's a consumer platform aimed at cheap laptops and hopefully tablets. Adding more SATA ports increases pin out, board complexity and power consumption.

If you want to build a storage server, buy a server SKU. Or plug a SATA controller into that PCIe slot.
 

janeuner

Member
May 27, 2014
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It's a consumer platform aimed at cheap laptops and hopefully tablets.

No it sorta isn't. AM1 is for desktop PCs.

Low%20GDP_575px.png


Source: Anandtech's coverage of the launch announcement.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,421
5,715
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No it sorta isn't. AM1 is for desktop PCs.

AM1 is just a repackaging of the Kabini/Temash SoC. Kabini is mainly targeted at laptops and tablets. Selling bargain basement desktops is more of a useful side effect than anything else.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Otherwise, I'd mirror what others are saying. This platform needs a ~2Ghz dual core part and a 256 SP part.

1.) Regarding the ~2 GHz dual core, I noticed it is Sempron's 10th Anniversary --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sempron (July, 2004 was the initial launch date)

(So for a 10th Anniversary Sempron, I'd say add an unlocked multiplier).

2.) As far as 256 stream processors go, there is a good possibility the 20nm Puma+ will have that.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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AM1 is just a repackaging of the Kabini/Temash SoC. Kabini is mainly targeted at laptops and tablets. Selling bargain basement desktops is more of a useful side effect than anything else.

Well technically AM1 and Kabini/Temash are different dies (AM1 fabbed at GF, and Kabini/Temash fabbed at TSMC), but yes the die layouts (AFAIK) are the same with regard to the advertised features.

AFAIK, Beema/Mullins (the follow-up of Kabini/Temash) are fabbed at GF though.

P.S. If AMD wanted to make a new AM1 SKU from the Beema/Mullins dies, I wonder how much existing Beema inventory they are sitting on? And if these existing Beema chips already have their multipliers set (fused, laser cut, etc) yet?
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,854
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AM1 is just a repackaging of the Kabini/Temash SoC. Kabini is mainly targeted at laptops and tablets. Selling bargain basement desktops is more of a useful side effect than anything else.

AM1 CPUs are extracted from GF waffers, that is, from Beema/Mullins dedicated waffers, some features are disabled but they are essentialy 15W real TDP chips, just look at the reviews and do the most basics calculations of PSU, VRMs losses, RAM and HD/SSD eventual power deltas, you ll hardly reach 15W in most if not all cases.
 

janeuner

Member
May 27, 2014
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0
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AM1 is just a repackaging of the Kabini/Temash SoC. Kabini is mainly targeted at laptops and tablets.

Therefore 10 USB ports. :sneaky:

I'd actually be pretty pissed if they changed the socket at this point (AM1+ ?) for a budget system. It's more just a coulda shoulda didn't sort of thing.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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AM1 CPUs are extracted from GF waffers, that is, from Beema/Mullins dedicated waffers, some features are disabled but they are essentialy 15W real TDP chips, just look at the reviews and do the most basics calculations of PSU, VRMs losses, RAM and HD/SSD eventual power deltas, you ll hardly reach 15W in most if not all cases.

If what you are saying is true, I have to wonder how much overclocking headroom is really left in a A6-6310 with unlocked multiplier?

With that mentioned, I could definitely make use of a unlocked Sempron dual core that could hit 2.5+ GHz on both cores. I also think it would make a good low cost addition (specifically in the MINI-ITX form factor where AM1 has the affordability lead over LGA 1150 and FM2/FM2+) to a "low GPU load" gaming database. This data base for determining resolutions and detail settings needed for achieving playable frame rates of various low end APUs (Celeron G1820, A4-7300, A4-6300, Athlon 5350, A4-4000,etc.)

For example, I am pretty sure 2.5 GHz dual core Sempron (or maybe even 2.05 GHz) with 600 Mhz iGPU would be sufficient to make playable frame rates in the Dirt 3 built-in benchmark at 1366 x 768 ultra low settings & MSAA off.
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Seriously. Two SATA ports means one HDD and one optical. If you want more storage, it's USB 3.0 or a secondary controller. Pretty short-sighted imho.

Otherwise, I'd mirror what others are saying. This platform needs a ~2Ghz dual core part and a 256 SP part.

I meant more satas using pci-e controllers on the mb, if i cant have a silent HTPC at least i want HTPC+Storage on a single machine, or, why not, a AM1 fileserver MB....?

Increasing to 256SP is useless, the 128SP part is already starved to dead by the memory controller and the cpu does not help it either.
So it was Bobcat and his 64SP IGP, someone wants to compare a E350 vs 2650 to see what happens?
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,854
4,829
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If we look at Anand measurements the dual core 2650 has 60% of the 2.05 Athlon 5350 TDP, delta is 10W for the former and 17W for the latter, i got the higher delta with a 5350 and Prime 95 with 18.8W at the main, wich is is barely 14-15W at the SoC level, the 2650 should fit the 15W at 2.4, unfortunately my MB didnt allow overclocking but so far it looks like the 2.05 APU work at 2.4 at stock voltage, no reasons that the 2C cant be substancialy higher clocked.

I meant more satas using pci-e controllers on the mb, if i cant have a silent HTPC at least i want HTPC+Storage on a single machine.

This exist with additional controlers, check the AM1B ITX from Asrock, price is the same as regular MBs, there s 4 USB 3 + 4 SATA 3.

Increasing to 256SP is useless, the 128SP part is already starved to dead by the memory controller and the cpu does not help it either.
So it was Bobcat and his 64SP IGP, someone wants to compare a E350 vs 2650 to see what happens?

The thing will be dual channel 1866, there will be double the current bandwith, or the one of Bobcat wich had 80 SPs btw..
 
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Shivansps

Diamond Member
Sep 11, 2013
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yeah, 80SP, i forgot. The thing is, you cant do anything on AM1... no DC, no DDR4, thats needs a socket revision. 256SP on the current state will offer little to none improvement.
 
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cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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If we look at Anand measurements the dual core 2650 has 60% of the 2.05 Athlon 5350 TDP, delta is 10W for the former and 17W for the latter, i got the higher delta with a 5350 and Prime 95 with 18.8W at the main, wich is is barely 14-15W at the SoC level, the 2650 should fit the 15W at 2.4, unfortunately my MB didnt allow overclocking but so far it looks like the 2.05 APU work at 2.4 at stock voltage, no reasons that the 2C cant be substancialy higher clocked.

2.4 GHz stock clocked AM1 dual core on a Mini-ITX would be slow compared to a G1820 on a H81 Mini-ITX and lack the same degree of upgradeability. However, assuming the new chip was the same price as the Sempron 2650 ($31 free shipping at Amazon) it would definitely be cheaper.

Celeron G1820 ($43 on Amazon) + MSI H81 Mini-ITX board ($65 on Amazon) = $108
2.4 GHz Sempron dual core ($31 on Amazon) + MSI AM1 Mini-ITX board ($34 on Newegg) = $65

If AMD makes such a chip, I will definitely buy and test it. With that mentioned, it would be nice to see the processor/motherboard deals for this one to drop price even further. (I used to like seeing those mail order $50 Athlon II x 2 processor/MSI motherboard deals of the past, and the same type of thing would be welcome here as well.)
 
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