ITT: We list current generation CPUs that are in most need of improvement

[cbn]

You dont even have 4GB. You have 2-3.5GB depending on setting. And OS 1 is 1 GB. You better close all other apps and browsers too.

Accept it and move on, your 4GB GDDR5 dream is stillborn.

According to the following video even Witcher 3 (which lists 6GB RAM as minimum) is only using 3+GB RAM during gameplay with A10-7850K:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvUu-MHZxMg

So I think 4GB GDDR5 would work better than you think.

 

[ShintaiDK]

According to the following video even Witcher 3 (which lists 6GB RAM as minimum) is only using 3+GB RAM during gameplay with A10-7850K:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvUu-MHZxMg

So I think 4GB GDDR5 would work better than you think.

It uses 3.4GB as the game in the scenes shown. It will use more other places.

3.4GB+1GB OS plus what, 1-2GB for IGP? Plus whatever for other things. It doesn't say 6GB without reason.

 

[cbn]

According to the following video even Witcher 3 (which lists 6GB RAM as minimum) is only using 3+GB RAM during gameplay with A10-7850K:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvUu-MHZxMg

So I think 4GB GDDR5 would work better than you think.

It uses 3.4GB as the game in the scenes shown. It will use more other places.

3.4GB+1GB OS plus what, 1-2GB for IGP? Plus whatever for other things. It doesn't say 6GB without reason.

Here is Witcher 3 gameplay on a 2.6 Ghz Core 2 duo system with 3GB RAM and HD6670 1GB GDDR5:

https://youtu.be/QcXPkPYDl3s?t=314

Looks good to me. (Very smooth gameplay)

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes, paged to hell and short sessions.

You can try and make all the excuses you want for a 4GB GDDR5 setup. But its not going to work. Just like all the other "ideas".

 

[cbn]

Yes, paged to hell and short sessions.

Not sure how much paging out was happening (game play was ultra smooth to my eye).

However, I suppose if the game is good at paging then so be it. It is just a good design then (in that respect).

EDIT: Actually looking through the video I did notice a few pauses. These were not in the action scenes though.

You can try and make all the excuses you want for a 4GB GDDR5 setup. But its not going to work.

We don't even know the price of this 8Gb GDDR5 (Samsung or Micron) on 20nm.

But lets say for the sake of argument the 20nm process tech brings GDDR5 to a 2:1 price ratio with DDR3.

That means a person could either get 4GB GDDR5 soldered on a motherboard or 2 x 4GB DDR3 DIMMs.

Knowing what we know about A10 APUs which one do you think is going to be the bigger bottleneck?

I'll bet the 4GB GDDR5 wins most of the time.

 

[cbn]

AMD is moving towards HBM2, not GDDR5 or any other GDDR variant.

I realize that, but it would nice if AMD could provide a fix for the almost 2 years of A10 Kaveri APUs that have already accumulated. This, plus whatever, FM2+ A10 processors exist in the channel (after the launch of AM4).

Certainly 4GB GDDR5 does not make a high end set-up, but I think it would be a viable alternative to (2 x 8GB DDR3) in many scenarios.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Here is Witcher 3 gameplay on a 2.6 Ghz Core 2 duo system with 3GB RAM and HD6670 1GB GDDR5:

https://youtu.be/QcXPkPYDl3s?t=314the

Looks good to me. (Very smooth gameplay)

The moments when the game was locking up momenterily is due to paging, ie swapping from ram to hdd and even through to vram. This is why 4GB+ of VRAM is so often pushed on these forums as most not used to these kinds of momentary freeze ups will find them quite jarring and just gives the impression that the game engine is barely holding together, as opposed to that bulletproof feel at a constant framerate with no stutters and freezes.

 

[cbn]

Here is Witcher 3 gameplay on a 2.6 Ghz Core 2 duo system with 3GB RAM and HD6670 1GB GDDR5:

https://youtu.be/QcXPkPYDl3s?t=314

Looks good to me. (Very smooth gameplay)

The moments when the game was locking up momenterily is due to paging, ie swapping from ram to hdd and even through to vram. This is why 4GB+ of VRAM is so often pushed on these forums as most not used to these kinds of momentary freeze ups will find them quite jarring and just gives the impression that the game engine is barely holding together, as opposed to that bulletproof feel at a constant framerate with no stutters and freezes.

As one of the eight games on the Steam top 99 that lists 6GB RAM or greater as a minimum requirement I did think the gameplay was very good though for something that might be considered a worst case scenario.

And just remember even the A10 APU is basically considered a low end CPU and GPU set-up by most our standards. I am not recommending 4GB shared RAM for someone's main computing rig.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Remember all 4GB games too, because you dont have 4GB.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I realize that, but it would nice if AMD could provide a fix for the almost 2 years of A10 Kaveri APUs that have already accumulated.

Not gonna happen. Sorry, bud.

Just like they didn't make that hexcore SR that you wanted.

 

[cbn]

Not gonna happen. Sorry, bud.

OK, and how do you know this for certain?

(With that mentioned, I do realize the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of your prediction being right.....but that doesn't necessarily mean GDDR5 not making it to FM2+ would be the right outcome)

Just like they didn't make that hexcore SR that you wanted.

At the time (January 2015) I suggested the SR hexcore because there was concern that Zen would be nothing more than a mildly souped up cat core. Therefore I definitely wanted to see one last good true desktop CPU (designed with trimmed caches to keep cost down) from AMD. This because I was thinking such a processor might have to last quite some time (~years) before they could beef up Zen sufficiently.

Fortunately, for all of us, Zen will probably be a pretty decent desktop CPU out of the gate. Therefore, no need for an extended lifespan hexcore (with a lower cost structure than the L3 cache heavy Vishera) to carry us through.

 

[DrMrLordX]

AM4 is looking like a March-June 2016 launch. If you really think they're going to drop everything and make GDDR5 happen for FM2+ with support from board partners then hey, you go right on thinking that. They've got two quarters max before they effectively EoL FM2+ and AM3+.

It's a dead issue, and it looks like HBM is cheaper to implement than GDDR5 anyway so why bother?

 

[cbn]

AM4 is looking like a March-June 2016 launch.

The original Bristol Ridge rumors (end of January 2015) pointed to a Q3 2016 release. Furthermore, according to MSI info linked in post #106 the executive doesn't think AMD has the AM4 specs finalized yet. Also, isn't the Zen 8C/16 supposed to come the very end of 2016?

If you really think they're going to drop everything and make GDDR5 happen for FM2+ with support from board partners then hey, you go right on thinking that.

I don't think having GDDR5 boards released would necessarily cause AMD to drop everything if the FM2+ socket remains the same (but instead of DIMM slots there is some soldered on GDDR5).

It's a dead issue, and it looks like HBM is cheaper to implement than GDDR5 anyway so why bother?

1.) Citation on HBM being cheaper than GDDR5?

2.) Also how is HBM factoring in here? Isn't that something reserved *possibly* for 2017 Zen APUs only?

 

[DrMrLordX]

The original Bristol Ridge rumors (end of January 2015) pointed to a Q3 2016 release. Furthermore, according to MSI info linked in post #106 the executive doesn't think AMD has the AM4 specs finalized yet. Also, isn't the Zen 8C/16 supposed to come the very end of 2016?

The matter of an earlier-than-Zen release for AM4 + Bristol Ridge is in active discussion in at least two other threads in this forum. Long story short: Zauba printouts show samples of AM4 (Myrtle) shipping to board partners as far back as Nov. 2015. The comments from the MSI veep don't square with that.

I don't think having GDDR5 boards released would necessarily cause AMD to drop everything if the FM2+ socket remains the same (but instead of DIMM slots there is some soldered on GDDR5).

We're going around in circles here. AMD hasn't got the money to continue extending an old platform that has no products in the pipeline. If they did, it would potentially undermine sales of Bristol Ridge/AM4. As The Stilt articulated in another thread, GDDR5 support on Kaveri "never left the lab". It's unproven functionality. You're chasing shadows.

1.) Citation on HBM being cheaper than GDDR5?

HBM is nothing but stacked DRAM. It has less support hardware:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9390/the-amd-radeon-r9-fury-x-review/6

Assuming normalization of costs (that is, once HBM has reached market maturity so that R&D costs and scarcity of parts are no longer major cost factors), HBM would inevitably be cheaper to implement than GDDR5.

2.) Also how is HBM factoring in here? Isn't that something reserved *possibly* for 2017 Zen APUs only?

Bingo. That's the direction AMD is going . . . HBM2 on Raven Ridge. They are not going to invest anything in GDDR5 when HBM2 is their target.

 

[jpiniero]

The three things I am hoping for with Cannonlake is:

- A phone, preferably with the LTE modem ondie
- Quad Core ultrabooks, even if it's limited to i5 and i7
- 20 core Xeon-D. Moar corez!!

 

[cbn]

it would potentially undermine sales of Bristol Ridge/AM4.

I don't think there would be much, if any, conflict with Bristol Ridge/AM4.

The processor support is different, the costs are different. The only thing that would happen is 4GB (or more) GDDR5 is going to boost the existing supply of FM2+ APUs.

 

[cbn]

It's a dead issue, and it looks like HBM is cheaper to implement than GDDR5 anyway so why bother?

1.) Citation on HBM being cheaper than GDDR5?

HBM is nothing but stacked DRAM. It has less support hardware:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9390/the-amd-radeon-r9-fury-x-review/6

Assuming normalization of costs (that is, once HBM has reached market maturity so that R&D costs and scarcity of parts are no longer major cost factors), HBM would inevitably be cheaper to implement than GDDR5.

HBM is DRAM with TSVs in it (among other things) and we don't really know when it will become cheaper than GDDR5 or GDDR5X.

Main thing about HBM is that it can't be used with Kaveri and Godavari APUs.

 

[cbn]

They are not going to invest anything in GDDR5 when HBM2 is their target.

But AMD has already made an investment in GDDR5. (Otherwise it wouldn't be on the Kaveri memory controller).

And motherboard manufacturers have been known release new boards for old sockets:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2435233&highlight= (see post #4 for a LGA 775 board released in 2013)

With this mentioned, one thing to consider is how long AMD intends to support GCN 1.x with driver updates? That will partially determine how long we could see GDDR5 boards released.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Here is Witcher 3 gameplay on a 2.6 Ghz Core 2 duo system with 3GB RAM and HD6670 1GB GDDR5:

https://youtu.be/QcXPkPYDl3s?t=314

Looks good to me. (Very smooth gameplay)

Well, I dont know how he got that video, but I have a HD7770, a 3ghz sandy bridge i5, and 8gb of ram, and gameplay was certainly anything but smooth. I even dropped the resolution to 900p and I couldnt maintain a steady 30fps on low.

 

[cbn]

Well, I dont know how he got that video, but I have a HD7770, a 3ghz sandy bridge i5, and 8gb of ram, and gameplay was certainly anything but smooth. I even dropped the resolution to 900p and I couldnt maintain a steady 30fps on low.

He mentions 20-25 FPS in the comments (it does look smooth though), I couldn't find the resolution he used.

P.S. Sounds like you were CPU or GPU bottlenecked before the 8GB RAM became an issue.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I was gpu bottlenecked, but ram use went as high as 4.5 gb, so 4 gb shared with the igpu would certainly not be enough.

 

[cbn]

Well, I dont know how he got that video, but I have a HD7770, a 3ghz sandy bridge i5, and 8gb of ram, and gameplay was certainly anything but smooth. I even dropped the resolution to 900p and I couldnt maintain a steady 30fps on low.

He mentions 20-25 FPS in the comments (it does look smooth though), I couldn't find the resolution he used.

P.S. Sounds like you were CPU or GPU bottlenecked before the 8GB RAM became an issue.

I was gpu bottlenecked, but ram use went as high as 4.5 gb, so 4 gb shared with the igpu would certainly not be enough.

One thing to consider is if Witcher 3 is too much for an APU (regardless of how much shared RAM it has).

Your HD7770 (which is essentially the same card as my R7 250X) has 640sp @ 1000 Mhz.

And these low end video cards you and I own are about 74% more powerful in GPU core than the iGPU found in a A10-7850K (512sp @ 720 Mhz). Compared to the A10-7870K (512sp@ 866 Mhz) HD7770/R7 250X has 44% more GPU core.

That doesn't even consider bandwidth differences current APUs with DDR3 have which widens the effective GPU gap even more.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yes, that is the point I was trying to make. No APU, even with GDDR5 is sufficient for a decent 1080p experience in the most demanding current games. It just seems pointless to go to the extra effort of pairing GDDR5 with an APU, when you need a discrete card anyway to play a lot of current games at 1080p.

Edit: I guess my other point is that I really put no stock in Youtube videos for benchmarking. With a core 2 duo system and a 6670, you may be able to pick a few minutes of game play that looks smooth, but overall, I guarantee you that the game is going to be a terrible experience. Even if you cut the resolution way down to account for the video card, I expect you will then just be cpu limited.

 

[cbn]

It just seems pointless to go to the extra effort of pairing GDDR5 with an APU

It will definitely boost and help the iGPU though.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

They are. It's fixable for anyone that knows how to run a .bat file. Good grief.

Beat me to it. My mildly overclocked A10 never throttles, although I did upgrade it with an aftermarket cooler.