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It's your fault, but it's your vendor and AMD's fault

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<< Hey if I bought a car from you today, I drive it into a tree and return it to you in totalled state tomorrow, do you feel like you should have to give me the money back? >>



well... it's prolly harder for the vendor or amd to prove that u fried/busted the chip. i'm fairly certainly the car dealership will be able to prove that the tree did not run into your car. 😉 but yeah... u posted something like this in my ecs/ddr murdering thread... i feel ya. uhh... that didn't sound right. 😱
 


<<

<< Hey if I bought a car from you today, I drive it into a tree and return it to you in totalled state tomorrow, do you feel like you should have to give me the money back? >>



well... it's prolly harder for the vendor or amd to prove that u fried/busted the chip. i'm fairly certainly the car dealership will be able to prove that the tree did not run into your car. 😉 but yeah... u posted something like this in my ecs/ddr murdering thread... i feel ya. uhh... that didn't sound right. 😱 >>

I hear ya 😉
 


<< AMD and the companies who sell their chips market the cpus to a "do it yourself" croud. If they aren't smart enough to make and sell a heatsink that works either way you mount it, they should be forced to eat the cost of replacing a fried chip. If not, they should ONLY sell to authorized, trained OEMs who attach the heatsink with an indestructable, unremovable fastening system.

Better yet, if AMD can't design a chip that won't destroy itself if it's run without a heatsink (like Intel does), they should expect to eat the price of many replacement chips.

Some poor kid who is building his first system and puts the heatsink on backwards should not be forced to take a $100-270 loss. >>



Agreed
 


<< Actually not. I thought I'd speak up about my view on forcing someone else to pay for your fault after the K7S5A+burnt memory thread. >>




hey, thats me! i updated me thread 😀

 


<<

<< AMD and the companies who sell their chips market the cpus to a "do it yourself" croud. If they aren't smart enough to make and sell a heatsink that works either way you mount it, they should be forced to eat the cost of replacing a fried chip. If not, they should ONLY sell to authorized, trained OEMs who attach the heatsink with an indestructable, unremovable fastening system.

Better yet, if AMD can't design a chip that won't destroy itself if it's run without a heatsink (like Intel does), they should expect to eat the price of many replacement chips.

Some poor kid who is building his first system and puts the heatsink on backwards should not be forced to take a $100-270 loss. >>



Agreed >>

Boohoo, I'm a poor kid and because I'm not a dumbass I didn't put my hsf on backwards. Tell the kid to go drain the oil out of his car, put oil in the windshield washer tank and washer fluid in the engine and then have him drive around for a few minutes...then have him tow it to his local dealership and have him demand a new engine...
 


<< AMD and the companies who sell their chips market the cpus to a "do it yourself" croud. If they aren't smart enough to make and sell a heatsink that works either way you mount it, they should be forced to eat the cost of replacing a fried chip. If not, they should ONLY sell to authorized, trained OEMs who attach the heatsink with an indestructable, unremovable fastening system.

Better yet, if AMD can't design a chip that won't destroy itself if it's run without a heatsink (like Intel does), they should expect to eat the price of many replacement chips.

Some poor kid who is building his first system and puts the heatsink on backwards should not be forced to take a $100-270 loss. >>



I'm assuming that was tongue-in-cheek. In case it wasn't:
If you follow the instructions with the AMD chips, it is pretty hard to screw up. No, it is nigh impossible to screw up. That's not just a lesson for building PCs -- it's a lesson for life.

I've set up 3 AMD-retail-box-heatsink combos. They work. Yes, my heart is in my mouth every time I latch down that heatsink (waiting for the crunching sound that hasn't yet come)... but where are we guaranteed that it is easy or risk-free to build a computer? If you want risk-free, you buy a pre-built from Dell, GW2K, or the local PC hobbiest store. Similarly, if you decide to do a ring job on your car, and score the cylinders badly, that isn't the fault of the auto company.

FWIW: I have two P4s as well, and greatly prefer the retention mechanism designed by Intel -- no heart-in-mouth when pulling the latch. But I knew what I was getting into when I bought the AMD parts -- and if I didn't know what I was getting into, I had little business building my own PC.
 


<< Some poor kid who is building his first system and puts the heatsink on backwards should not be forced to take a $100-270 loss. >>



That's gotta be one of the most stupid things I've ever heard/read.

If the "poor kid" can't read directions properly, or doesn't know how to properly install it, the "poor kid" should not be doing it. You buy the damn thing, you install it properly. If it dies when properly installed, it's the manufacturers fault. If it dies because you made a mistake, that's YOUR fault. Can't afford to "take a $100-$270 loss"?? Then either do it properly, or find someone that can do it properly to do it for you.

Sheeesh.....

I can see it now "this is my first ride in my new car, I didn't know how to properly operate it, I slammed it into a wall. Surely it must be the car maker's fault!".

Ornery is right, it's become the land of "point the finger" and the "blame game". Nobody is responsible for their own actions, there's always someone else to blame. :|
 


<< AMD and the companies who sell their chips market the cpus to a "do it yourself" croud. If they aren't smart enough to make and sell a heatsink that works either way you mount it, they should be forced to eat the cost of replacing a fried chip. >>



The retail package actually says "for authorized AMD installers". Anyways AMD gladly takes RMA on their retail CPU failures that occurs as a result of installation with good faith using supplied materials. Last time I checked, Alpha PAL 8045 wasn't one of them.



<< If not, they should ONLY sell to authorized, trained OEMs who attach the heatsink with an indestructable, unremovable fastening system. >>



um... Alot of OEM chips that newbies are buying aren't sold to DIY people by AMD and they don't provide warranty on them. You shouldn't be buying OEM chips from shops when you aren't properly educated about the component.



<<
Better yet, if AMD can't design a chip that won't destroy itself if it's run without a heatsink (like Intel does), they should expect to eat the price of many replacement chips. >>



Should manufacture's and department store take responsiblity for broken drinking glasses and vases, because they aren't as negligence proof as their plastic counterpart?




<<
Some poor kid who is building his first system and puts the heatsink on backwards should not be forced to take a $100-270 loss. >>



Too f'ing bad. Cry me a river. Whilst I feel bad for the loss, whatever the excuse to your negligence doesn't entitle you to screw someone else over. Any poor people demanding less responsibilities should be given less rights as well.

A poor kid should buy a pre-built computer from a vendor, if thats too expensive get something used.

Some poor kid chose to buy an OEM chip to save ~$10 or chose to void warranty on AMD by using unapproved critical parts such as Alpha PAL 8045. Obviously he should have acknowledged that he is accepting the risk. I wouldn't be surprised if a dealer has to charge 20-30% the chip price after calculating the piles of destoryed chips that were returned at their purchase value and to make any profit on "AMD Athlon stupidity insurance".

They should ofcourse record all the serial #'s, so people won't go buy an OEM chip and return the newly bought OEM chip to them to reclaim the insurance premium.





 
I agree that most CPU frying incidents are due to an improper installation, but there are a rare few due to a defective part. The only problem is trying to decide which is which. I also agree that if someone is to blame for braking there processor, then they should not RMA it.



<< Too f'ing bad. Cry me a river. Whilst I feel bad for the loss, whatever the excuse to your negligence doesn't entitle you to screw someone else over. >>



Sure they shouldnt get a new CPU, but come on, show a little sympathy. It happens to the best of us.

I just cant wait to see the look on Jerboy's face when there is a 3mm gap between his HS/F and his CPU core, and he gets to spend another $150 of hard earned money to buy a new processor.
 


<< AMD and the companies who sell their chips market the cpus to a "do it yourself" croud. If they aren't smart enough to make and sell a heatsink that works either way you mount it, they should be forced to eat the cost of replacing a fried chip. If not, they should ONLY sell to authorized, trained OEMs who attach the heatsink with an indestructable, unremovable fastening system.

Better yet, if AMD can't design a chip that won't destroy itself if it's run without a heatsink (like Intel does), they should expect to eat the price of many replacement chips.

Some poor kid who is building his first system and puts the heatsink on backwards should not be forced to take a $100-270 loss. >>



Wrong. So the manufacturer should shoulder all the liability for the product even if the person is a blatherning moron who shouldn't even own an Imac? Sorry, if you want to take on the responsibility of building a PC, and either are stupid enough to mount a CPU fan backwards, or do a little research on the CORRECT way to install the CPU/HSF unit, and you destroy it.. It's YOUR responsibility, NOT the Manufacturers, and NOT the vendors. It's literally NOT rocket science, it's simple common sense.

I will say, that AMD's core design with the fragile core exposed is destined to fail, and a large amount of failures /returns could be stopped with a simple heat spreader, which they have been talking about for a long time, but not doing anything.
 


<< I agree that most CPU frying incidents are due to an improper installation, but there are a rare few due to a defective part. >>



Even though it sounds unfair, sometimes you'll just have to scream "sh!t" a hundred times.

Have you ever seen a statement like this?

Repair or replacement, as provided under this warranty, is your exclusive remedy. [company's name] shall not be liable for any incidental or consequential damages. Implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose on this product are limited in duration to the duration of this warranty.

In some rare exceptions, you're entitled a compensation for consequential damage. If your state is one of them, tell them that fact and demand compensation. If they fail to pay, collect through a legal action for the damage as well as the time you had to involve yourself in for the specific matter as lost time is part of a consequential damage(this has happened before).


Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. Some states/countries do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitation may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights that vary from state to state.





<<
The only problem is trying to decide which is which. I also agree that if someone is to blame for braking there processor, then they should not RMA it. >>



Yes I know what you mean, but this is the risk you take if you want to pursue this hobby.



<<
Sure they shouldnt get a new CPU, but come on, show a little sympathy. It happens to the best of us. >>





Yes I have sympathy for people who have unfortunate things happen to them. Come here and I'll listen to your story, give a little sympathy and I'll let you cry it off on my shoulder. It doesn't, however mean I show sympathy for screwing someone else over for the cause.

Even though each processor is a small cash at store or corporate level, a policy that allows this would hurt them big time.





<<
I just cant wait to see the look on Jerboy's face when there is a 3mm gap between his HS/F and his CPU core, and he gets to spend another $150 of hard earned money to buy a new processor. >>



First of all, you'd have to be quite careless or stupid to not notice a 3mm gap. Thats enough gap to fit two paperclips in between. I'd be irritated, agitated and feel pissed until the next morning or so. I'm sure I'd wear a pissy expression for a while. If it was such a big mistake like 3mm gap, I'd be more angry at myself than pissed for how I could made such a stupid mistake. like I did when I got D's and F's in my grade reports. I accept the fact it's my fault that I got those grade and I'm paying the consequence by retaking the class on my own time. I didn't demand the school to give me an A through a legal action as if it was the school's fault for failing to properly educate me.

 
Well AMD could stop things like this from happening. I built racing cylinder heads for a long time and I would put a little heat sensing crayon mark on the heads if they came back with the mark gone or the color changed warranty was no good due to overheating. AMD could and should do the same thing.
Bleep
 
They do it because they can get away with it, and i'd likely do the same if I were a moron who didn't know how to properly install a chip/heatsink combo properly.

I don't think many people who know that it's possible to get a free replacement wouldn't try and get it for free, I mean who is going to fork over big bucks when the opportunity to get over on the man presents itself.

There are always going to be the cyber-rightious, you know, people who claim to be saints and incapable of such a sin, but for the most part we get away with what we can but are not stupid enough to tell you so when you call us on it. Just like if they know we will pay a certain price for something they are not likely going to sell it for less even though it's likely worth a lot less, so that makes people feel justified in doing so.
 


<< Some poor kid who is building his first system and puts the heatsink on backwards should not be forced to take a $100-270 loss. >>



And this is the reason why DELL and Gateway and other such company's are around. For people who don't know what they're doing.
 


<< Ok, who put another nickel in Jerboy? >>



Hehehe.. that made my night 🙂

My opinion on the thread: The Manufacturer's Warranty should and only should cover things which are defects in workmanship and materials related to the product itself. In other words, things that are the manufacturer's fault. Period.
 
I also created a thread similar to this.... here

I am so tired of being treated like I'm a damn criminal when I try to RMA something or exchange something..


:|:|:|

zs
 


<< I also created a thread similar to this.... here

I am so tired of being treated like I'm a damn criminal when I try to RMA something or exchange something..


:|:|:|

zs >>



It depends on the purpose of getting an exchange. Some college kid posted he blew his Athlon to overclocking accident and he was going to buy a new processor from a local vendor and return his broken CPU to them.

I think he's a criminal. He's guilty of fraudulent return, not a whole lot better than stealing.

When something breaks and you KNOW you blew it, trying to get it exchanged by convincing them through a false statement is a fraud.

 


<<

<< I also created a thread similar to this.... here

I am so tired of being treated like I'm a damn criminal when I try to RMA something or exchange something..


:|:|:|

zs >>



It depends on the purpose of getting an exchange. Some college kid posted he blew his Athlon to overclocking accident and he was going to buy a new processor from a local vendor and return his broken CPU to them.

I think he's a criminal. He's guilty of fraudulent return, not a whole lot better than stealing.

When something breaks and you KNOW you blew it, trying to get it exchanged by convincing them through a false statement is a fraud. >>



Agree.

Oh, and here's all my change.......twenty five... no... 27 cents(the quarter and my $.02)

zs
 
And why do you think CPUs nowadays cost so much. Because companies know that every 1/50 maybe 1/100 processors will be fried and RMA'd even if its the consumer's fault. Companies are adapting to consumers. If a company sells all of their processors for more money, but allow RMA's on fried CPUs, then they make the same amount of money (or more) than if they sold them for a lower price and didnt accept any RMA's. The only people getting screwed over are consumers who didnt fry their CPUs.
 
It's been a few months since I put together a P4 system, but I remember that it's impossible to mount the heatsink incorrectly. And the chip won't fry if you turn the system on without the heatsink on the cpu.

Consequently, you'll never see a "it's your fault, but it's your vendor and Intel's fault" threads anytime soon.

Of course, that's why I always buy retail AMD chips and strongly recommend that anyone building a system do the same... if something goes wrong, you're not going to get the sort of hostility that jerboy shows... they're just going to fix it.
 


<< The only people getting screwed over are consumers who didnt fry their CPUs. >>




That's why it pisses me off. Why shall rest of people who know what they're doing and I have to pay the extra cost just so stupid kid frying their chip won't be out of $200? Obviously, the kid had extra $200 he didn't really need, because otherwise he wouldn't even contemplate on spending it on a CPU, therefore, he could absorb the cost.

 


<<
Agreed. It seems Jerboy can't get any respect here even when he's 100% right. >>



I noticed that too.. Some people didn't particularly take my "free lunch" thread kindly, especially those who were raised on it.
 
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