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It's time for National Health Care
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Once again I say, it's because the other countries are overtaxing their citizens. We gave more than any other country out there. Other than Japan, we gave damn near 3 times the amount of the next closest!
We have less income, and a higher operating budget. You can't get more from less.
I never thought much of a national health care system - until now. I've been unemployed for the past two months. Family coverage under COBRA runs about $950 a month. If I wanted to include dental coverage, that amount would jump by about $140 a month. I'm not a fan of getting the government involved with things - however, our healthcare system needs to be re-worked. Fortunately, I was able to get my wife and daughter out under another plan of their own. Now, we just pay about $500 a month for medical insurance - and that also includes dental coverage for my wife and daughter.
To make things worse, the plan that I'm under (an HMO plan with AETNA) will cease to exist on December 31, 2002. At that time, I will go over to a PPO plan and my premiums will go up about $25.00 a month. The PPO plan will not be fun because of all the deductibles that I'll be responsible for.
I was lazy and didn't read through all the replies to this thread. However, for those who oppose national health care, just get yourself unemployed for a while and take advantage of those COBRA services. You'll quickly see how bad we need a national health care plan. I'm just glad Hillary Clinton is no longer our President to oversee the process of rolling out a national healthcare plan. :Q :Q
To make things worse, the plan that I'm under (an HMO plan with AETNA) will cease to exist on December 31, 2002. At that time, I will go over to a PPO plan and my premiums will go up about $25.00 a month. The PPO plan will not be fun because of all the deductibles that I'll be responsible for.
I was lazy and didn't read through all the replies to this thread. However, for those who oppose national health care, just get yourself unemployed for a while and take advantage of those COBRA services. You'll quickly see how bad we need a national health care plan. I'm just glad Hillary Clinton is no longer our President to oversee the process of rolling out a national healthcare plan. :Q :Q
I read an article a few years ago that sdiscussed the rising cost of health care and they pointed directly at the insurance companies. But not for what you might think.
The main reason was that in any service or bussiness prices are determained by supply and demand. However insurance companies really screwed this up because to the consumer they were no longer paying 40 dollars for an office visit they were paying 5. Therefor you are more likely to go to the doctor for a cold or something minor where as before people were much more selective about what would cause them to go to the doctor. Because of this the Demand for health care increased and the supply stayed the same. Under a normal system the prices would rise to drive demand down. However the consumers never saw the price increase because they were not paying the bill (the employer was). So the demand did not go down with the price of medicine. I really wish I could remember where I read that article🙁
A Nationalized Health system is not the answer. Less Government and putting caps on malpractice does help. Right now if my son wanted to go to medical school I would slap him aroud because the costs to get the training are way out of wack with the pay you recieve. I work with doctors on a regular basis and the ones that have been foing this a while have seen there pay drop. Only because of capitation (HMO's) and malpractice insurance. They are seeing more patients and hospitals are required to see patients even if they are uninsured. This of course meens that they must charge thoose of us that do pay more to cover the costs of the non payers.
I really don't know what the answer to "fixing" the growing cost of health care. I do know that when the governement steps in to save us it usually ends in disaster. (see Rent control, gas crisis, Electricity in california, ect.)
The main reason was that in any service or bussiness prices are determained by supply and demand. However insurance companies really screwed this up because to the consumer they were no longer paying 40 dollars for an office visit they were paying 5. Therefor you are more likely to go to the doctor for a cold or something minor where as before people were much more selective about what would cause them to go to the doctor. Because of this the Demand for health care increased and the supply stayed the same. Under a normal system the prices would rise to drive demand down. However the consumers never saw the price increase because they were not paying the bill (the employer was). So the demand did not go down with the price of medicine. I really wish I could remember where I read that article🙁
A Nationalized Health system is not the answer. Less Government and putting caps on malpractice does help. Right now if my son wanted to go to medical school I would slap him aroud because the costs to get the training are way out of wack with the pay you recieve. I work with doctors on a regular basis and the ones that have been foing this a while have seen there pay drop. Only because of capitation (HMO's) and malpractice insurance. They are seeing more patients and hospitals are required to see patients even if they are uninsured. This of course meens that they must charge thoose of us that do pay more to cover the costs of the non payers.
I really don't know what the answer to "fixing" the growing cost of health care. I do know that when the governement steps in to save us it usually ends in disaster. (see Rent control, gas crisis, Electricity in california, ect.)
Living in Canada and paying taxes like nobody (we do have the highest tax rate in all of north American states/provinces... wooohouu!), I truly can't say that free, state based healthcare is the best we can get. Wait lists of about 3 months for hearth/cancer surgery. Had to wait 2 months to get an ingrown toenail removed. Even our politicians, bragging about our good and nice system, are sometimes going to the US to get treated as the waitlists are too long here...🙁
I think a mix of public and private system would be the best way to go. The government offers a basic service (like it does now), but people have the right to open a private clinic where patients pay for a service they receive.
I think a mix of public and private system would be the best way to go. The government offers a basic service (like it does now), but people have the right to open a private clinic where patients pay for a service they receive.
Vic
Elite Member
More per dollar sign is all I care about. If we give more, we give more, foreign aid is not a beauty contest. Personally I wish we didn't give any. Foreign aid recipients are the welfare mothers of international politics.
Just like Euro-trolls from socialist nations who don't enable their profiles are the unwanted assholes of American message boards. And the discussion was not about foreign aid but about whether or not the US should look at a National Health Care system. The answer is no because (1) while your country probably has a virtual closed door on immigrants, we receive millions per year, the raw influx of which would bankrupt any national health system we tried to set up in a hurry and (2) socialism is not our way. We lead not follow.
The problems with and high cost of health care in the US would not be fixed by any socialized system. They would be fixed by increasing pure capitalism into the system and tort reform to get rid of the billion dollar settlements on broken toenails. Not the kind of "capitalism" they sell in those power deregulation schemes but the real thing. Pick your own insurance company, pick your own doctor, pick your own services and care. Competition returns to the industry, prices go down, care becomes affordable for most everyone again, problem solved. You do not solve problems caused by socialism by adding more socialism. Socialism is the problem, not the fix. It stifles competition and makes everyone involved a government contractor with a fat pay raise. :disgust:
Jeez... what's next? Should we have a National Computer Entitlement system where everyone gets a brand new rig every year too?
sandorski
No Lifer
IMO, the US would greatly benefit from National Healthcare, but a fundamental shift in society would have to happen, otherwise it would just get borked up. As this thread(and others) show, when talking about NH or other government initiatives are discussed, paranoia about Commies is many Americans first response. Hardly an environment where NH could succeed.
Foreign Aid: Somewhat of a misnomer, when comparing US vs RoW. Much of US foreign aid is the supply of military equipment, not food or economic aid, which most people seem to assume. The fact is that the EU gives much more to Food and Economic Aid than the US.
Foreign Aid: Somewhat of a misnomer, when comparing US vs RoW. Much of US foreign aid is the supply of military equipment, not food or economic aid, which most people seem to assume. The fact is that the EU gives much more to Food and Economic Aid than the US.
Sorry bud but your figures do not include the safety net the US Armed Forces provide you and your neighbors. We spend more on our defense budget than the GNP of most of the world's countries. The US is THE FIRST there in the event of any disaster man-made or natural
You can kiss my arse anytime now!
😉
...And Cuba? Where they ration beans and rice? I guess boatloads of Americans trying to get there any way they can just can't be wrong!
StinkyPinky
Diamond Member
Take a look at your own CIA website. You Americans have the lowest life expectancy of any western country, the highest infant mortality, the highest death rate, and yet you spend the MOST on health care and are quite possibly the richest country on the planet. So to call your system the "best in the world" is a joke.
But hey, I'm sure its just some evil socialist plot
But hey, I'm sure its just some evil socialist plot
sandorski
No Lifer
Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Take a look at your own CIA website. You Americans have the lowest life expectancy of any western country, the highest infant mortality, the highest death rate, and yet you spend the MOST on health care and are quite possibly the richest country on the planet. So to call your system the "best in the world" is a joke.
But hey, I'm sure its just some evil socialist plot
Damn Pinko Communist CIA can't be trusted!! 😀 😉
Linflas
Lifer
Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Take a look at your own CIA website. You Americans have the lowest life expectancy of any western country, the highest infant mortality, the highest death rate, and yet you spend the MOST on health care and are quite possibly the richest country on the planet. So to call your system the "best in the world" is a joke.
But hey, I'm sure its just some evil socialist plot
I suspect that is more related to our fondness for fatty foods than it does with the level of health care delivered.
sandorski
No Lifer
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Take a look at your own CIA website. You Americans have the lowest life expectancy of any western country, the highest infant mortality, the highest death rate, and yet you spend the MOST on health care and are quite possibly the richest country on the planet. So to call your system the "best in the world" is a joke.
But hey, I'm sure its just some evil socialist plot
I suspect that is more related to our fondness for fatty foods than it does with the level of health care delivered.
Then how can you know for sure it's "the best" then? Results can be the only measure of comparison. BTW, the diet habits of Canadians isn't much different, yet Canada ranks higher.
Linflas
Lifer
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Take a look at your own CIA website. You Americans have the lowest life expectancy of any western country, the highest infant mortality, the highest death rate, and yet you spend the MOST on health care and are quite possibly the richest country on the planet. So to call your system the "best in the world" is a joke.
But hey, I'm sure its just some evil socialist plot
I suspect that is more related to our fondness for fatty foods than it does with the level of health care delivered.
Then how can you know for sure it's "the best" then? Results can be the only measure of comparison. BTW, the diet habits of Canadians isn't much different, yet Canada ranks higher.
I didn't claim it was the best and longevity statistics do not directly prove anything about health care. There are many different factors that go into life expectancy for any particular country and health care is only 1 of them.
Amused
Elite Member
Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
Take a look at your own CIA website. You Americans have the lowest life expectancy of any western country, the highest infant mortality, the highest death rate, and yet you spend the MOST on health care and are quite possibly the richest country on the planet. So to call your system the "best in the world" is a joke.
But hey, I'm sure its just some evil socialist plot
With freedom comes risk, and unfortunately, irresponsibility. However, I'd rather have freedom and those "bad stats" over oppressive cradle to grave security insured with the loss of my autonomy.
To be honest, it is sad that a few lard assed heart/diabeties patients and inner city gangbangers drive down our average life expectancy. But to say that means we need socialized health care is silly. It will only make irresponsibility WORSE, not better
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