It's time for an SSD! Need a little help please

[Dward]

Hi guys,

After the great help you guys gave me in overclocking my i5 760 http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2135442, which is still rock stable at 3.8Ghz at load, I have come back for help with my next purchase... and SSD!

My current system is:
i5 760 @ 1.8Ghz at idle and 3.8Ghz at load! (200x19)
Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3
- 6xSATA-II connectors & 2xSATA-III with Marvel 9128 chipset
G.Skill 4GB (2x2GB) kit, PC-12800 (1600Mhz), 6-8-6-24-2N
Corsair CMPSU-650HX 650W ATX Modular PSU
Gainward GTX 570
1TB Western Digital Black Caviar
Antec 300 Case
2xScythe S-FLEX 120mm Fan 1200RPM (Front of case)
Xigmatek Dark Knight Revision 3 CPU Heatsink & Cooler

I have been watching the latest SSD's role out over the last 2-3 months with great interest. I have read a lot on all of them and could not decide which one out of (120GB versions):

OCZ Vertex 3, Corsair Force 3, Crucial m4 or Intel 510

Until OCZ released the Vertex 3 MAX IOPS 120GB SSD! To read it came with better 3xmm NAND for only a few extra $$$ got me really excited!

My only dilemma is my old SATA-III chipset on my motherboard, the Marvell 9128. I have read that because it is only on a PCi bus lane of x1 I will not get my full SATA-III speeds of roughly 550/500. (I know they are only marketing figures!)

Source: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/f...-speeds-speeds-not-up-to-spec....-please-help

When I get the SSD, should I connect it to either the standard (and trusted!) SATA-II port or to the Marvel SATA-III port?

If the Marvell one, I will of course install the Marvell chipset drivers. But should I install them after I install Intel Rapid Storage Technology or before? (For compatibility reasons, as I have read on some websites that some people get errors when IRST is installed or not installed... can't remember which way!)

Also another question, I have read that I should run my SSD, no matter which port I plug it in to, in AHCI mode. Is that correct?

One last question! With SSD's, do you format them before you install a fresh copy of W7 or just plug it in, reboot and install W7?

Thanks

Daniel

 

[WaTaGuMp]

The SSD sticky should answer a few of your questions.

 

[Zap]

OCZ Vertex 3, Corsair Force 3, Crucial m4 or Intel 510

Capacity is more important than which one you choose out of your list. Buy the most GB for your $$.

When I get the SSD, should I connect it to either the standard (and trusted!) SATA-II port or to the Marvel SATA-III port?

You should still get a hair better performance on the Marvel controller with an SSD that is native SATA 6G.

If the Marvell one, I will of course install the Marvell chipset drivers. But should I install them after I install Intel Rapid Storage Technology or before?

Install Intel chipset drivers first. After that, IMO doesn't matter which order. I've never personally come across any incompatibility brought about by storage driver order.

Also another question, I have read that I should run my SSD, no matter which port I plug it in to, in AHCI mode. Is that correct?

It will help maximize performance.

One last question! With SSD's, do you format them before you install a fresh copy of W7 or just plug it in, reboot and install W7?

My last answer is that this was covered very clearly and specifically in the SSD sticky.

The SSD sticky should answer a few of your questions.

That's too easy, especially since I did a big update of it yesterday. 🙄

 

[WaTaGuMp]

That's too easy, especially since I did a big update of it yesterday. 🙄

About time, slacker. :biggrin:

 

[Yellowbeard]

You should still get a hair better performance on the Marvel controller with an SSD that is native SATA 6G.

In the little bit of testing I did, the Intel controller soundly thumped the Marvell controller. However, that's been a few months so driver improvements may have changed this.

 

[Zap]

In the little bit of testing I did, the Intel controller soundly thumped the Marvell controller. However, that's been a few months so driver improvements may have changed this.

Anand compared the native Intel ICH10R SATA ports to the Marvell and found that the "slower" Intel was quite competitive. I'm sure the new Intel SATA 6G ports on Sandy Bridge motherboards will soundly beat the Marvell controller.

Still, I think the latest SSDs with native SATA 6G may benefit from the Marvell controller. Why I say this is because the reviews show that they take a huge performance hit by going SATA 3G.

Yellowbeard, for the Intel controller, which ones did you use?

 

[RU482]

clear perspective came to me when I saw my Z530 Atom tablet w/ SSD boot as fast as a an i5 Sandy Bridge system with a pair of Hard Drives in Soft RAID.

 

[Dward]

Thanks for the info so far.

In relation to installing Windows, in your sticky you have this:

How to install and use an SSD (Windows 7 & general info). updated 05/30/2011

Step 1: Enable AHCI in BIOS. (alternately RAID)

Step 2: Install Windows 7.

My question was in relation to Step 2. I have not installed W7 for a while so my memory is a bit vague, but isn't there an option to format before installing W7 in an advanced menu? I presume it will come up as "Disk 0: Unallocated Space", so you are saying just click ok on that and I am good to go?


The Intel sata II vs Marvell III is an interesting debate, the intel controller I have is the ICH10R. Doing a simple "ICH10R vs 9128" or "ICH10R vs Marvell" google search sees a lot of sway towards the intel controller. For both compatibility and performance.

Especially this article: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=413&Itemid=38
^I know this is a bit outdated, but it makes me trust my intel controller far more than my Marvell one!

And this one: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-261789.html
^Very thorough and a good read if you have the time!

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Thanks for the info so far.

In relation to installing Windows, in your sticky you have this:

How to install and use an SSD (Windows 7 & general info). updated 05/30/2011

Step 1: Enable AHCI in BIOS. (alternately RAID)

Step 2: Install Windows 7.

My question was in relation to Step 2. I have not installed W7 for a while so my memory is a bit vague, but isn't there an option to format before installing W7 in an advanced menu? I presume it will come up as "Disk 0: Unallocated Space", so you are saying just click ok on that and I am good to go?


The Intel sata II vs Marvell III is an interesting debate, the intel controller I have is the ICH10R. Doing a simple "ICH10R vs 9128" or "ICH10R vs Marvell" google search sees a lot of sway towards the intel controller. For both compatibility and performance.

Especially this article: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=413&Itemid=38
^I know this is a bit outdated, but it makes me trust my intel controller far more than my Marvell one!

And this one: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-261789.html
^Very thorough and a good read if you have the time!

Usually when I am doing a fresh install I only have my drive plugged in that I will be formatting and installing the OS on. That way there is no confusion, as long as you have AHCI set, you cant mess it up. Here are some pictures to refresh your memory.


http://www.windowsreinstall.com/win7ultimate/windows7installguides/indexfullpage.htm

 

[Dward]

Arrhh yes, I remember now, thanks!

 

[Yellowbeard]

Yellowbeard, for the Intel controller, which ones did you use?

I used an ICH10-R vs whatever the Marvell is on a Gigabyte X58A UD7.....9136??? controller I think it is.

SATA3 drive vs Force F120 on ICH10-R, both would bench pretty close with a slight edge to the Force drive in most benches and tests. With both drives on on the Marvell controller the SATA3 drive did bench higher in some pure speed benches but in transfer tests and PCMark Vantage, the Force still beat it out. Head to head, the ICH10-R outperformed the Marvell controller across the board for the most part except for pure read speed in ATTO.

 

[Zap]

Step 2: Install Windows 7.

My question was in relation to Step 2. I have not installed W7 for a while so my memory is a bit vague, but isn't there an option to format before installing W7 in an advanced menu? I presume it will come up as "Disk 0: Unallocated Space", so you are saying just click ok on that and I am good to go?

How about this... Pretend your spankin' new SSD is a normal hard drive. Install Windows 7 as you would on a normal hard drive. Does that make it magically easier? :whiste:

With that being said, I always do what WaTaGuMp said. I only have whatever drive Windows will be installed on as the only drive in the system (or only drive hooked up) during the install. The reasons are that I've seen Windows assign strange drive letters (such as Windows being on drive D🙂 and Windows Vista/7 puts a 100MB system partition somewhere... and I've seen Windows automagically put it on a secondary HDD, which then caused a no-boot issue when it was removed.

The Intel sata II vs Marvell III is an interesting debate, the intel controller I have is the ICH10R. Doing a simple "ICH10R vs 9128" or "ICH10R vs Marvell" google search sees a lot of sway towards the intel controller. For both compatibility and performance.

I used an ICH10-R vs whatever the Marvell is on a Gigabyte X58A UD7.....9136??? controller I think it is.

6Gbps SATA Performance: AMD 890GX vs. Intel X58/P55

It’s also worth noting that you’re better off using your 6Gbps SSD on one of the native 3Gbps SATA ports rather than use a 6Gbps card in a PCIe 1.0 slot. Intel’s native SATA ports read at ~265MB/s - better than the Marvell controller on any PCIe 1.0 slot.

Looks as if the native AMD SATA controllers plus the Marvell controller on P55 (halved PCIe bandwidth) was a detriment to performance. The Marvell controller on X58 looks as if it normally ties in worst case scenarios, and best case scenarios came out ahead - see the sequential reads.

Of course the new AnandTech Bench 2011 uses a Sandy Bridge platform with native Intel SATA 6G, and the new drives gain pretty big from it.

So, thank you Yellowbeard, for leading us down this discussion path.

Dward, since you are on P55 with the crippled PCIe bandwidth, use the Intel SATA ports and not the Marvell. Also, if you weren't planning to upgrade to a newer platform anytime soon, then I would recommend to NOT spend anything extra on a SATA 6G (SATA III) SSD since it would be wasted money. Go with a Sandforce 1200 based drive (like the Corsair Force F120 that Yellowbeard mentions) or Intel 320. Alternately, Samsung 470 or Kingston V+100. Those first two are the tops for SATA 3G (SATA II) performance while the latter two aren't bad either.

BTW, SATA II has 3Gbps performance while SATA III has 6Gbps performance. However, I think it is confusing to say SATA 3 because some will think it to be SATA 3Gbps instead of SATA 6Gbps. Confusing, no? Wikipedia says:

Terminology

The name SATA II has become synonymous with the 3 Gbit/s standard. In order to provide the industry with consistent terminology, the SATA-IO has compiled a set of marketing guidelines for the third revision of the specification.

• The SATA 6 Gbit/s specification should be called Serial ATA International Organization: Serial ATA Revision 3.0.
• The technology itself is to be referred to as SATA 6 Gb/s.
• A product using this standard should be called the SATA 6 Gb/s [product name].

Using the terms SATA III or SATA 3.0 to refer to a SATA 6 Gbit/s product is unclear and not preferred. SATA-IO has provided a guideline to foster consistent marketing terminology across the industry.

So I guess "officially" we should be calling it SATA 6 Gb/s. However, I find it easier to type in SATA 6G. :biggrin:

 

[Dward]

This is why I love Anandtech!

Ok so first up, my main concern with the installing W7 part was whether or not to format the drive before I install W7 on it. From my reading it sounds like, as you said, plug it in, reboot with the W7 dvd, and click go! As I read that the install process formats it anyway!

Thanks for the tip about just having my OS drive plugged in. I will probably do that. However if I unplug my HDD and install W7 on my SSD, when I plug my HDD back in (that has the old copy of W7 on it), will my computer get confused at all which copy of W7 to run. Obviously I would reformat my HDD once I got going, but on the initial restart when I plugged it back in what would happen? Is this when I would double check the boot order in the BIOS to make sure it is loading off the SSD and not the HDD?

So the Intel native Sata 3G it is! So just Intel Rapid Storage it is 🙂

Hmmm! With the choice of SSD. Part of the reason I like the Vertex 3 MAX IOPS is the new chipset and excellent quality NAND. Is it worth buying an older chipset and less quality NAND just to save a few dollars when I won't be upgrading SSD's anytime soon!?

Thanks again

Daniel

 

[WaTaGuMp]

As long as you have your boot settings correct you shouldn't have an issue having Windows on another drive.

 

[Zap]

Hmmm! With the choice of SSD. Part of the reason I like the Vertex 3 MAX IOPS is the new chipset and excellent quality NAND. Is it worth buying an older chipset and less quality NAND just to save a few dollars when I won't be upgrading SSD's anytime soon!?

There shouldn't be any question about the quality of the NAND.

Regarding upgrading, think about these things.

When you do upgrade in the future, SSDs are likely to cost less and be "faster" than what is available today.

Having an SSD instead of a HDD can be very noticeable. Having a "faster" SSD instead of a "slower" SSD is for the most part only noticeable in benchmarking.

Bigger capacity SSDs are usually faster than smaller capacity SSDs of the same kind.

Running out of room on the C: drive really sucks.

Thus, I would favor a cheaper but larger capacity SSD over a more expensive smaller capacity "newer faster" SSD. For instance, within a few bucks of each other are the OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS 120GB drive, as well as the Intel 320 160GB drive. The Vertex 3 Max IOPS undoubtedly is a faster drive, as it pretty much dominates benchmarks of single SATA SSDs (if by a hair over similar SandForce 2200 drives). However, if you ever get to the point that you actually fill up all 120GB with essential data, the Intel 160GB drive with 120GB worth of data on it would end up being faster overall.

 

[aigomorla]

How about this... Pretend your spankin' new SSD is a normal hard drive. Install Windows 7 as you would on a normal hard drive. Does that make it magically easier? :whiste:

:biggrin:

no... my normal hard drive is larger then the SSD..
It wont fit...

😵 :whiste:

 

[Dward]

Thanks Zap. I have done a lot of reading and I am leaning towards the Intel 320 160GB SSD!