It's the economy stupid!

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LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: bozack
All I can say is it must be nice to have as much free time as BOBDN and HJD1 seem to have to be drafting up all of this lengthy propoganda.

Well I suppose you could look at it that way and you do. I prefer to think of it as Pro Bono edification of the obviously confused. If we can be of any assistance to you we, I am sure I can speak here for BOBDN, we'll try hard to ease your transition to the moderatly informed.
;)
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Quote

Your conclusion is? Bush comes into office, DOW goes bust.[/quote]

No, my conclusion is, it would have happened even if Gore had been elected. So the Bush bashing is unwarranted. As much of a mumbling doofus as he is, he isn't to blame for the state of the economy.[/quote]


BoberFett, Lets agree, and I think you do agree, that the state of the economy is not all that good. What is Mr. Bush et. al. doing about it and does it make sense considering the consensus of opinion propounded by the experts in the field. Who should we listen too in this? Where would you invest givin the situation should you wish to invest your 401K or other ERISSA assets?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: SuperTool
No suprizes here. Republicans cannot run this country without getting us into huge debts.


What programs or tax cuts do you support reducing or eliminating to bring us back from the edge? Where should incentives be focused since the governments obligation is to keep our economy on tract.

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I don't agree with the dollar figure extimate some in the congress have bantied about regarding the cost of this way. (Iraq)

Manpower; All the soldiers sailors etc. would be paid wether or not. Only the reservists call up would generate additional cost.
As well as non taxed combat pay. But that is not too much.

Equipment; We had them before it started and the losses of assets happen in peace scenerios too. Fuel etc. is used in training all the time. So no big incremental cost there.

Ordinance; Now here is where we spend big bucks. But is it truely incremantal to the DOD budget. Considering that they obsoleted all the dumb stuff or most of it. And they can't keep those Ph.D. bombs on the shelf too long for fear they become subject to techno changes and or the elements.

Why is it gonna cost the taxpayer 70-230 billion more than the DOD budget?
 

jahawkin

Golden Member
Aug 24, 2000
1,355
0
0
Just for the record: link
The twenty years of budgets prepared by Republican presidents increased the national debt by $3.8 trillion. The average yearly deficit under Republican budgets was $190 billion.
The twenty years of budgets prepared by Democratic presidents increased the national debt by $719.5 billion. The average yearly deficit under Democratic budgets was $36 billion.

Under the 20 years of Republican administrations the number of non-defense government employees rose by 310,000.
Under the 20 years of Democratic administrations, the number of non-defense government employees rose by 59,000.
Of the 369,000 employees added between 1962 and 2001, 84% were added under Republican administrations and 16% were added under Democratic administrations.

The economy grew in 19 of the 20 years in which Democratic Presidents submitted a budget and in 16 of the 20 years in which Republican Presidents submitted a budget.
For the twenty years for which Republican presidents submitted budgets, the average rate of GDP growth was 2.94%.
For the twenty years in which Democratic presidents submitted budgets, the average rate of GDP growth was 3.92%.

For the twenty years in which Republican Presidents submitted a budget, the unemployment rate averaged 6.75%.
For the twenty years in which Democratic Presidents submitted a budget, the unemployment rate averaged 5.1%.

For the twenty years in which Republican presidents submitted a budget, the inflation rate averaged 4.96%.
For the twenty years in which Democratic presidents submitted a budget, the inflation rate averaged 4.26%.

For the twenty years of Republican submitted budgets the average percentage growth of total Federal spending was 7.57%
For the twenty years of Democratic submitted budgets the average percentage growth of total Federal spending was 6.96%.

For the twenty years of Republican submitted budgets the average growth rate of Federal non-defense spending was 10.08%.
For the twenty years of Democratic submitted budgets the average growth rate of Federal non-defense spending was 8.34%.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: HJD1
Quote

Your conclusion is? Bush comes into office, DOW goes bust.

No, my conclusion is, it would have happened even if Gore had been elected. So the Bush bashing is unwarranted. As much of a mumbling doofus as he is, he isn't to blame for the state of the economy.[/quote]


BoberFett, Lets agree, and I think you do agree, that the state of the economy is not all that good. What is Mr. Bush et. al. doing about it and does it make sense considering the consensus of opinion propounded by the experts in the field. Who should we listen too in this? Where would you invest givin the situation should you wish to invest your 401K or other ERISSA assets?[/quote]

The economy is down, but I'd hardly say it's not good. People are only comparing the current state of the economy with the past decade of incredible economic boom. Even with the rising unemployment rate and slowing sales, we're still very healthy historically speaking.

I'm more of a believer in laissez faire, so I don't think Bush should be doing anything about it. When government starts meddling, they just make things worse.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: jahawkin
Just for the record: link
The twenty years of budgets prepared by Republican presidents increased the national debt by $3.8 trillion. The average yearly deficit under Republican budgets was $190 billion.
The twenty years of budgets prepared by Democratic presidents increased the national debt by $719.5 billion. The average yearly deficit under Democratic budgets was $36 billion.

Under the 20 years of Republican administrations the number of non-defense government employees rose by 310,000.
Under the 20 years of Democratic administrations, the number of non-defense government employees rose by 59,000.
Of the 369,000 employees added between 1962 and 2001, 84% were added under Republican administrations and 16% were added under Democratic administrations.

The economy grew in 19 of the 20 years in which Democratic Presidents submitted a budget and in 16 of the 20 years in which Republican Presidents submitted a budget.
For the twenty years for which Republican presidents submitted budgets, the average rate of GDP growth was 2.94%.
For the twenty years in which Democratic presidents submitted budgets, the average rate of GDP growth was 3.92%.

For the twenty years in which Republican Presidents submitted a budget, the unemployment rate averaged 6.75%.
For the twenty years in which Democratic Presidents submitted a budget, the unemployment rate averaged 5.1%.

For the twenty years in which Republican presidents submitted a budget, the inflation rate averaged 4.96%.
For the twenty years in which Democratic presidents submitted a budget, the inflation rate averaged 4.26%.

For the twenty years of Republican submitted budgets the average percentage growth of total Federal spending was 7.57%
For the twenty years of Democratic submitted budgets the average percentage growth of total Federal spending was 6.96%.

For the twenty years of Republican submitted budgets the average growth rate of Federal non-defense spending was 10.08%.
For the twenty years of Democratic submitted budgets the average growth rate of Federal non-defense spending was 8.34%.

Thanks, jahawkin.
Looks like an easy conclusion regarding fiscal responsibility and reducing the size of government between Democrat and Republican administrations.
Here's a letter form some Democrats and Republicans that should also interest everyone, except those who refuse to recognize the truth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No New Tax Cuts
By BOB KERREY, SAM NUNN, PETER G. PETERSON, ROBERT E. RUBIN, WARREN B. RUDMAN and PAUL A. VOLCKER


With a war in Iraq and looming postwar costs, growing pressures for a prescription drug benefit, increased expenses for domestic security and a ballooning budget deficit, Congress must exercise restraint on both revenues and spending to prevent fiscal policy from spiraling out of control. The consensus in favor of long-term budget balance must be re-established. This issue is now directly before Congress as it debates the federal budget.

The fiscal outlook is much worse than official projections indicate. These projections assume that the tax cuts enacted in 2001 will expire at the end of 2010. They also assume that discretionary spending, the part of the budget that pays for national defense, domestic security, education and transportation, will shrink continuously as a share of the economy. Neither of these assumptions is realistic.

Moreover, the official projections do not include the costs of war and reconstruction in Iraq. And they ignore the inevitable need to reform the alternative minimum tax, which is not indexed for inflation and will apply to some 40 million households within 10 years ? up from two million today.


Under more realistic assumptions, the deficit projections are cause for alarm. A recent study by Goldman Sachs includes this forecast: if the president's proposed new tax cuts are enacted, a Medicare prescription drug benefit is approved, the A.M.T. is adjusted and appropriations grow modestly, the deficits over the next 10 years will total $4.2 trillion ? even if the Social Security surplus is included. If it is not included, the deficit would be $6.7 trillion. Under these circumstances, the ratio of publicly held debt to gross domestic product climbs within 10 years to nearly 50 percent, from 33 percent just two years ago.

And all of this happens before the fiscal going gets tough. Looming at the end of the decade is a demographic transformation that threatens to swamp the budget and the economy with unfunded benefit promises, like Social Security and Medicare, of roughly $25 trillion in present value. Our children and grandchildren already face unthinkable payroll tax burdens that could go as high as 33 percent to pay for these promised benefits. It is neither fiscally nor morally responsible to give ourselves tax cuts and leave future generations with an even higher tax burden.

And yet tax cuts are the primary focus of this year's budget debate. To speed enactment of tax cuts, Congress is planning to use a special fast-track procedure called "reconciliation" in the budget resolution. While determining the size of the tax cut to be given fast-track protection in the budget is sometimes dismissed as a procedural matter, it is not: whatever its size, a tax cut that receives this protection is almost certain to be enacted in the later tax legislation. Members of Congress should not therefore approach the budget decision with the idea that a tax cut given such status now can be easily scaled back later.

The president has proposed a cut of $726 billion, which the House has already approved. The Senate has reduced the cut to $350 billion.

Given the rapidly deteriorating long-term fiscal outlook, neither proposal is fiscally responsible. It is illogical to begin the journey back toward balanced budgets by enacting a tax cut that will only make the long-term outlook worse. Furthermore, the proposed tax cuts are not useful for short-term fiscal stimulus, since only a small portion would take effect this year. Nor would they spur long-term economic growth. In fact, tax cuts financed by perpetual deficits will eventually slow the economy.

The tax cuts now before Congress do not pay for themselves. No plausible array of matching spending cuts or offsetting revenue increases has been, or will be, proposed to close the gap resulting from a large new tax cut.

We believe that there should be no new tax cuts beyond those that are likely to provide immediate fiscal stimulus, and that avoid growing revenue loss over time. If, however, Congress decides it must approve a tax cut, it should pass the Senate's. While a $350 billion tax cut does not fit our definition of fiscal responsibility, it comes closer than a tax cut of $726 billion. Moreover, Congress should re-establish the pay-as-you-go rule in which tax cuts and entitlement expansions must be offset. The discipline of this rule greatly contributed to the elimination of budget deficits in the 1990's and is clearly needed again.

Congress cannot simply conclude that deficits don't matter. Over the long term, deficits matter a great deal. They lower future economic growth by reducing the level of national savings that can be devoted to productive investments. They raise interest rates higher than they would be otherwise. They raise interest payments on the national debt. They reduce the fiscal flexibility to deal with unexpected developments. If we forget these economic consequences, we risk creating an insupportable tax burden for the next generation.


Bob Kerrey, Sam Nunn and Warren B. Rudman are former senators. Peter G. Peterson and Robert E. Rubin are former cabinet secretaries. Paul A. Volcker is former chairman of the Federal Reserve. All are members of the Concord Coalition, a group that focuses on federal budget policy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some very influential, highly regarded Americans.

Among one of the many excellent points this letter highlights is the Social Security surplus which is being included in the budget to lessen the deficit. The deficit which reappeared with Bush and his version of voodoo economics.

When will people wake up and realize what's happening here?


 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: HJD1
Quote

Your conclusion is? Bush comes into office, DOW goes bust.

No, my conclusion is, it would have happened even if Gore had been elected. So the Bush bashing is unwarranted. As much of a mumbling doofus as he is, he isn't to blame for the state of the economy.


BoberFett, Lets agree, and I think you do agree, that the state of the economy is not all that good. What is Mr. Bush et. al. doing about it and does it make sense considering the consensus of opinion propounded by the experts in the field. Who should we listen too in this? Where would you invest givin the situation should you wish to invest your 401K or other ERISSA assets?[/quote]

The economy is down, but I'd hardly say it's not good. People are only comparing the current state of the economy with the past decade of incredible economic boom. Even with the rising unemployment rate and slowing sales, we're still very healthy historically speaking.

I'm more of a believer in laissez faire, so I don't think Bush should be doing anything about it. When government starts meddling, they just make things worse.[/quote]

But Bush IS meddling. He has taken $1.5 trillion out of the federal treasury and put it in the hands of people who are quite obviously NOT reinvesting a penny of it. Now he wants to "meddle" further by taking another $726 billion out of the treasury and giving it to the same people under the guise of economic stimulus. And during a war which Bush refuses to give an estimate of the cost of. I think we can safely say this is not an economic stimulus package.

Please read the letter I posted above. There are some startling figures on the amount of the deficit under Bush's "economic stimulus" package as well as some more startling figures when the estimated costs of Iraq are included.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee. Laissez faire economics aside, Bush's policies are destroying our economy.

EDIT - Your conclusion about Gore being elected is noted but any conclusion you make regarding the effect of Gore's policies is simply fantasy.
Bush is in the White House. Let's stay focused on the economic reality of what Bush has done. Not some fantasy based on what if.

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Quote


BoberFett, Lets agree, and I think you do agree, that the state of the economy is not all that good. What is Mr. Bush et. al. doing about it and does it make sense considering the consensus of opinion propounded by the experts in the field. Who should we listen too in this? Where would you invest givin the situation should you wish to invest your 401K or other ERISSA assets?[/quote]

The economy is down, but I'd hardly say it's not good. People are only comparing the current state of the economy with the past decade of incredible economic boom. Even with the rising unemployment rate and slowing sales, we're still very healthy historically speaking.

I'm more of a believer in laissez faire, so I don't think Bush should be doing anything about it. When government starts meddling, they just make things worse.[/quote]


Ok. Then your positional statements are reflective of your belief and I can't quarrel with them. You are suggesting that but for the economic boom we would be in a typical economic status. But, the boom did occur and growth must be measured from some place. If the boom was unreal - a flood of the market with non obsolete gizmos for example or fake financials - then we'd have to eliminate it from the picture. Sustained growth from a "boom" would be very hard indeed.
I put the Laissez faire to the broader international arena. I'd advise Bush to tariff the begeebers out of imports and make Americans buy American and get our Mfg. back home and put Americans to work.
We want government to meddle when we have so many out of work and the SS medicare issue etc. don't you think?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Quote
Some very influential, highly regarded Americans.

Among one of the many excellent points this letter highlights is the Social Security surplus which is being included in the budget to lessen the deficit. The deficit which reappeared with Bush and his version of voodoo economics.

When will people wake up and realize what's happening here?[/quote]




Here is a link to CBO's idea about surplus trust funds and stuff

I like my new found talent of posting links.
The tax cut proposed of 7 hundred odd billion focused in other areas may bring about employment and growth and be revenue neutral but only if it is targeted better. They just need to adjust the sights or use the smart parts off them bombs and missles and let them go dumb.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Originally posted by: BOBDN Hey bozack, you're here too.

And I might add it doesn't take some of us as long as it would take you.

P.S. I post links to economic data to back up my posts. You post propaganda.

Hey BOBDN,

real classy response, sure I am also here but I am not the one posting text equivalent to Stephen King's "The Stand" in lengh. Also I really like that little jab you took at either my typing aptitude or my mental capacity...really shows what kind of a "klassy" guy you are...oh but I forgot your drove big rigs for a living so I should let that slide, what do they require for that nowadays? a GED?...do yourself a favor, get an education with a background in political science, maybe also a minor in economics and then come back here and spew the same garbage you are now...I did my four years and then worked another two for a government agency, got tired of morons like youself spouting back liberally slanted garbage that you cut and paste off of the net or hear on the network news. Maybe if having a "discussion" would prove to be worth while I would bother putting effort into an actual response, but it is painfully obvious that you have already forumulated your "opinons" and are standing by them, almost like Custer's last stand...I would have a better time having a discussion with this empty can of Mountain dew at my desk.

Have fun arguing this rather pointless and drawn out topic...whatever floats your boat I guess...
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Originally posted by: HJD1
Well I suppose you could look at it that way and you do. I prefer to think of it as Pro Bono edification of the obviously confused. If we can be of any assistance to you we, I am sure I can speak here for BOBDN, we'll try hard to ease your transition to the moderatly informed.
;)

HJD1 I will go a little easier on you than I did on Bobo as at least you showed a little tact with your response...I have a hard time with any "pro bono" "work", and from reading through most of your's and Bob-o's post I would most likely classify that as "work" (although yours actually show some intellect as you are doing more typing than the cutting and pasting that bob-o is so fond of...guess he has never heard of the term "broken record").

I was just astounded by the amount of "free time" some of you all seem to have throughout the day, man it is astonishing.

Oh well I will let you and bob-o get back to spewing the rehtoric...I thought I was done with it when I finished my degree at one of the most liberal schools in the US but I guess I was wrong.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: BOBDN Hey bozack, you're here too.

And I might add it doesn't take some of us as long as it would take you.

P.S. I post links to economic data to back up my posts. You post propaganda.

Hey BOBDN,

real classy response, sure I am also here but I am not the one posting text equivalent to Stephen King's "The Stand" in lengh. Also I really like that little jab you took at either my typing aptitude or my mental capacity...really shows what kind of a "klassy" guy you are...oh but I forgot your drove big rigs for a living so I should let that slide, what do they require for that nowadays? a GED?...do yourself a favor, get an education with a background in political science, maybe also a minor in economics and then come back here and spew the same garbage you are now...I did my four years and then worked another two for a government agency, got tired of morons like youself spouting back liberally slanted garbage that you cut and paste off of the net or hear on the network news. Maybe if having a "discussion" would prove to be worth while I would bother putting effort into an actual response, but it is painfully obvious that you have already forumulated your "opinons" and are standing by them, almost like Custer's last stand...I would have a better time having a discussion with this empty can of Mountain dew at my desk.

Have fun arguing this rather pointless and drawn out topic...whatever floats your boat I guess...

I'm classy (by the way, that would be classy with a 'c' not klassy) and you're an elitist. Do you actually think because I drove trucks for a living I didn't have time to get an education?

I graduated 25th in my class from high school and won a full scholarship to college based on scholastic achievement. I drove trucks because I could earn a lot of money quickly and didn't have to put up with self important a$$holes like you. I valued my independence and didn't have to sell out to earn a living. No office politics. No bozacks.

As for your characterization of my posts as garbage. You still haven't posted one damn piece of information to backup your ideas. You're only ability so far has been to criticize the people who do have facts to back up their position.
So, you are still just full of $h!T, aren't you?

P.S. You did your 4 years and worked for two in a government agency? As what? The custodian? If you spill that Mountain Dew on your desk you can clean it up like a pro. Go clean up your Mountain Dew spill. Do something you have experience doing. And be careful your boss doesn't catch you with refreshments at your desk. Ah, life in the fast lane.:D
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: HJD1
Well I suppose you could look at it that way and you do. I prefer to think of it as Pro Bono edification of the obviously confused. If we can be of any assistance to you we, I am sure I can speak here for BOBDN, we'll try hard to ease your transition to the moderatly informed.
;)

HJD1 I will go a little easier on you than I did on Bobo as at least you showed a little tact with your response...I have a hard time with any "pro bono" "work", and from reading through most of your's and Bob-o's post I would most likely classify that as "work" (although yours actually show some intellect as you are doing more typing than the cutting and pasting that bob-o is so fond of...guess he has never heard of the term "broken record").

I was just astounded by the amount of "free time" some of you all seem to have throughout the day, man it is astonishing.

Oh well I will let you and bob-o get back to spewing the rehtoric...I thought I was done with it when I finished my degree at one of the most liberal schools in the US but I guess I was wrong.


Well... I tried to respond with a funny. I thought a wink face was appropriate. I value all postings that add to my understanding of what people think about this and that.
The "Free Time" I "enjoy" is the result of my situation and it no doubt would be better spent in the persuit of Golf or other endevors that I use to partake in but suffice it to say I am not "On the Clock" while I'm here. Actually, I happened upon this forum by trying to get some technical answers to a system I was buying but, no one responded and I wondered why so I ventured about and "met" the forum members to see If I could in time perhaps see them in another forum site and If I had a query computer related I may get an answer or two. Then I got hooked by the banter and polar opinions. I never took drugs but it must be the same as this.
You'll find that I tend to probe and challenge an issue to see where its strength or weaknesses are. The truth... the real truth in all this budget mumbo jumbo is so obscure that it begs for clarity... at least to me.

Edit: By the way if you re read my post you may notice the clever way it is phrased. One can argue that I am the confused and We'll help you too get informed. I say clever because I meant to have an escape clause like our washington friends have.
:)
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: BOBDN
As for your characterization of my posts as garbage. You still haven't posted one damn piece of information to backup your ideas. You're only ability so far has been to criticize the people who do have facts to back up their position. So, you are still just full of $h!T, aren't you?

To be fair, when I stopped just being a smartass and posted some facts for you to chew on, you said it was "unsubstantiated drivel". Who's full of sh!t?

You must be used to people rolling over and agreeing with you. I don't do that.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Wow Bob-o should I be impressed that I ticked you off, or sad that you take this so seriously, I am at a loss?.

Let me start by saying that I am really disappointed in the public school system, obviously if you could not discern that my use of the ?k? in ?klassy? was both intentional and facetious then I must say I am saddened by your lack of basic reading comprehension or sarcastic interpretation.

I never implied that you did not have time to get an education, just that by the wording and the substance of your posts it is painfully obvious that you are nothing but a puppet of the liberal media and have no real ?clue? about what you are talking about, nor of the actual workings of government, instead you place blame solely on one regime and focus you ignorance on one individual?. dance puppet dance

Self-important ace hole?another good one ?I don?t know if I should take that as a compliment or an insult. Let me get this straight?you passed up a college scholarship so you could make big bucks quickly as a big rig driver yet you also had to constantly work two other jobs as well, that sounds like a career move with direction if I have ever seen one.

I am sorry that you have to make up for your intellectual shortcomings by posting on this off topic forum regurgitating rhetoric that you cut and pasted off of a few liberal net sites and arguing with mostly people in their late teens/early 20s. I am truly saddened by people like you that have come to the conclusion they have not done much in life and now feel cheated by the system, thus they place blame on some scapegoat, in your case the Republican regime and President Bush.

You constantly mention these ?facts? that you are posting, but 99% of them are coming from biased sources, really why would anyone waste their breath/fingers actually trying to have a meaningful discussion with you?

With re. My government work, well if you really must know I worked for the space agency?s administrative headquarters on 300e St. in DC as a Technical advisor to the administrators department and a service coordination manager, I lived a little over two years ?in the beltway? and dealt with this garbage every day, after completing a four year degree in Political science from one of the most liberal schools in New England and was focused on a career in government service? so I guess you could say that is right about as close to being a janitor as one can get?. Real intelligent response bob-o?truth is I got so tired of dealing with self righteous- liberal a-holes like yourself between the babies in college that were too stupid to know any better and the underpaid un-motivated civil servants that liked to whine and moan (sound familiar bob) that I decided to move to the private sector?.But Bob do me a favor and just keep letting your true colors come out for everyone to see, by the way should we tell Moonie to expect to see you at the Democratic National convention, all of you liberal loons are usually there early right??
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: BOBDN
As for your characterization of my posts as garbage. You still haven't posted one damn piece of information to backup your ideas. You're only ability so far has been to criticize the people who do have facts to back up their position. So, you are still just full of $h!T, aren't you?

To be fair, when I stopped just being a smartass and posted some facts for you to chew on, you said it was "unsubstantiated drivel". Who's full of sh!t?

You must be used to people rolling over and agreeing with you. I don't do that.

You reposted the same link I posted. Trying to coopt my info?

Why not take the time to investigate for yourself?
Find some info on your own.


 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: bozack
Wow Bob-o should I be impressed that I ticked you off, or sad that you take this so seriously, I am at a loss?.

Let me start by saying that I am really disappointed in the public school system, obviously if you could not discern that my use of the ?k? in ?klassy? was both intentional and facetious then I must say I am saddened by your lack of basic reading comprehension or sarcastic interpretation.

I never implied that you did not have time to get an education, just that by the wording and the substance of your posts it is painfully obvious that you are nothing but a puppet of the liberal media and have no real ?clue? about what you are talking about, nor of the actual workings of government, instead you place blame solely on one regime and focus you ignorance on one individual?. dance puppet dance

Self-important ace hole?another good one ?I don?t know if I should take that as a compliment or an insult. Let me get this straight?you passed up a college scholarship so you could make big bucks quickly as a big rig driver yet you also had to constantly work two other jobs as well, that sounds like a career move with direction if I have ever seen one.

I am sorry that you have to make up for your intellectual shortcomings by posting on this off topic forum regurgitating rhetoric that you cut and pasted off of a few liberal net sites and arguing with mostly people in their late teens/early 20s. I am truly saddened by people like you that have come to the conclusion they have not done much in life and now feel cheated by the system, thus they place blame on some scapegoat, in your case the Republican regime and President Bush.

You constantly mention these ?facts? that you are posting, but 99% of them are coming from biased sources, really why would anyone waste their breath/fingers actually trying to have a meaningful discussion with you?

With re. My government work, well if you really must know I worked for the space agency?s administrative headquarters on 300e St. in DC as a Technical advisor to the administrators department and a service coordination manager, I lived a little over two years ?in the beltway? and dealt with this garbage every day, after completing a four year degree in Political science from one of the most liberal schools in New England and was focused on a career in government service? so I guess you could say that is right about as close to being a janitor as one can get?. Real intelligent response bob-o?truth is I got so tired of dealing with self righteous- liberal a-holes like yourself between the babies in college that were too stupid to know any better and the underpaid un-motivated civil servants that liked to whine and moan (sound familiar bob) that I decided to move to the private sector?.But Bob do me a favor and just keep letting your true colors come out for everyone to see, by the way should we tell Moonie to expect to see you at the Democratic National convention, all of you liberal loons are usually there early right??

First, why do you assume I attended public school?

Second, if I'm a liberal puppet you're a conservative puppet. What't the difference? Well, check out the posts and see. Seems the nation as a whole does better when the liberal puppets are dancing.

Third, why do you assume I passed up my scholarship?
And what do you have against honest work? The typical conservative hatred of working people. I suppose you're on a real career track. Political science degree to work in the beltway for two whole years and leave in disgust for the private sector. Sounds like you didn't do to well in your career choice.

Fourth, you are making more assumptions not based in fact. And judging from the lack of info you post you haven't learned how to cut and paste. As for the age of the people on this forum, how would you know? Another assumption. And what does the age of the people on the forum matter? Free speech only among those of the same age? What BS.

Fifth, my facts come from biased sources? The US Department of Labor, William C. Dudley, Chief US Economist at Goldman Sachs, Fed Chariman Greenspan, the Congressional Budget Office, Rory Robertson of Australian investment firm Macquarie Equities New York, David Wyss, the chief economist at Standard & Poor's, BOB KERREY, SAM NUNN, PETER G. PETERSON, ROBERT E. RUBIN, WARREN B. RUDMAN and PAUL A. VOLCKER. I suppose you're the unbiased source everyone should listen to.
Oh, and just so there's no question the names above are accurate, I cut and pasted them from my posts below.

And you worked for the space agency. Let's all dig a bigger hole to dump tax dollars into. Did you help blow up any shuttles? Nice job. With the likes of you working "in the beltway" little wonder things are so F***ED up. As for your janitorial duties I'm sure as a "service coordination manager" and a "technical advisor" you had the opportunity to "take out the garbage" for the administrator on more than one occassion. Especially with all the garbage in the space agency. Why did you bother with a political science degree? Little wonder you sound so bitter. A four year degree and you couldn't learn to get along with the people in your chosen field of "government service." I thought you conservative folks were all for reducing the size of government. Odd that you'd choose a career on the government welfare line, oops, I mean payroll. I'm really beginning to get a feel for why you hold people with real jobs in such low regard.

Now you're in the private sector. Welcome to the real world. How does it feel to have a real job? Little wonder you try to insult me for working. I was working at a real job contributing to the economy while you were sitting on your A$$ in Washington on the public dole.

PS I'm still waiting for you to post one fact to refute the reams of economic data I've posted to prove my point, that the Bush administration has done nothing but screw up our economy in the two years and his policies will screw up the economy more if congress allows them to. But I'm not alone there. Read the posts below. Some very main stream and unbiased economists, former Senators, Fed chairman and cabinet secretaries agree with my statement on Bush's economic performance.

Who did you say is in agreement with your economic assessment?
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
12
81
Bob-o this is getting borderline pathetic.

Why did I assume you attended public school, well I guess that was bad on my part, I don?t know too many who went to a private academy that end up driving semi tractor trailers but I guess there is a first for everything.

I won?t even bother to respond to your second comment, if you really think the nation was doing better solely because a ?liberal? was in office (Clinton) then I feel sorry for your ignorance.

With re. your scholarship, judging by your previous responses I am more than certain you would have boasted that you took the scholarship and used it to prove your ?intellectual? superiority. But alas you never mentioned it and I figured someone with an ego such as yours it would have been put up in big bold letters for all to see.

I never said I had anything against honest work, just like the typical liberal you are putting words into other people?s mouths. Actually I wasn?t fully outward with my previous employment I was not a government employee I was a private contractor that worked for a government agency as an IT professional which makes this whole paragraph a moot point:

? And you worked for the space agency. Let's all dig a bigger hole to dump tax dollars into. Did you help blow up any shuttles? Nice job. With the likes of you working "in the beltway" little wonder things are so F***ED up. As for your janitorial duties I'm sure as a "service coordination manager" and a "technical advisor" you had the opportunity to "take out the garbage" for the administrator on more than one occassion. Especially with all the garbage in the space agency. Why did you bother with a political science degree? Little wonder you sound so bitter. A four year degree and you couldn't learn to get along with the people in your chosen field of "government service." I thought you conservative folks were all for reducing the size of government. Odd that you'd choose a career on the government welfare line, oops, I mean payroll. I'm really beginning to get a feel for why you hold people with real jobs in such low regard.

Now you're in the private sector. Welcome to the real world. How does it feel to have a real job? Little wonder you try to insult me for working. I was working at a real job contributing to the economy while you were sitting on your A$$ in Washington on the public dole.


You assumed that I was a government employee?. what do they say about glass houses?? Get a clue bobo and get all of the facts before you make yourself look like more of a moron. I was always working in the ?private sector? so to speak just before my place of employment happened to be a government agency, and contrary to the garbage you spewed I actually got along rather well, so well that they didn?t want me to go, but alas new avenues opened elsewhere and I was not happy with living conditions in DC having seen a passenger jet crash into the Pentagon that was minutes from my Apartment and place of employment.

Not that I have to justify my career choices to you, but I actually decided not to follow a career in public service my senior year in college, when I realized just how many morons who thought just like you that were graduating as well and also headed for careers in politics, instead I followed my passion and went into IT, unlike you who openly admits was only interested in the almightily dollar.

Have fun being bitter bobo, who knows maybe when your retirement runs out and your done arguing on here like a fool you can get a job as an Ice cream truck driver.

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Quote

Have fun being bitter bobo, who knows maybe when your retirement runs out and your done arguing on here like a fool you can get a job as an Ice cream truck driver.[/quote]


And the beat goes on....
This brings to mind that I've not seen an Ice Cream truck pass by in years. Could that indicate a switch in the buying habits or that folks are leary since the Johnson and Johnson Tylenol issue and don't trust anything buy Walmart or CostCo? In fact the last time I saw one it was speeding toward the 69th street ferry in Brooklyn with an angry mob of Emily Dickenson's finest chasing and throwing tufts of dirt at random... who ducked... splat went the mudpie and another increase in the GDP bit the dust.
Reminds me also of the days I spent .... but thats for another day. The ferry is gone as am I and a bridge now stands in its stead. The days when the gangs had to ride the ferry to trounce Staten Island are gone forever ... and this is sad too.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: HJD1
Quote

Have fun being bitter bobo, who knows maybe when your retirement runs out and your done arguing on here like a fool you can get a job as an Ice cream truck driver.


And the beat goes on....
This brings to mind that I've not seen an Ice Cream truck pass by in years. Could that indicate a switch in the buying habits or that folks are leary since the Johnson and Johnson Tylenol issue and don't trust anything buy Walmart or CostCo? In fact the last time I saw one it was speeding toward the 69th street ferry in Brooklyn with an angry mob of Emily Dickenson's finest chasing and throwing tufts of dirt at random... who ducked... splat went the mudpie and another increase in the GDP bit the dust.
Reminds me also of the days I spent .... but thats for another day. The ferry is gone as am I and a bridge now stands in its stead. The days when the gangs had to ride the ferry to trounce Staten Island are gone forever ... and this is sad too.[/quote]

Slow down, you move too fast
Got to make the morning last, just
Kicking down the cobblestones
Looking for fun and

OOPS! That's the 59th Street Bridge Song, not the 69 St Ferry! Sorry HJD. I confused the Queensboro Bridge with the Verazzano.

If you truly have a hankering for a genuine ice cream truck ice cream you simply must visit. I live within a stone's throw of a lovely park where a gentleman in a Good Humor truck plays the first verse of "Pop Goes the Weasel" over and over ad infinitum daily. Once in a while we get a reprieve from "Pop Goes the Weasel" when he changes the tune on his little truck to "Turkey in the Straw." I must use the mud pie gambit when he next passes our home playing his little tune.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Quote

Slow down, you move too fast
Got to make the morning last, just
Kicking down the cobblestones
Looking for fun and

OOPS! That's the 59th Street Bridge Song, not the 69 St Ferry! Sorry HJD. I confused the Queensboro Bridge with the Verazzano.

If you truly have a hankering for a genuine ice cream truck ice cream you simply must visit. I live within a stone's throw of a lovely park where a gentleman in a Good Humor truck plays the first verse of "Pop Goes the Weasel" over and over ad infinitum daily. Once in a while we get a reprieve from "Pop Goes the Weasel" when he changes the tune on his little truck to "Turkey in the Straw." I must use the mud pie gambit when he next passes our home playing his little tune.[/quote]

That does bring back memories. Do you know the area? Which Academy did you attend?
"Pop goes the Weasel" would drive me nuts. Speaking of which I think I'll get on of those cones with the nuts on it up at Von's. "Turkey in the straw" brings to mind the old thinking.... It makes no sense to try and teach a pig to fly... it does nothing but frustrate you and tick off the pig.
Paul and Art must have written a lyric about the economy.... Sounds of Silence but then A bridge over troubled waters could fit.. :D
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: HJD1
Quote

Slow down, you move too fast
Got to make the morning last, just
Kicking down the cobblestones
Looking for fun and

OOPS! That's the 59th Street Bridge Song, not the 69 St Ferry! Sorry HJD. I confused the Queensboro Bridge with the Verazzano.

If you truly have a hankering for a genuine ice cream truck ice cream you simply must visit. I live within a stone's throw of a lovely park where a gentleman in a Good Humor truck plays the first verse of "Pop Goes the Weasel" over and over ad infinitum daily. Once in a while we get a reprieve from "Pop Goes the Weasel" when he changes the tune on his little truck to "Turkey in the Straw." I must use the mud pie gambit when he next passes our home playing his little tune.

That does bring back memories. Do you know the area? Which Academy did you attend?
"Pop goes the Weasel" would drive me nuts. Speaking of which I think I'll get on of those cones with the nuts on it up at Von's. "Turkey in the straw" brings to mind the old thinking.... It makes no sense to try and teach a pig to fly... it does nothing but frustrate you and tick off the pig.
Paul and Art must have written a lyric about the economy.... Sounds of Silence but then A bridge over troubled waters could fit.. :D[/quote]

Who ever said I attended academy? My private education was at a religious institution. Then a specialized public high school. Then on to college.

I know the area well. I drove here for 30 years.

"Pop Goes the Weasel" used to drive me nuts until I installed a pair of weather proof Bose speakers outside.

You're right, I've decided to stop trying to teach the pig to fly. Sounds of Silence - sounds like the Democrats right now. A Bridge Over Troubled Waters is about right on the economy.

I came upon these forums as you did. Looking to discuss technology. I came upon this forum. Seems everyone is talking about the war! I stay away from forums like this but decided to participate with one caveat, I wouldn't argue with anyone. I'd keep my cool. Time to get back to that idea. No use arguing with people who wont admit the truth when it's right under their nose.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
From the Washington Post. Another "cut and paste."

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Congress Delays Final Decision on Size of Tax Cut

By Donna Smith and Andrew Clark
Reuters
Wednesday, April 9, 2003; 3:50 PM


Senate and House leaders said Wednesday they would seek to put off a final decision on the size of new tax cuts sought by President Bush amid swelling budget deficits and uncertainties about the cost of the war in Iraq.

Resistance from moderate Republicans in the Senate to Bush's call for $726 billion in new tax cuts over the next decade has been threatening to derail efforts to complete next year's $2.2 trillion federal budget by the end of this week.

The proposed compromise would allow the House and the Senate to agree on the rest of the government's budget for 2004 but include two different tax cut numbers, one for each chamber, and delay the difficult decision on the final figure.

"There are differences between the House and Senate and in order to get a budget we need to recognize those differences and be able to address them later," said Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican.

The new plan would instruct Senate tax writers to come up with a tax cut of no more than $350 billion -- the most a group of moderate Republicans and Democrats say they will support.

The House, which had sought the full $726 billion tax cut Bush says is needed to boost the U.S. economy, will work to a higher number. The amount was still being discussed, but aides said it could range between $550 billion and $600 billion.

Congress' budget lays out the framework for its tax and spending decisions later in the year. Including the tax cuts in the budget will allow them to pass later by a majority in the 100-member Senate rather than the 60 votes normally required.


Postwar Opportunity


House and Senate tax writers plan to come up with a final tax bill by early summer. Republican leaders hope that, by then, a victory in Iraq will have strengthened Bush's hand in final discussions over the size of the tax cut.

"We've kicked the ball down the road on the tax number,"said John Feehery, a spokesman for House Speaker Dennis Hastert, an Illinois Republican. "This gives us the widest range of options to get the biggest tax cut."

Democrats said they feared the move was a ploy to eventually force the bigger House tax cut through the Senate. But key Republican moderates, including Maine Sen. Olympia Snowe and Ohio Sen. George Voinovich, insisted they would continue to oppose any tax cut greater than $350 billion.

"A higher number is not going to fly in the Senate," Voinovich said. "I think that you can guarantee that the votes won't be there for it."

Bush proposed to speed up planned income tax cuts and eliminate taxes on corporate dividends. Tax writers have said a $550 billion package would be the minimum needed to cut income taxes and still allow significant dividend tax cuts.

Republicans argue Bush's plan will boost stock prices, create jobs and generate more revenues for the U.S. Treasury.

Democrats argue it was Bush's last round of tax cuts in 2001 that started the recent steep slide in the U.S. fiscal position and say the new cuts will make a bad situation worse.

Complicating the debate is the need to raise the federal debt ceiling for the second time since Bush signed a previous $1.35 trillion tax cut into law in 2001. The government's credit limit was last raised in June 2002 to $6.4 trillion but the U.S. Treasury says it will need another increase soon.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steep slide in US fiscal position. Debt limit raised to $6.4 TRILLION. Need to raise the debt ceiling a second time. Hmmm.