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it's stuff like this that makes me think John Petrucci is the most complete guitarist

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nkgreen said:
aww...someone's butthurt. nowhere did i imply that he was conceited, nor would it would it make a difference if he donated his money to starving aids infested ethiopian kids. his music still sucks. seriously, it sounds like he randomly put notes in a midi generator as fast as he could. i don't shit on him because he's a good guitar player, i shit on him because he's not a good musician.

and there is a reason people like SRV are mainstream: because they're fucking good.
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John Petrucci is an amazing musician, on a musical level. Does he pander to the "please shred like God" crowd? Of course. But to discredit him as a musician considering everything he has done is just naive. Do you play guitar? Do you know any theory? Any experience playing shows or recording?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QZbMC3Z1rw

go to about 2:20 or so... he doesn't play fast.. that's all melody. listen to the details. he's very articulate in his playing.
 
A Casual Fitz said:
Fuck you. You make it sound like John Petrucci is conceited and implies his abilities make him better than the others you've described. He's a humble dude doing what he loves and is actually good at it. And what the fuck are you talking about him "not 'knowing' a melody." A melody is a series of musical notes which is perceived as a single entity. There's no reason to shit on a respected guitar player just because you have different (and might I add severely mainstream) taste.
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I think the issue people are taking with Petrucci, is the statement in the OP that he's a very complete guitarist. I doubt there's anyone here that would argue with his skill; he's obviously talented as shit. The issue is with his musicality, and taste. He over plays, and that bores me after short while. It's like those Korean kids that type an insane amount of shit on a computer keyboard. It's impressive as hell, but your left thinking "now what?". It just doesn't have lasting appeal.
 
lxskllr said:
I think the issue people are taking with Petrucci, is the statement in the OP that he's a very complete guitarist. I doubt there's anyone here that would argue with his skill; he's obviously talented as shit. The issue is with his musicality, and taste. He over plays, and that bores me after short while. It's like those Korean kids that type an insane amount of shit on a computer keyboard. It's impressive as hell, but your left thinking "now what?". It just doesn't have lasting appeal.
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I think a lot of it is Petrucci pandering to his crowd. A huge majority of his fans masturbate to his shredding skills, so he's often trying to appease his crowd and play to his fan base. Often hidden in the shadows of dream theator songs are some amazing chord progressions, etc.

I've seen him play in different contexts and he has the musical ability. Especially if it's just him. Check out "An evening with Jordan Rudess and John Petrucci". And especially now that he's getting older, he seems to show more restraint when he plays. For instance.. go watch teh various "lines in the sand" solos and you can see how he's evolved.

I suspect as he gets older, and becomes an "elder" guitar player, much like Gilmour, clapton, etc. are now, that added experience will really help his technical chops shine.
 
nkgreen said:
lolz. srv, clapton, knopfler, hendrix, atkins, bb, may, and gilmour are complete guitarists, not this fingertapping arpeggio i-wouldn't-know-a-melody-if-it-butfucked-me bullshit.
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And none of them would be much more than a lead guitarist if it weren't for their voices and song writing ability. I still maintain that good rock music needs lyrics...and good lyrics at that, not this pop shit that people turn out these days with auto tune to make them sound on key.
 
JulesMaximus said:
And none of them would be much more than a lead guitarist if it weren't for their voices and song writing ability. I still maintain that good rock music needs lyrics...and good lyrics at that, not this pop shit that people turn out these days with auto tune to make them sound on key.
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Absolutely. In my OP, I said "guitarist" not songwriter, musician, producer. I was talking about guitar skill. Ability to play in different contexts. Liquid tension covers a lot of ground.

I'd think Petrucci would be more successful jamming with Eric Clapton in his band than Clapton jamming with Dream Theater.

Considering my OP, I would never argue that Petrucci is a better songwriter than Clapton. Not at all. Petrucci stuff more difficult to play? Maybe. but that's not songwriting.
 
As a guitar player, this sort of thing does nothing for me. I can't imagine anyone who does not play an instrument or understand music would sit back and appreciate that sort of "music" either. It's honestly just playing really fast. Granted, he's doing amazing things from a technical and music theory perspective, but the end result to most is just noise.

The better I get at guitar, the more I appreciate musicians who exercise restraint. Just because you can jump all around the fretboard doing 32nd notes at 300 BMP does not mean you have to. Simple stuff like Neil Young's "one note solos" and Pete Townshend's power chords on Baba O'Riley pack a ton more emotion than these virtuosos blistering out multi-key, complex solos at 500 MPH.
 
dwell said:
As a guitar player, this sort of thing does nothing for me. I can't imagine anyone who does not play an instrument or understand music would sit back and appreciate that sort of "music" either. It's honestly just playing really fast. Granted, he's doing amazing things from a technical and music theory perspective, but the end result to most is just noise.

The better I get at guitar, the more I appreciate musicians who exercise restraint. Just because you can jump all around the fretboard doing 32nd notes at 300 BMP does not mean you have to. Simple stuff like Neil Young's "one note solos" and Pete Townshend's power chords on Baba O'Riley pack a ton more emotion than these virtuosos blistering out multi-key, complex solos at 500 MPH.
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If you watch all the LTE vids, it's hardly just playing 'fast'. LTE was an experiement where they camped out in a studio for two weeks, and assembled a bunch of musical passages from scratch, trying to keep it all "liquid" and unending. There are many beautiful passages, some slow, some fast, with amazing melodic invention. Are there some balls to the wall passages of pure shred? yes. but that's hardly all there is.

LTE is very musical.
 
TechBoyJK said:
John Petrucci is an amazing musician, on a musical level. Does he pander to the "please shred like God" crowd? Of course. But to discredit him as a musician considering everything he has done is just naive. Do you play guitar? Do you know any theory? Any experience playing shows or recording?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QZbMC3Z1rw

go to about 2:20 or so... he doesn't play fast.. that's all melody. listen to the details. he's very articulate in his playing.
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yes, i've been involved in music for about 13 years. yes, i dabble in guitar and yes i know theory. senior year of high school i could rattle off major and minor scales and modes like nobody's business.

i can't watch the video because i'm at my parents and they have satellite internet with a cap, but everything i've heard from him i felt was soulless and cold.

john mayer did the pandering to a specific crowd, and it tarnished his reputation guitarist until he started doing his blues stuff, regardless if his skills were just as good.

and jules is right about lyrics, when it comes to rock.
 
Well I look at it like this:

I see it as a venn diagram with two parts: The Technical side and the Emotional side

Good music needs both parts. You can't just be a virtuoso. Music is about expression and the exchange of energy, and for that you need some heart.

Petrucci is waaaaay on the left side.

For me, there's no better band than radiohead that exemplifies this balance.
 
Sloper said:
Well I look at it like this:

I see it as a venn diagram with two parts: The Technical side and the Emotional side

Good music needs both parts. You can't just be a virtuoso. Music is about expression and the exchange of energy, and for that you need some heart.

Petrucci is waaaaay on the left side.

For me, there's no better band than radiohead that exemplifies this balance.
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I love radio head. Have you heard of Chroma Key? It is Kevin Moore's primary project. Kevin was the original piano player from Dream Theater who left the band for the same reasons many people dont like it.. too technical, not musical enough. Kevin wanted to keep it simple so he quit. ChromaKey is like the exact opposite of dream theater. Kevin doesn't show off his piano skills at all.
 
TechBoyJK said:
I love radio head. Have you heard of Chroma Key? It is Kevin Moore's primary project. Kevin was the original piano player from Dream Theater who left the band for the same reasons many people dont like it.. too technical, not musical enough. Kevin wanted to keep it simple so he quit. ChromaKey is like the exact opposite of dream theater. Kevin doesn't show off his piano skills at all.
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Cool, man. I haven't heard of them yet so I'll check them out. Isn't DT still playing?
 
yes.. they are.. Kevin quite the band about 15 years ago and has been doing his own thing ever since. I'd also recommend OSI.
 
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