It's Eli time

[Passions]

Originally posted by: Balt

Originally posted by: PinwiZ

Originally posted by: TheAudit

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt


But if the team sucks then there is no point in not putting in Manning. .

Sure there is. He's going to get beat up, lose his confidence, and make everyone instantly question whether or not he's as good as they thought he'd be.

He shouldn't even step foot on the field this year.

Well, both he and daddy snubbed the Chargers because they wanted him to go to the Giants, so I don't have that much sympathy for him.

He made his bed, now he can lie in it.

I love how the Chargers are kicking so much ass right now. Giants have no OL. Pretty boy Manning is about to get PWZONED!!!!! DOWN WITH ELI!!!

 

[TheNinja]

It appears the Giants are giving up on the season. No way will Manning make better reads and throw better than Warner. Sure he's a little more mobile but that's it. I guess a change had to be made there but I don't think Warner was the problem. I'd like to know if Coughlin has given up or honestly thinks Eli gives him a better chance to win this year.

Also, Manning will not be like Big Ben. Ben takes care of the ball well and has GREAT linemen on both sides of the ball. The Steelers have given up something insane like 66 yards rushing, in the past 3 games COMBINED!!! Plus they can rush the ball at will. When you have dominating lines you don't have pressure to really win the game. No doubt Ben is good, but I wouldn't consider Giants lines anywhere close to Pits and I wouldn't consider Giants WR as Plax and Hines.

 

[MaxDSP]

Originally posted by: Eli
w00t! Right on!

/stands in spotlight

Wait.. whos this Warner dude?

If it helps, I thought they were talking about you too

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Ilmater

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Please refresh my memory on when the Giants offense was "rocking". They have only scored over 27 points once and are dead last in the NFL in Red Zone touchdowns.

Sure thing:
-They scored 17 points against Philly; more all but two teams this year (including Minnesota WITH Moss, who scored 16 against them)
- They scored 20 points against Washington; more than all but two teams this year (and one of those two was Dallas with 21, and that's such a bitter rivalry, it can cause all kinds of problems)
- They scored 27 points against Cleveland; more than all but Philly and Pittsburgh, and tied with Baltimore - and one of Baltimore's TDs was a last-minute INT returned for a TD
- Through the first three games, Warner threw 0 INTs

Perhaps a better phrase would have been "really clicking," but yes, I call that good.

It's always helpful to look at half the picture, isn't it?

- Against Philly they had 1 real touchdown drive. The second TD was a fluke 70+ yard run against the third stringers in garbage time after the game had been decided.
- 20 pts against Washington, but one TD was a defensive score on a fumble return and the other was a VERY short drive following another turnover. The Giants had no long TD drives and were shut out in the 2nd half. Several red zone failures led to FGs
- Against Cleveland they scored 27, but 5 of Clevelands last 7 opps have scored 24 or more. Again, one good TD drive, one short drive following a turnover in Cleveland territory, one score on a big play and several red zone failures.

You call that "really clicking"? The Giants are +9 in turnovers and have done much of their scoring on a short field. I'll repeat again, DEAD LAST in red zone TD conversions.

 

[Passions]

I hope Eli's face gets smashed in and he breaks his back!

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Passions
I hope Eli's face gets smashed in and he breaks his back!

:Q:brokenheart:

 

[Argo]

Originally posted by: Passions
I hope Eli's face gets smashed in and he breaks his back!

Wow, how classy of you, Brenda.

 

[TheNinja]

Originally posted by: Passions
I hope Eli's face gets smashed in and he breaks his back!

Gerrard Warren is that you?

 

[Shlong]

Falcons Defense with Rod Coleman are a sacking machine... they probably will bring the house & put max pressure on Eli.

 

[helpme]

San Diego......Super Chargers!

Too bad they don't play the Giants this year.

 

[cloude27]

Well I have been waiting for this move all year. I rather him get some playing time this year, cause I think we were going go deep into the playoffs. So better get the time in this year then pull a switch like cincy did this year.

 

[TheAudit]

Originally posted by: Shlong
Falcons Defense with Rod Coleman are a sacking machine... they probably will bring the house & put max pressure on Eli.

Everyone blitzes the Giants. There is no reason not to with that O-line. So then the Giants max protect and the offense folds up.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

NFL rookies are 10-0 as starters. Roethlisberger is 7-0 but that is because his in a VERY good team with the league's best rushing offense - he simply isn't forced into situations where he could make several mistakes, especially when he only throws for 20 passes or so.

Craig Krenzel is 3-0, but this is a fluke, his last "victory" he completed 35% of his passes, threw for only about 100 yards and 2 INTs no TDs and they won on INT and special teams returns, a field goal and a defensive safety. (LOL, he's winning just like he did throughout his career at OSU)

It is a farce though, unless Manning is another fluke, he isn't going to save the team. Guys like Marino and Roethlisberger inherited good teams, everyone else struggles hard on their first year, heck just look at his brother, Peyton had a terrible first year but he's now on pace to crush Marino's untouchable records.

Eli is not the answer, the Bengals had it right sticking with Kitna last year and starting Palmer this year. Even when the Bengals started out looking really bad Marvin Lewis remained firm and has kept Plamer as the starter, they're now 4-5 under the 2nd year "rookie" after fans were calling for Kitna. You often have to take a losing season under a new rookie QB before you can start to expect big things. IMHO the right thing to do would be to leave Warner in for the rest of the year even it means a losing season, THEN you start Eli with his OWN season to direct instead of taking over for someone else's troops.

Roethlisberger was NEVER going to start unless the unfortunate injurry to Maddox occured, I was expecting another 6-10 type season for the Steeler this year with Roethlisberger learning the ropes. Even after this season I wouldn't have expected Roethlisberger to be so successful. And technically he isn't even THAT successful this season, his numbers aren't dominating, they are efficient. Perfect for a team that has everything else going for them. What would be scarey is if Pitt actually had a QB that was a dominant force (such as Farve or Culpepper or Manning) Instead they've got a guy like Brady who does enough to lead his team to wins, makes those occasional 3rd and 8s to keep scoring drives alive.

But who really knows, if the Giants take a page from the Steelers and focus on making sure the seasoned players can make some big plays and take the preasure off of Eli, then it could very well end up working out. However if they all of the sudden start to do that with Eli it will raise the question as to why they didn't do it with Warner, I honostly don't think it is entirely his fault.

 

[Argo]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
NFL rookies are 10-0 as starters. Roethlisberger is 7-0 but that is because his in a VERY good team with the league's best rushing offense - he simply isn't forced into situations where he could make several mistakes, especially when he only throws for 20 passes or so.

Craig Krenzel is 3-0, but this is a fluke, his last "victory" he completed 35% of his passes, threw for only about 100 yards and 2 INTs no TDs and they won on INT and special teams returns, a field goal and a defensive safety. (LOL, he's winning just like he did throughout his career at OSU)

It is a farce though, unless Manning is another fluke, he isn't going to save the team. Guys like Marino and Roethlisberger inherited good teams, everyone else struggles hard on their first year, heck just look at his brother, Peyton had a terrible first year but he's now on pace to crush Marino's untouchable records.

Eli is not the answer, the Bengals had it right sticking with Kitna last year and starting Palmer this year. Even when the Bengals started out looking really bad Marvin Lewis remained firm and has kept Plamer as the starter, they're now 4-5 under the 2nd year "rookie" after fans were calling for Kitna. You often have to take a losing season under a new rookie QB before you can start to expect big things. IMHO the right thing to do would be to leave Warner in for the rest of the year even it means a losing season, THEN you start Eli with his OWN season to direct instead of taking over for someone else's troops.

Roethlisberger was NEVER going to start unless the unfortunate injurry to Maddox occured, I was expecting another 6-10 type season for the Steeler this year with Roethlisberger learning the ropes. Even after this season I wouldn't have expected Roethlisberger to be so successful. And technically he isn't even THAT successful this season, his numbers aren't dominating, they are efficient. Perfect for a team that has everything else going for them. What would be scarey is if Pitt actually had a QB that was a dominant force (such as Farve or Culpepper or Manning) Instead they've got a guy like Brady who does enough to lead his team to wins, makes those occasional 3rd and 8s to keep scoring drives alive.

But who really knows, if the Giants take a page from the Steelers and focus on making sure the seasoned players can make some big plays and take the preasure off of Eli, then it could very well end up working out. However if they all of the sudden start to do that with Eli it will raise the question as to why they didn't do it with Warner, I honostly don't think it is entirely his fault.

Yes, but I think it's better for the Giants to get Eli some playing time this year so that the same thing that happened to Cincy this year doesn't happen to then.

 

[murphy55d]

I personally think Tom Coughlin got a tent in his pants when he saw Peyton throwing for a billion touchdowns this year. He is hoping Eli can even produce 1/10th of that.

I think he's gonna get killed.

 

[torpid]

Warner's career has been over since the beginning of his career. Funny how he keeps finding jobs. I guess he doesn't listen to people like Argo.

 

[Argo]

Originally posted by: torpid
Warner's career has been over since the beginning of his career. Funny how he keeps finding jobs. I guess he doesn't listen to people like Argo.

I got nothing against Kurt Warner, as a matter of fact I admire his persevierance. It's just that I think this was the last nail in the coughin - he played very poorly the last 3-4 games for the Giants, effectively going out on a bad note. I don't see another GM taking a risk on him and making him a starter.

 

[TheAudit]

Originally posted by: Argo

Originally posted by: torpid
Warner's career has been over since the beginning of his career. Funny how he keeps finding jobs. I guess he doesn't listen to people like Argo.

I got nothing against Kurt Warner, as a matter of fact I admire his persevierance. It's just that I think this was the last nail in the coughin - he played very poorly the last 3-4 games for the Giants, effectively going out on a bad note. I don't see another GM taking a risk on him and making him a starter.

Tommy Maddox was still a starting QB until he got hurt.
If that bust can be a starter in the league then so could Warner.

The last time the Giants had a phenom was Simms.
And it took him four years to get over all the injuries from getting hit all the time because his offensive line was a sieve. Hope that's not the case this time.

 

[murphy55d]

Originally posted by: Argo

Originally posted by: torpid
Warner's career has been over since the beginning of his career. Funny how he keeps finding jobs. I guess he doesn't listen to people like Argo.

I got nothing against Kurt Warner, as a matter of fact I admire his persevierance. It's just that I think this was the last nail in the coughin - he played very poorly the last 3-4 games for the Giants, effectively going out on a bad note. I don't see another GM taking a risk on him and making him a starter.

Nobody is gonna sign him for a big contract and hand him a job. And I don't think Kurt would expect that either. but you know damn well someone is always going to be in the market for a veteran QB, especially one with MVPs and Super Bowl rings. He'll find a job somewhere in training camp, and be given a shot to win the job again.

 

[Argo]

Originally posted by: murphy55d

Originally posted by: Argo

Originally posted by: torpid
Warner's career has been over since the beginning of his career. Funny how he keeps finding jobs. I guess he doesn't listen to people like Argo.

I got nothing against Kurt Warner, as a matter of fact I admire his persevierance. It's just that I think this was the last nail in the coughin - he played very poorly the last 3-4 games for the Giants, effectively going out on a bad note. I don't see another GM taking a risk on him and making him a starter.

Nobody is gonna sign him for a big contract and hand him a job. And I don't think Kurt would expect that either. but you know damn well someone is always going to be in the market for a veteran QB, especially one with MVPs and Super Bowl rings. He'll find a job somewhere in training camp, and be given a shot to win the job again.

Maybe you're right - I admit I overreated. Somebody would probably give Warner a shot at winning starting job in the camp. However, it's safe to say he won't get multi-year contract he was hoping to get after this year. That was the sole reason he came to the Giants - to prove to the league he can be successful at this level. I wouldn't say he's failed at that, but he certainly left a lot of questions unanswered.

 

[TheAudit]

Originally posted by: Argo

Originally posted by: murphy55d

Originally posted by: Argo

Originally posted by: torpid
Warner's career has been over since the beginning of his career. Funny how he keeps finding jobs. I guess he doesn't listen to people like Argo.

I got nothing against Kurt Warner, as a matter of fact I admire his persevierance. It's just that I think this was the last nail in the coughin - he played very poorly the last 3-4 games for the Giants, effectively going out on a bad note. I don't see another GM taking a risk on him and making him a starter.

Nobody is gonna sign him for a big contract and hand him a job. And I don't think Kurt would expect that either. but you know damn well someone is always going to be in the market for a veteran QB, especially one with MVPs and Super Bowl rings. He'll find a job somewhere in training camp, and be given a shot to win the job again.

Maybe you're right - I admit I overreated. Somebody would probably give Warner a shot at winning starting job in the camp. However, it's safe to say he won't get multi-year contract he was hoping to get after this year. That was the sole reason he came to the Giants - to prove to the league he can be successful at this level. I wouldn't say he's failed at that, but he certainly left a lot of questions unanswered.

I think the offensive line failed just as much as he did. No one was screaming to pull him when they actually were blocked for him and gave him more than half a second to throw. And then the injuries mounted and the o-line looks the same as they did in training camp: bad.

 

[Nitemare]

Manning is about as moble as a Brinks truck set in concrete, combine that with one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL and you should have some major pain coming his way. Warner looked bad because he was having to run for his life before he could even get his 5 step drop down or because of missed blocking assignments that resulted in games of "Kill the QB"

Manning against the Falcon pass rush :Q

against the Philly pass rush and still dinged up from last week :Q:Q

against the beloved patriot's second best defense in the league and getting a Charley horse from running for his life :Q:Q:Q

against Ray Lewis's Ravens while on crutches :Q:Q:Q:Q

against Pittsburgh Steel Curtain part 2 defense while in a body cast :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

against Cincy and Dallas shouldn't matter because he should be out of commission by then

Coughlin is a friggin retard by destroying his franchise qb in this way...

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Manning is about as moble as a Brinks truck set in concrete, combine that with one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL and you should have some major pain coming his way. Warner looked bad because he was having to run for his life before he could even get his 5 step drop down or because of missed blocking assignments that resulted in games of "Kill the QB"

Manning against the Falcon pass rush :Q

against the Philly pass rush and still dinged up from last week :Q:Q

against the beloved patriot's second best defense in the league and getting a Charley horse from running for his life :Q:Q:Q

against Ray Lewis's Ravens while on crutches :Q:Q:Q:Q

against Pittsburgh Steel Curtain part 2 defense while in a body cast :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

against Cincy and Dallas shouldn't matter because he should be out of commission by then

Coughlin is a friggin retard by destroying his franchise qb in this way...

Although Cincy and Dallas aren't the best defensive teams, Cincy does lead the leage in takeaways...

Its a rough schedule from here on out and exactly the reason why I'd keep him out of the starting job. There's a difference between breaking in a boot and sending it through a chipper shreader.

 

[MrDingleDangle]

i cant wait to see manning get killed

 

[Argo]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Manning is about as moble as a Brinks truck set in concrete, combine that with one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL and you should have some major pain coming his way. Warner looked bad because he was having to run for his life before he could even get his 5 step drop down or because of missed blocking assignments that resulted in games of "Kill the QB"

Manning against the Falcon pass rush :Q

against the Philly pass rush and still dinged up from last week :Q:Q

against the beloved patriot's second best defense in the league and getting a Charley horse from running for his life :Q:Q:Q

against Ray Lewis's Ravens while on crutches :Q:Q:Q:Q

against Pittsburgh Steel Curtain part 2 defense while in a body cast :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

against Cincy and Dallas shouldn't matter because he should be out of commission by then

Coughlin is a friggin retard by destroying his franchise qb in this way...

I agree that Manning will have a tough road. Howeve, I agree with Coughlins decisssion. Kurt Warner dind't show anything to prove he can beat a good defense. It could be o-line, but a lot of people are saying it's partially Warner's fault.

As for Eli, well he got paid all that money - time for him to learn. And to whoever says he'll get ruined by facing 5 very good dfenses - well, if that's the case then Giants picked the wrong guy. You don't expect a superstar quarterback to be rattled by having a few bad games.