- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
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It's Been 16 Months
- Thread starter bamacre
- Start date
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
Must be a black thing. I know all white politicians keep all their campaign promises. 
Seriously, the things a politician wants to do are best learned by what he has done in the past. Campaign promises are merely repeating what he knows that particular group wants to hear, and are thus not meant to be taken seriously.
Seriously, the things a politician wants to do are best learned by what he has done in the past. Campaign promises are merely repeating what he knows that particular group wants to hear, and are thus not meant to be taken seriously.
Lanyap
Elite Member
- Dec 23, 2000
- 8,268
- 2,365
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They dont call it a quagmire for nothing. Bush was smart. They got us into some shit that will be very hard to release from...this allows the defense industry to make a killing. pardon the pun
What specifically is keeping Obama from completing his plan?
That timetable was adjusted shortly after he became president and it has always allowed for (I believe at least 30,000) soldiers to stay for training the Iraqis.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2009/02/27/62930/obama-to-extend-iraq-withdrawal.html
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
- 3,948
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Bushes plan? I would say Bushes plan was to get the next pres stuck in the war. Remember back in 2005 or 2006 when Bush slipped up and said the end of the war was for the next president? lol.
Troops would be withdrawn... but 50,000 would remain.
Those two statements do not make sense together. Yay for political double-speak
Those two statements do not make sense together. Yay for political double-speak
This. Newsflash: politicians lie and cheat and pander to their audiences. They will say whatever they think will get them elected and talk out of both sides of their mouth. Nothing new there. The only thing that makes it noteworthy with Obama is that many fell for the BS and thought he was somehow different than the usual fare. Well, it's not to early to say that no, he's scum like the rest of them.
They dont call it a quagmire for nothing. Bush was smart. They got us into some shit that will be very hard to release from...this allows the defense industry to make a killing. pardon the pun
Quoted the bold because you'll never say it again.
- Jul 1, 2004
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JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
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Eh, he was right to flip-flop. Petraeus' strategy that was implemented during the surge gave a chance for Iraq to get its political shit in order while US troops provided the necessary security to avoid outright civil war. Unfortunately the political side of things may still fail to provide stability in the end.
I highly recommend Thomas Ricks' "The Gamble", if you want to know more.
I highly recommend Thomas Ricks' "The Gamble", if you want to know more.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
- 688
- 126
I'm still waiting for the criminal trials for Bush and his "criminal cabal," which certain forum members keep saying will happen soon.
Elias824
Golden Member
- Mar 13, 2007
- 1,100
- 0
- 76
as of may 17th
Troops in Iraq - Total 95,000 U.S. troops as of February 28, 2010. All other nations have withdrawn their troops.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm
Peak was about 170k, so it is dropping quite a bit.
Troops in Iraq - Total 95,000 U.S. troops as of February 28, 2010. All other nations have withdrawn their troops.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm
Peak was about 170k, so it is dropping quite a bit.
Danube
Banned
- Dec 10, 2009
- 613
- 0
- 0
Obama isn't interested in foreign affairs and wars. He met with AfPak generals like once in first 6 months. A lot of people decided to judge Obama's degree of radicalism by how he handled the wars. Letting wars slog along is fine for keeping people thinking Obama is "just like Bush" while he's busy pushing US over a cliff at home.
You could find just as many opinions from right-wingers in this forum that Obama's foreign policy demonstrates everything he is about, with "love for Muslims while forsaking our allies" kind of claims. So forgive me if I don't put much stock in such assertions.
Here's a hypothetical question that may or may not having anything to do with this topic...
If a politician makes a campaign promise, then gets elected and either the situation changes or they learn new information or just rethink their position, should they ignore this in favor of keeping their campaign promise above all else? Or is changing your mind when the facts support it a mark of an intelligent person?
I'm serious, because it seems like the issue of "flip-flopping" totally eclipses the particular issues being "flip-flopped" on. In many, if not most, cases, people who disagreed with a politician's initial position ALSO disagree with that politician if he switches sides. I feel like it's hard to hold both those positions simultaneously. It seems pretty goofy to think a candidate was wrong to hold a particular position, and is also wrong when he changes his mind.
It honestly feels like "gotcha" politics and not actual debate. Politics should be, above all, about ISSUES...and our commentary on the politicians involved should be based on their position on the issues, not negative thing we can manage to tag them with. And while their intelligence and decision making skills can also be factors, I still don't really buy the argument that changing your mind, ever, is a bad thing.
If a politician makes a campaign promise, then gets elected and either the situation changes or they learn new information or just rethink their position, should they ignore this in favor of keeping their campaign promise above all else? Or is changing your mind when the facts support it a mark of an intelligent person?
I'm serious, because it seems like the issue of "flip-flopping" totally eclipses the particular issues being "flip-flopped" on. In many, if not most, cases, people who disagreed with a politician's initial position ALSO disagree with that politician if he switches sides. I feel like it's hard to hold both those positions simultaneously. It seems pretty goofy to think a candidate was wrong to hold a particular position, and is also wrong when he changes his mind.
It honestly feels like "gotcha" politics and not actual debate. Politics should be, above all, about ISSUES...and our commentary on the politicians involved should be based on their position on the issues, not negative thing we can manage to tag them with. And while their intelligence and decision making skills can also be factors, I still don't really buy the argument that changing your mind, ever, is a bad thing.
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
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- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 81
I think it's a valid question. But I don't think it's relevant here. Oh I'm sure there are excuses why we're still there, but in the end, it's not surprising to those who knew we would still be there.
I guess I'm not sure what your point is then... Obviously the people who correctly guessed we'd still be there aren't surprised, but what does that really mean? That bringing the troops home would be harder for President Obama than Candidate Obama figured it would be? That not every campaign promise gets met? The problem with one-liner thread comments is that it's not always clear what that one-liner is supposed to say...
It means it was an empty campaign promise all along. Leaving Iraq was never as simple as just packing up and leaving. Of course it has not been such a big issue now that obama is pres. I have little doubt it would still be a huge issue if McCain had won.
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
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The American people were fooled. Again.
We'll be out of Iraq in 16 months. No mandated health insurance. Rein in Wall Street. We'll close Guantanamo. Blah, blah, blah.
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