[It's ALIVE!!!!]Mid Range Build - It's GO time!

PrinceXizor

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Oct 4, 2002
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Well, the time has arrived. After flip flopping back and forth on just what I may need in a computer since my last build died my mind has been made for me. I just found out that after a many year hiatus I will be dipping my toe back into the CAD/Design field and so that means I need a reasonably priced mid-range build.

Since I am building this myself, this also affords me the opportunity to tweak the build to meet my needs. What I need from the AT community is a little bit of a guiding hand in this regard.

EDITED TO BETTER REFLECT THE FORMATTING IN THE STICKY

First off, my thanks to mfenn for his awesome mid-range guide it has been quite helpful.

1. Occasion CAD Work (w/ some 3D possibly), general productivity. No significant gaming. Future possible use as a file server/sync/backup for our mobile devices.

I eventualy would like to use this build as a central file server of sorts. I envision synchronizing my laptop and future mobile devices via wireless to this server. Its also a possibility that I may VPN (I believe I am using this properly) into this computer from a remote worksite with my laptop. There will be most likely a cloud storage type of system in place as well but I can forsee being able to access files on this system remotely in a pinch being handy. I may not have the tower space to accomplish this entirely in one unit but I certainly need to keep this in mind when laying out the basic infrastructure. I've never had a good backup system in place as well and this seems like a good time to start.

2. ~$600; Most likely this will preclude buying ALL hardware at once but this should be more than enough to get it up and running with purchases ready to go in the future to upgrade.

3. USA

4. n/a

5. No brand preference. Value for money and reliability.

6. Earthwatts 380W PSU, Old Antec Case (4 Front Drive Bay, 2 Floppy), ATI Radeon 9500 Pro (Assuming not going to be used)

7. Possible overclock but nothing requiring any effort. I ran an overclock by changing the multiplier for awhile until age made it unstable.

8. Current resolution is 1024 x 768 but will be eventually 1920 x 1080.

9. Within next month. Going near microcenter this weekend.

So, to get the system itself up and running should require....
1. A motherboard
2. A processor
3. RAM
4. HDD
5. OS

The other bits can be added as needed/when on sale. The catch of course is that I need to spec a motherboard up front that can handle those bits when they are added. So I suppose that is my primary focus and there are a TON of options to look at. As a starting point let's have a look at this....

1. ASROCK Z77 Pro4 - $59.99 (bundle price). Has 1 less PCIe slot than Extreme 4 and less USB ports but has 4 SATA 6Gb/s. Is this more important than PCIe? Extreme 4 is also $20 more.

2. i5-3750K - $189.99

3. 16GB (2 x 8GB) Crucial Balistix CL9 - $67.99 (bundle price)

$340.11 so far when you factor in tax.

Any comments thus far? I really need to spec the right MB that can handle my future needs.

Thanks! Yes, I do know that I am missing a HDD and OS.

P-X
 
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Zap

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Oct 13, 1999
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You probably won't need the extra PCIe slots. You may or may not need the extra SATA ports depending on your future file serving needs. Know that HDDs are currently available up to 4TB as a single drive. That's a lot of mobile devices that can be synchronized. :p

When in doubt, go with the cheaper option. You wouldn't be in doubt if you knew you needed what the more expensive one offered.
 

Termie

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The only reason you'd need the second PCIe slot of the Extreme3 or Extreme4 would be to run a dual graphics card setup. Otherwise, it's entirely unnecessary. So stick with the build you've proposed, add a graphics card (HD7850 - $180) and an SSD (Samsung 840 - $90), which will bring you to about $610, right above your budget. Your current PSU is probably OK (but if it's more than about 5 years old, you should consider replacing it), and your case will work but will be missing things like USB3 that you might want. Seeing as you how you're coming from a 9500Pro, you might be fine using the built-in graphics on the 3570k, which are over twice as fast, and buying a graphics card later.
 

PrinceXizor

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Oct 4, 2002
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Thanks for the input. I felt similarly but its good to get verification.

The PSU is brand new so that's a plus. I do have a question about the USB 3.0...you mentioned my antec case would preclude that, I assume you mean the front mounted USB ports? Is there a specific reason why they won't work? Different pin header? something else? I can always use the "floppy" spots too.

A couple last questions....

1. It would seem the best idea to buy an SSD and buy the bulk storage later (to save on upfront costs).

2. Is there a cheap place to get Win 7 or Win 8? No I do not have an edu account or a relationship with any of the businesses. The CAD work I will be doing is for a religious organization if that helps in any way.

Thanks again for the awesome input!

P-X
 

mfenn

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Thanks for the input. I felt similarly but its good to get verification.

The PSU is brand new so that's a plus. I do have a question about the USB 3.0...you mentioned my antec case would preclude that, I assume you mean the front mounted USB ports? Is there a specific reason why they won't work? Different pin header? something else? I can always use the "floppy" spots too.

USB 3.0 ports have 8 pins whereas USB 2.0 ports only have 4. So yes, there is a different header. You could buy a front panel 3.5" bay that has USB 3.0 ports on it.

1. It would seem the best idea to buy an SSD and buy the bulk storage later (to save on upfront costs).

If you don't immediately need the space that a mechanical HDD provides, then yes it is better to enjoy the performance of an SSD right away. You will also be saving yourself the reinstall/clone that is necessary when upgrading from an HDD to an SSD.
 

Sleepingforest

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Nov 18, 2012
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I know you aren't looking at cases yet, but I just wanted to point out a few that should be suitable for an eventual server:

For a smaller closet build, you're looking more at mATX (so you'll need a smaller motherboard like this one too). The Silverstone PS08 offers enough 3.5" bays for four hard drives (probably RAID1 or RAID0, depending on how much you value storage vs speed) and an SSD. It's also only $35. Other good, cheap options with similar traits (a modest amount of 3.5" bays, at least one 2.5" bay, smaller, front panel USB 3.0) cost a good amount more, so it's probably not worthwhile for you on a small budget. The next step up would probably be a $100 TJ08-e, which is basically a classier version of the same case with better cooling.

What if you're not satisfied with a tiny little case? The Cougar Solution has six 3.5" bays and room for a 2.5" drive, plus an external 3.5" bay (not hot swap, sorry) for $40. A $100 Fractal R4 (excellent case for silence, by the way) offers a greater number (8) for 3.5" bays as well as being an excellent, classy case. Anything more than 8 bays, and we're starting to look at some crazy high costs or a dedicated server chassis.
 

PrinceXizor

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Oct 4, 2002
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Thanks for the info on cases! Will stick (for the moment) with my Antec but I may decide to relocate it in the future.

Any last minute sales on SSD's or Win 8? or Win 7? I'm checking the usual suspects but if anyone knows anything let me know.

Reseving my microcenter parts in just a few minutes....
 

PrinceXizor

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Still debating on the Samsung 840 250GB....will probably get it if I can verify that I get/can use the $20 off bundle coupon at microcenter.

On a side note...any recommendations on a wireless mouse or mouse/keyboard combo? Definitely need a wireless mouse for my laptop but may splurge for wireless for my new build. Please include typical prices with your recommendations so I can see if various "deals" truly are. Thanks!
 

Sleepingforest

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SSDs are definitely worth it. My old 5400RPM HDD takes three minutes to boot. My SSD takes 30 seconds tops. Windows 8 isn't on sale per se other than the fact that the full version (many installs over time) is currently the same price as the usual "installs-only-on-one-mobo" version.

I personally hate wireless simply because it always seems flaky as hell to me. I can recommend solid wired keyboards if you want.

Do you care for mechanical keyboards? Because that'll make a difference in recommendations.
 

PrinceXizor

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1. I reserved an MK520 refurbished at microcenter. Will check out the keyboard if I like it or not.

2. The debate on the SSD wasn't to get one or not but was to get the 250GB vs. 120GB. I went with the 250GB.

3. I went with Win 7 Pro becaue of the 16GB and my familiarity with it and cheapness.

Thanks for everyone's help! I've now moved on to thinking about the actual putting it together. I have a large heat sink in my old rig. Can I reuse it? Not sure if it can go with the 1155 socket. It was an old XP socket.

P-X
 

mfenn

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Definitely forget using wireless mice and keyboards on a desktop. The hassle is not worth it for something that is going to live on your desk.

As for the heatsink, something designed for Socket A will not work with Socket 1155.
 

PrinceXizor

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I wasn't aware there was hassle with wireless devices? Care to elaborate? I have a generic mech keyboard it wouldn't make me sad to replace (I like mechanical but am surprisingly okay with the keyboard on my Inspiron 11z) and a nice logitech USB mouse already. So please...educate me....

Second, am I going to need to buy a heatsink? It shows a box but I don't know if that means it comes with one. If I need to buy one...any ideas on a good value one that can lead to simple overclocking? Nothing that requires too much effort. Not worth it to me for that.

P-X
 

DSF

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Oct 6, 2007
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I find a wireless mouse nice just because I'm terrible at keeping my desk neat, so cords tend to snag on something. That said, tidying up my desk would be just as good a solution as a wireless mouse.

I also wouldn't want to deal with constantly replacing batteries. The Logitech G7 I have avoids that with two lithium batteries and a charging dock. If it didn't have that feature I'd have stuck with wired. (And when this mouse dies I'll probably go back to wired.)
 

PrinceXizor

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I have a bunch of Eneloops so the battery issue is not really a problem. I'm more interested in the idea that they just don't work. My desk is on the smaller side and I do find the distance b/n where my tower is, the length of the cables and my desire to move the kb/mouse around at times causes me headaches that I felt a wireless system would alleviate.

But I'm willing to put up with wires if wireless setups are problematic.

P-X
 

Termie

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My Logitech Wave sets (I have two) both exhibit significant wireless interference, even with the receiver a few inches away. Sometimes I just give up and switch to using my wired gaming mouse for browsing, etc. Wireless mice are convenient, but they are certainly a hassle sometimes, and that's setting aside the battery issue, which is bad with some mice.

Unless you frequently need to remove your keyboard, for instance to use your desk for reading/writing, there's almost no reason at all to use a wireless keyboard. Anyway it's good practice to have at least one wired input device to use for troubleshooting when things go wrong.
 
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PrinceXizor

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Well, I suppose the only real issue is my stuff is so old that BOTH the keyboard and the moue run down to the tower as opposed to my kb into the tower and the mouse plugging into the keyboard. So maybe I need to ask about a decent value modern keyboard (not a fan of ergonomic keyboards because they are not ergonomic for my body).

P-X
 

Sleepingforest

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I find that the whole "USB in keyboard" deal is pretty overrated, just because it creates a huge excess of cabling on my desk the way it's set up. I mean, I do keep an exceptionally clean desk (only 2 wires in a keyboard tray), but it's worth it to me.

The absolute best value* in keyboards is a Rosewill 9000 from Amazon (I've seen MX Blacks and Browns go for under $60). They are basically rebadged Filco Majestouches, and have the good mechanical feel and endurance for half the price of others (a third of crazy high-end Torpes). The downside? No backlights, no macro buttons, and no USB ports. Just a plain keyboard.

People complain about a weak microUSB port (comes loose if you don't pull straight out) but mine hasn't just because I use it like a keyboard--it's never moved around, and I am gentle on my electronics ports because replacing them would cost a ton.

*I say this because I type hard and often, causing $10 rubber dome keyboards to wear down at least every other month. They start to only go down with extra force and slowly and come up too slowly, and I feel like I'm typing in syrup. So it's worth it to me to get a single keyboard that'll withstand my abuse for more than a year.
 

mfenn

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Second, am I going to need to buy a heatsink? It shows a box but I don't know if that means it comes with one. If I need to buy one...any ideas on a good value one that can lead to simple overclocking? Nothing that requires too much effort. Not worth it to me for that.

The retail box CPUs come with a heatsink, so no worries on that front.
 

PrinceXizor

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Oct 4, 2002
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Thanks mfenn...it certainly does and is quite bigger than my socket A cooler. The flip side...my socket A heatsink is totally copper, scrapyard here I come!

So, I finally made it to microcenter (complete debacle on my first attempt...don't ask...). I ended up with:

i5-3570k ($189.99)
Asus Z77 Pro4 ATX ($59.99 bundle price)
16GB Crucial Ballistix Sport ($67.99 bundle price)
250GB Samsung 840 ($150.99 bundle price).

Total + Tax ~ $505

OS on its way from another source.

So I'm to the business of putting it together and figuring out what I forgot to get that I need.

Potential Items:
DVD Writer: My old one was already a bit flaky and is definitely not SATA. For the cost of buying an adapter plus a little more I can get a newer SATA one. Kind of critical since the OS is coming on DVD! :)

HD Drive Adapter: My drive from Microcenter did not come with a tray or cable. Any suggestions to kludge this thing in my box w/o splashing out for a drive mounter? I have a removable 3.5" HDD cage and a removable cage behind the old floppy drive bays that is jut 3.5" wide as well. This thing won't be moving around much so I should be able to come up with something....

IDE to SATA convertor: Not critical but I need to get the data off of my old 80GB IDE drive. There were quite a few different options at microcenter but this is the kind of purchase I like to know a little bit more about before I spend money on potential junk.

Wireless Card: I have a wireless router for all my other wireless devices. Is it worth it to get a wireless card for this box? It was wired before.

Thanks for everyone's input and help. Editing the title to reflect current questions.

P-X
 

DSF

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If the only reason that you want a DVD writer is to install the OS, you should know that it is possible to move the OS onto a USB drive.

That said, for me having a DVD drive is still useful, so I moved one into my new build from an old machine.

As far as transferring old files, is there any reason you can't just network the two PCs and do it that way? It sounds like you already have a router. And in terms of wired/wireless, I would just stick with wired if the computer will be near the router.
 

Termie

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DSF has some great ideas. I'll just add that all the cables you need for your new equipment will come withthe motherboard ior power supply. And SATA DVD drives are $18 at Newegg, so it's probably worth buying one.

For transferring files, use a USB thumb drive or the network.

And no reason to go wireless unless your computer isn't near the router.
 
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PrinceXizor

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1. Kind of thought so with the wired vs. wireless, good to get confirmation. Thanks!

2. DVD will be handy for burning as well. They are cheap as well. mfenn often has the Lite-On in there. Still known for being good quality? I know reps can change over the years.

3. As for the SATA cable, the mb came with two. So one can go to the the SSD and one to the DVD. However, I plan on getting bulk storage when I have funds/when there is a deal to use as a RAID 1/5 backup. Often HDD specials are for bulk drives w/o a cable (or so I presume...maybe I'm wrong) so snagging a DVD drive WITH a cable gives me at least one to play with in the future. I don't know how much SATA cables run on their own.


3. As for transfering data, my old mb died which is why I'm building a new rig. So I don't have a working old computer to transfer the HDD from. My brother in law may have a HDD enclosure that I could borrow since this isn't going to be a long term thing. Eventually I hope to image it to the bulk drives when I get it mainly because I have Office Pro on it and some files in publisher I'd like to keep using. I do have a laptop but that really doesn't help does it! :)

P-X
 
May 27, 2008
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For your IDE hard drive just get an external enclosure. You can try to mess with IDE to SATA adapters but they can be a pain. An external enclosure is almost guaranteed to work. And as a bonus you have a portable hard drive when you are done.

This one looks good --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182154
Note: 320GB max drive size.


I wouldn't worry about the cost of SATA cables. You can get them cheap.

SATA cables --> http://www.monoprice.com/products/s...&k=2640&cs_id=1032607&pn=computer_accessories
 
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Termie

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1. Kind of thought so with the wired vs. wireless, good to get confirmation. Thanks!

2. DVD will be handy for burning as well. They are cheap as well. mfenn often has the Lite-On in there. Still known for being good quality? I know reps can change over the years.

3. As for the SATA cable, the mb came with two. So one can go to the the SSD and one to the DVD. However, I plan on getting bulk storage when I have funds/when there is a deal to use as a RAID 1/5 backup. Often HDD specials are for bulk drives w/o a cable (or so I presume...maybe I'm wrong) so snagging a DVD drive WITH a cable gives me at least one to play with in the future. I don't know how much SATA cables run on their own.


3. As for transfering data, my old mb died which is why I'm building a new rig. So I don't have a working old computer to transfer the HDD from. My brother in law may have a HDD enclosure that I could borrow since this isn't going to be a long term thing. Eventually I hope to image it to the bulk drives when I get it mainly because I have Office Pro on it and some files in publisher I'd like to keep using. I do have a laptop but that really doesn't help does it! :)

P-X

Here you go - an external IDE enclosure: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182154

That way you can just copy things over OR run your programs off of the drive. You can try to copy the Office Pro files off of it, but don't delete them from the old drive until you actually mange to run it. You can also repurpose the old drive as a backup. Worth it for $17 shipped.

SATA II cables are cheap: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812119230

Don't spend a lot of time/money on a DVD burner that includes one when you can get one for $2.50. While I like Monoprice a lot (linked by user above), the shipping cost makes buying one very inexpensive item hard to justify, but if you want to stock up, by all means order from them.

Finally, an SSD can pretty much be mounted anywhere. I have one at the bottom of a case attached with double-sided tape. SSDs used to come with 3.5" bay converters, but they don't anymore.
 
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PrinceXizor

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Oct 4, 2002
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Termie (and others!),

Great comments thanks! I'm sure I could do a lot of reading and research like I did for my last build 10 years ago (man I'm old!) but reading AT and getting the short and sweet version is nice.

I've got plenty of SATA headers to go around. I would presume the SATA cables I got with the motherboard are SATAIII cables for use with the 6Gbps controller. I also presume I should save those for HDD's and use 3Gbps for DVD drives and anything else.

I've got some big zip ties that should work just fine for mounting the SSD in the now defunct floppy drive cage.

For any others reading this thread...looks like Amazon has the same LiteOn DVD drive for the same newegg cost but with free shipping instead of $4. LiteON DVD

@Termie I see you OC both your rigs. What kind of simple OC can I get with stock Intel HSF. Anything? Not a huge OC'er myself but I did run a real simple OC of my previous system for awhile. It was the Palamino core that you could OC by changing the FSB from 266 to 333 (man am I old...again!). Obviously I'm not averse to futzing around in the BIOS if need be. With no vid card, a PSU fan, and a 120MM case fan in a decent size tower (Antec SLK3700B) I should be able to do something.
 
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