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ITC: Apple's iPhones not in violation of S3 patents

akugami

akugami

Diamond Member
Apple iPhone not in violation

The iPhone was not the Apple product violating the S3 patents. This is really really huge news. Seems HTC may have just spent $300 million for nothing. No wonder HTC made a public statement that it wanted to cross license patents with Apple.

Apparently the ITC has ruled that the only Apple products that violate the S3 patents are Mac computers using AMD graphics (good for nVidia, bad for AMD, bad for HTC). The previous announcement that Apple products were in violation of S3 patents were always assumed to be Apple's iPhones but it seems with this announcement that it is Apple's Mac computers that are in violation. The fix is simple for Apple, just switch over entirely to nVidia graphics. Two other S3 patents were deemed invalid by the ITC. The full ruling apparently has not been disclosed but the disclosure of what Apple products were in violation was released at Apple's request.

I think at this point, HTC's best hope is Motorola or another company being able to invalidate Apple's patents that Android is said to have infringed.
 
That doesn't make any sense. The S3 patents are over a decade old and the tech has been used for just as long a time; how can Mac OS X just now be in violation?
 
If someone knows the patent #'s offhand, it wouldn't be too hard to give them a once over to see where or how there's a violation. It seems strange that Apple only violates the patents when using AMD graphics cards, though.
 
Mopetar said:
If someone knows the patent #'s offhand, it wouldn't be too hard to give them a once over to see where or how there's a violation. It seems strange that Apple only violates the patents when using AMD graphics cards, though.
Click to expand...
And if the OS maker has to license S3TC for AMD GPUs, what about Linux?
 
ViRGE said:
And if the OS maker has to license S3TC for AMD GPUs, what about Linux?
Click to expand...

Apple also sells the hardware, so that may change the issue somewhat.

That said, Linux makes up such a small part of the computer market and is generally installed by the end user. There's not an obvious target to go after and so many different varieties of Linux that it would be a pain to determine which, if any, infringe.
 
ViRGE said:
That doesn't make any sense. The S3 patents are over a decade old and the tech has been used for just as long a time; how can Mac OS X just now be in violation?
Click to expand...

The patent holder has to initiate a claim against anyone the patent holder feels is infringing.

Apple is the OEM for both the software and hardware in a Mac computer. The Mac computer contains a piece of hardware (AMD GPU's) which is deemed in violation of S3 patents. So saying Apple OSX based computers using AMD's video cards is correct, a more accurate way to say it would be Apple computer hardware containing an AMD video card. But either way, the fix is easy, drop AMD video cards and use nVidia exclusively until AMD gets their crap together and Apple will no longer be in violation.


Mopetar said:
If someone knows the patent #'s offhand, it wouldn't be too hard to give them a once over to see where or how there's a violation. It seems strange that Apple only violates the patents when using AMD graphics cards, though.
Click to expand...

nVidia has a license to the relevant S3 patents, AMD does not. I have no eye for the technobabble included in the patents that you pointed to. Maybe one of our more technically inclined forum members can chime in.
 
akugami said:
nVidia has a license to the relevant S3 patents, AMD does not. I have no eye for the technobabble included in the patents that you pointed to. Maybe one of our more technically inclined forum members can chime in.
Click to expand...

This makes me wonder why they just don't go after AMD now if they think Apple is a bust.
 
Aikouka said:
This makes me wonder why they just don't go after AMD now if they think Apple is a bust.
Click to expand...

Because AMD probably has a crap load of their own patents, some of which HTC probably invariably violates in some fashion. Getting involved in another law suit probably isn't at the top of their list of priorities, much less a law suit that could possibly turn around to bite them in the ass.
 
All this will go around and around and around and end in nothing. HTC is already changing their new devices to work around the Patents they were ruled against... so their 2012 phones will be free and clear. It will take at least that long for this case to settle out after appeals...

End result... rich lawyers.
 
akugami said:
Apple iPhone not in violation

The iPhone was not the Apple product violating the S3 patents. This is really really huge news. Seems HTC may have just spent $300 million for nothing. No wonder HTC made a public statement that it wanted to cross license patents with Apple.

Apparently the ITC has ruled that the only Apple products that violate the S3 patents are Mac computers using AMD graphics (good for nVidia, bad for AMD, bad for HTC). The previous announcement that Apple products were in violation of S3 patents were always assumed to be Apple's iPhones but it seems with this announcement that it is Apple's Mac computers that are in violation. The fix is simple for Apple, just switch over entirely to nVidia graphics. Two other S3 patents were deemed invalid by the ITC. The full ruling apparently has not been disclosed but the disclosure of what Apple products were in violation was released at Apple's request.

I think at this point, HTC's best hope is Motorola or another company being able to invalidate Apple's patents that Android is said to have infringed.
Click to expand...

Unless apple want's go go back to Core 2 Duo's there is no easy solution to this problem. Both Intel and AMD graphics are in violation and since both Intel and AMD have integrated graphics on they cpu die there is no way to avoid using them.
 
If both Intel and AMD are violating the patents, they're probably going to work to rectify the matter themselves or their other customers are potential targets as well. If they get properly licensed, Apple might not have to do anything.
 
akugami said:
Apparently the ITC has ruled that the only Apple products that violate the S3 patents are Mac computers using AMD graphics
Click to expand...
Considering that any Mac that has discrete graphics uses AMD, Apple could face an injunction against their entire Mac lineup.

HTC could be in for a big licensing payday.
 
Last edited:
Pliablemoose said:
Looks like HTC just wasted a shitload of $.
Click to expand...
Read a little background information about the HTC/S3 deal and you'll realize nobody lost money; it's all in the family:

Smart phone maker HTC has agreed to buy S3 Graphics from VIA Technologies and investment firm WTI Investment International for $300 million in cash.

VIA will receive $147 million in the deal, while WTI will get $153 million. S3 makes graphics chips used in PCs, games consoles and mobile phones. VIA acquired S3 in 2001, and sold a stake to WTI in 2005.

Note that HTC Chairman Cher Wang is also Chairman of VIA, and she is “a significant shareholder” in WTI. Her husband is VIA CEO WenChi Chen. Together, they are the richest people in Taiwan; they ranked #143 in the latest edition of the Forbes Billionaires list.
Click to expand...
 
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