It was just a little hazing

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: AcidicFury
Wow. Just a little hazing? Whoever said that must be high.

It is certainly not torture....

The OP Hazing is voluntary you idoits.

And yes it was torture. Fortunately for us all this sh1t is writen down so weasly government officials look like idoits triing to mince words. USC TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113C > Sec. 2340. difines it as such. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2340.html


"'torture' means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control."

Among the various forms of "severe mental pain or sfufering", Congress specifically mentions "the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain and suffering," "the threat of imminent death" and "the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses and personality..."

You have reports from Abu Ghraib of these very things; photographs of beatings, of simulated electrocution, chemical lights, rapes, riding old women like donkeys, and of threatened execution and even deaths in us custody. Torture indeed.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: conjur

"The dismembered and charred corpses of American contractors dangling over the Euphrates River, in comparison to the abuse committed by a few soldiers at Abu Ghraib, are like the crimes of Jeffrey Dahmer compared to those of Heidi Fleiss," King wrote. "What amounts to hazing is not even in the same ballpark as mass murder."

What an asshat!!

Were he and Rush separated at birth??

So you think the abuse and sexcapades in the prison is worse than the dismemberment and hanging of the charred contractors bodies?

Just curious.

CkG

Depends were they *in* on the torture?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Hasn't Abu Musab al-Zarqawi been tied to Al-Queada? I'm pretty sure I've read that somewhere.

I think al-Zarqawi has been known to associate with Al Qaeda but I do not believe US intelligence considers them one and the same . . . granted US intelligence isn't doing so hot these days.

You are mixing parts of two different analogies. Nice try.

Actually I was quoting the source. The GOP turd tried to equate Dahmer to the assailants that took out the mercs (+/- Nick Berg's executor). And contrasted that by equating Heidi Fleiss activities to what occurred at Abu Ghraib. King's intent was to minimize what happened at Abu Ghraib but his analogies are ridiculous. Fleiss' activities were criminal but it's victimless crime . . . almost everyone concedes their were victims at Abu Ghraib.

 

[Zebo]

Some more torture (thier words) from the US Armys own investigation



a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;

b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;

c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;

d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;

e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women?s underwear;

f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;

g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;

h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;

i. (S) Writing ?I am a Rapest? (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;

j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee?s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;

k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;

l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;

m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.


7.(U) These findings are amply supported by written confessions provided by several of the suspects, written statements provided by detainees, and witness statements. In reaching my findings, I have carefully considered the pre-existing statements of the following witnesses and suspects (ANNEX 26):


8. (U) In addition, several detainees also described the following acts of abuse, which under the circumstances, I find credible based on the clarity of their statements and supporting evidence provided by other witnesses (ANNEX 26):

a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;

b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;

c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;

d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;

e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;

f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

 

[Officerdown]

Knowing this forum, it's probably just me, but I think we should do whatever it takes to find out if there is a nuke hidden somewhere in New York or some chemical bomb waiting to go off in Detroit.

I think we should tend to stay way from the sexual stuff

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Officerdown
Knowing this forum, it's probably just me, but I think we should do whatever it takes to find out if there is a nuke hidden somewhere in New York or some chemical bomb waiting to go off in Detroit.

I think we should tend to stay way from the sexual stuff

And I suppose you beat offenders once you have them in handcuffs, too.


BTW, these people arrested (70-90% of them are INNOCENT and were WRONGLY ARRESTED) are NOT terrorists. They are Iraqi citizens and only some of them are part of the insurgency (where they are merely defending their land from an invading force.)

Guantanamo is where the Al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners are, not Abu Ghraib.

 

[Officerdown]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Officerdown
Knowing this forum, it's probably just me, but I think we should do whatever it takes to find out if there is a nuke hidden somewhere in New York or some chemical bomb waiting to go off in Detroit.

I think we should tend to stay way from the sexual stuff

And I suppose you beat offenders once you have them in handcuffs, too.

Of course not! That would be, I'm sure, violating civil rights... ;-)

 

[Shortass]

Are these offenses supposed to make us cringe? Most of those aren't that serious. Personally, I'd rather be photographed naked than have bamboo shoots shoved between my finger and my fingernail. There are more serious ways of getting them to talk.

Would I want to be one of those who were tortured? Of course not. Could it be a lot worse? Very.

Should the soldiers have done it? Of course not. That was a stupid thing to do.

Should they be court marshalled? Yes.

Should everyone in the world be so obsessed with the tortures? Hell no. There are worse things happening that are more important than what happened in those prisons.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Officerdown
Knowing this forum, it's probably just me, but I think we should do whatever it takes to find out if there is a nuke hidden somewhere in New York or some chemical bomb waiting to go off in Detroit.

I think we should tend to stay way from the sexual stuff

Few problems with that skin head. First you expect the "governement" and the dolts to work there to be compitant. Been to DMV latley? Seen how they aressed 90% "by mistake". Well needless to say I don't have *faith* in thier ability other than to satisfy thier tweaked sexual and saddist preversions with innocent nobodies. Their unprofessionalism is the least of our worries.

Second for every torture you recuit MORE willing to plant that bomb. More quickly too and even garnish some state support which could facilitate such an occurance.

Third I would hardly call a coerced confession the truth. That's called lazy, conflicting and bad intel. Good intel comes from inflitration and monitoring.

Volunteer go get your dumb ass killed this fight but don't take me with you.

 

[Format C:]

Originally posted by: conjur
...these people arrested (70-90% of them are INNOCENT and were WRONGLY ARRESTED)

You know this how?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Shortass
Are these offenses supposed to make us cringe? Most of those aren't that serious. Personally, I'd rather be photographed naked than have bamboo shoots shoved between my finger and my fingernail. There are more serious ways of getting them to talk.

Would I want to be one of those who were tortured? Of course not. Could it be a lot worse? Very.

Should the soldiers have done it? Of course not. That was a stupid thing to do.

Should they be court marshalled? Yes.

Should everyone in the world be so obsessed with the tortures? Hell no. There are worse things happening that are more important than what happened in those prisons.

Oh, you're ok with the prisoners being anally raped with broomsticks and glow sticks?

You're ok with the prisoners being urinated on and having sperm shot onto them?

You're ok with prisoners being murdered?

You're ok with prisoners being beaten nearly to death?

You're ok with prisoners being attacked by dogs?

You're ok with prisoners being tied with rope and pulled forcefully into their cell's metal bars?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: conjur
...these people arrested (70-90% of them are INNOCENT and were WRONGLY ARRESTED)

You know this how?

I know it by reading. You should try it sometime.

 

[Format C:]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

So you think the abuse and sexcapades in the prison is worse than the dismemberment and hanging of the charred contractors bodies?

Yes.

Ladies and gentlemen the prosecution rests.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

So you think the abuse and sexcapades in the prison is worse than the dismemberment and hanging of the charred contractors bodies?

Yes.

Ladies and gentlemen the prosecution rests.

And, yet again, a brain-dead dumbass chimes in. :roll:

Let's try the rest of the post that you happened to cut out:

John McCain has said it.

Dick Morris has said it.


We MUST take the moral high ground. We MUST provide better treatment for the prisoners than they deserve. We MUST meet or exceed our own expectations and those the rest of the world places on us.

 

[Format C:]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

So you think the abuse and sexcapades in the prison is worse than the dismemberment and hanging of the charred contractors bodies?

Yes.

Ladies and gentlemen the prosecution rests.

And, yet again, a brain-dead dumbass chimes in. :roll:

Let's try the rest of the post that you happened to cut out:

John McCain has said it.

Dick Morris has said it.


We MUST take the moral high ground. We MUST provide better treatment for the prisoners than they deserve. We MUST meet or exceed our own expectations and those the rest of the world places on us.

The "rest of the post" is immaterial. You were asked a question. Your answer was an unbelievably apalling "Yes". No more needs saying.

 

[Format C:]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Format C:

Originally posted by: conjur
...these people arrested (70-90% of them are INNOCENT and were WRONGLY ARRESTED)

You know this how?

I know it by reading. You should try it sometime.

What have you read in order to KNOW?

 

[conjur]

<ahem>

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=52&amp;threadid=1309021&amp;highlight_key=y&amp;keyword1=70

 

[syf3r]

Originally posted by: etech

BBD,

Hasn't Abu Musab al-Zarqawi been tied to Al-Queada? I'm pretty sure I've read that somewhere.

I'm pretty sure I've read in multiple places that al-Zarqawi was killed in Fallujah back in March. If this guy is al-Zarqawi, (given that we know what al-Zarqawi looks like, and given that his photo has been plastered on all sorts of news sites for months, and given that he knows his identity is not a secret) then why wear a hood?

Also, no solid ties have been made between al-Zarqawi and al-Qaeda, aside from the "ties" the government tells us exist.

Additionally, al-Zarqawi is known to be Jordanian. The head of CNN's Middle Eastern Bureau, Octavia Nasr, has stated that the man in the videotape DOES NOT have a Jordanian accent.

/syf3r

 

[conjur]

The reports of Zarqawi having been killed were false.

 

[Officerdown]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Officerdown
Knowing this forum, it's probably just me, but I think we should do whatever it takes to find out if there is a nuke hidden somewhere in New York or some chemical bomb waiting to go off in Detroit.

I think we should tend to stay way from the sexual stuff

Few problems with that skin head. First you expect the "governement" and the dolts to work there to be compitant. Been to DMV latley? Seen how they aressed 90% "by mistake". Well needless to say I don't have *faith* in thier ability other than to satisfy thier tweaked sexual and saddist preversions with innocent nobodies. Their unprofessionalism is the least of our worries.

Second for every torture you recuit MORE willing to plant that bomb. More quickly too and even garnish some state support which could facilitate such an occurance.

Third I would hardly call a coerced confession the truth. That's called lazy, conflicting and bad intel. Good intel comes from inflitration and monitoring.

Volunteer go get your dumb ass killed this fight but don't take me with you.

First off if you?re referring to me as a skin head I'm not.

You have your opinion about the government. I have mine about your French government.

The one thing I will give you is where you stated "...for every torture you recuit MORE willing to plant that bomb." You?re right on that. So the solution to that is pick and choose your battles. Does every prisoner need to be interrogated? Of course not. If you have a prisoner and he planted a nuke in New York City and he knows where it is, I would just about do anything to find out where that nuke is.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Officerdown
The one thing I will give you is where you stated "...for every torture you recuit MORE willing to plant that bomb." You?re right on that. So the solution to that is pick and choose your battles. Does every prisoner need to be interrogated? Of course not. If you have a prisoner and he planted a nuke in New York City and he knows where it is, I would just about do anything to find out where that nuke is.

Thing is, none of the prisoners held in Abu Ghraib would be that person. They'd be held at Guantanamo.

Most of those in Abu Ghraib were innocent civilians, most of the rest being insurgents (Iraqis fighting against those invading their homeland.)

 

[MonkeyK]

YAY!
It was just hazing after all. Those Iraqis were such good sports about it, now they can finally join the US MILITARY.

I wanna join too, where do I sign up for hazing?:roll:

 

[Officerdown]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Officerdown
The one thing I will give you is where you stated "...for every torture you recuit MORE willing to plant that bomb." You?re right on that. So the solution to that is pick and choose your battles. Does every prisoner need to be interrogated? Of course not. If you have a prisoner and he planted a nuke in New York City and he knows where it is, I would just about do anything to find out where that nuke is.

Thing is, none of the prisoners held in Abu Ghraib would be that person. They'd be held at Guantanamo.

Most of those in Abu Ghraib were innocent civilians, most of the rest being insurgents (Iraqis fighting against those invading their homeland.)

Like I said pick and choose your battles. It?s important to find where a bomb is planted at all costs. People that have no information shouldn't be interrogated. If they are in prison for fighting against allied forces, however, than they are not innocent.

 

[syf3r]

I think the whole term "insurgents" is a giant misnomer created by media distortion of the truth. The fact is that these are not insurgents, they are native, indiginous Iraqi people who are resisting a foreign power's invasion. The media cleverly calls them "insurgents" which puts the image in the mind of the uninformed that the entire Iraqi populace welcomes us and that all this trouble is being caused by people slipping over the border and stirring up conflict. The truth is far from that. Are there foreign guerillas coming over the border to assist their muslim brothers? Of course, but the media would like you to believe that the insurgents are all foreign fighters when they, in fact, are not.

/syf3r

 

[Infohawk]

There was a wide variety of mistreatment. Some of it was torture, some of it was just abuse. It's all bad.

To anybody who thinks this is just hazing, I'd be curious what you would call this if it happened to Americans. Even if you still did not consider it torture, would you be happy about it? Would it be no big deal if this were happening to Americans?