It seems to me that LCD TV's make more sense

[Midwayman]

So can someone answer me this:

Full array tvs with local dimming. How good is the effect?

What bothers me most is how movies with letterbars on the top and bottom will have grey in the top and bottom, which I find distracting. Local dimming does something about this?

It depends on how many zones, and how its done. Back lit LED with a lot of zones can do a pretty good job. Bars might glow a bit at the edge of the picture, but would be dark at the bezel. Edge lit models are just going to be hopeless. With a really good local dimming model you most lose point lights. Things like a night sky won't have the contrast the should, but larger regions will. The trouble is that a good local dimming LCD is way more than a plasma.

 

[MongGrel]

Depends I guess, the old Olevia 37 incher I'm on in the bedroom that they don't even make anymore after they were bought up still one of the better TV's I've ever seen, even over it's old big brother 747i in the main room.

Though for watching movies and the sound system I prefer the 747i still.

They are both long in the tooth so it's irrelevant, but this 37 incher still looks very nice, was supposed to be only 720P I thought, then to my amazement when I built a HTPC in here it runs 1080P very well.

 

[JackBurton]

I disagree, poofy... The beginning of the end was many moons ago, when Panasonic announced they were discontinuing plasmas.

You mean Pioneer?

 

[Wingznut]

You mean Pioneer?

I viewed Panasonic as the leader in technological development of Plasma TV's. So, it seems to me that their announcement was really the wind out of the sails.

 

[JackBurton]

I viewed Panasonic as the leader in technological development of Plasma TV's. So, it seems to me that their announcement was really the wind out of the sails.

Samsung and Panasonic were the leaders by default once Pioneer left the market in 2009. The sad thing is, if you put both the best of what Samsung and Panasonic had to offer in their 2014 plasmas, that is where Pioneer was at in 2009 (ignoring the 3D aspect). So the beginning of the end for plasma was in 2009. Even sadder, plasma had so much more to offer, however it required a company like Pioneer to bring out the best in it. Panasonic and Samsung weren't interested in making the best plasma, they were interested in making a plasma that would sell well. Big difference.

However, if you missed out on a Panasonic plasma, Samsung offers a very nice plasma as well. All is not lost YET, if you want to purchase a nice plasma.

 

[desura]

The thing for me is that...I've had lots of trouble with my panasonic tv. Now, a power surge can do a lot to break your faith in electronics, or maybe it was natural? Anyways, the darn thing was out of warranty by maybe a few months and so they told me I was SOL. A search shows that lots of people with panasonics have problems like i had...blacks being pretty bad, weird noise showing up...plasmas in general have those issues.

But, with Samsung still in the game, there's hope. I mean, Samsung is the leader in display tech, no?

 

[JackBurton]

The thing for me is that...I've had lots of trouble with my panasonic tv. Now, a power surge can do a lot to break your faith in electronics, or maybe it was natural? Anyways, the darn thing was out of warranty by maybe a few months and so they told me I was SOL. A search shows that lots of people with panasonics have problems like i had...blacks being pretty bad, weird noise showing up...plasmas in general have those issues.

But, with Samsung still in the game, there's hope. I mean, Samsung is the leader in display tech, no?

Which tech? In plasma, yes, by default. In LCD, Sony and Samsung have the top sets.

 

[MongGrel]

http://www.avsforum.com/t/814773/official-olevia-747i-742i-owners-thread/30

Was good in it's day, still does actually but out of date, and out of business, more or less.

The newer ones I'd never go near.

Depends sometimes on what I'm watching, some BluRays it still seems you could reach into the picture.

I got it at half price ATT I guess, years ago.

But I've all ready told the wife a good Projector will happen one day he he.

:biggrin:

 

[LegendKiller]

Well aren't a you a strong lad. I needed help with my 70" LCD, can't imagine what it's like to strong-arm a 60" plasma by yourself. Do you do 1 finger pushups as well?

I have a 60" Kuro and a 65" ZT60 and I was able to put them on my entertainment centers on my own, without my wife's help.

How many time's are you lifting them like that?

This thread is nothing more than the same bullshit that has been spewed ad nauseum by people who have more money than brains. How much a TV weighs and this supposed massive energy differential (there is 0 to marginal difference) is really ridiculous.

What matters is viewing quality. If that means a brighter TV, thus an LCD, works better for you, then that means you buy an LCD. If you can deal with the brightness, then a plasma offers better quality, period.

My TV ZT60 faces east and is about 8' diagonally away from about 10' of 5' tall windows with a very bright southern exposure. To mitigate the problem we have top-down bottom-up shades that work very well.

I wrestled with whether to go LCD quite a bit and finally decided on better PQ of plasma even though my cutout could easily fit a 75". Sometimes I still think I should have gone with more real estate but looking at my buddies 70" of the same series I know I have better PQ.

3D = joke gimmick.

Fan noise? Are you kidding me? Unless I am 1' away from the TV I can't hear a fan.

 

[LegendKiller]

Samsung and Panasonic were the leaders by default once Pioneer left the market in 2009. The sad thing is, if you put both the best of what Samsung and Panasonic had to offer in their 2014 plasmas, that is where Pioneer was at in 2009 (ignoring the 3D aspect). So the beginning of the end for plasma was in 2009. Even sadder, plasma had so much more to offer, however it required a company like Pioneer to bring out the best in it. Panasonic and Samsung weren't interested in making the best plasma, they were interested in making a plasma that would sell well. Big difference.

However, if you missed out on a Panasonic plasma, Samsung offers a very nice plasma as well. All is not lost YET, if you want to purchase a nice plasma.

The ZT60 does beat out my Kuro (non-elite), by a decent margin.

 

[MongGrel]

Yeah, 3D was tried in the 50's, never had went there and not interested myself.

Well I did have a Sega system 3D once in the 80's I guess for gaming, still was a gimmick.

 

[JackBurton]

The ZT60 does beat out my Kuro (non-elite), by a decent margin.

Big difference between a standard Kuro and an Elite. The problem with the 9th gen standard Pioneer's is that they removed a lot of the picture controls that the 8th gens had. As a result, the black levels are great, but a lot of the details are lost due to not being able to dial it in. My in-laws have a standard Pioneer (5020), and while the black levels are great, it lacks a lot of detail. Kind of irritating.

As for the black levels, the ZT60 is just about on par with the best Pioneer plasma produced, the Elite 101 and KRP-500m. Both of those were consider 9.5 gen Pioneer's with slight deeper blacks than the 9th gens. Down side, they were only 50" sets.

But black levels aren't the end all be all of plasmas. Most magazine just focus on BL, but Pioneer also had fantastic tech that just about prevented IR. Extremely IR resistant displays. They also had some of the lowest input lag of all display tech. You didn't even have to put it in "game mode". Just set it and forget it for pretty much any content.

But that is what Pioneer excelled at, creating the best displays, bar none. They were so far ahead of the game, it took Panasonic 5 more years to almost catch up to them. But that is also what led to their downfall. People didn't want the best displays, they wanted good enough. Why do you think Vizio is doing so well? Do they have the best displays? No. They have, big, cheap, good enough displays. And that is what average Joe wants.

Sorry, I don't want to keep going on about Pioneer. It's just a sore subject for me. The ZT60 is also a fantastic set. If you haven't had it professionally calibrated, I'd highly recommend it. It will bring out every bit of performance the set has to offer.

 

[LegendKiller]

Big difference between a standard Kuro and an Elite. The problem with the 9th gen standard Pioneer's is that they removed a lot of the picture controls that the 8th gens had. As a result, the black levels are great, but a lot of the details are lost due to not being able to dial it in. My in-laws have a standard Pioneer (5020), and while the black levels are great, it lacks a lot of detail. Kind of irritating.

As for the black levels, the ZT60 is just about on par with the best Pioneer plasma produced, the Elite 101 and KRP-500m. Both of those were consider 9.5 gen Pioneer's with slight deeper blacks than the 9th gens. Down side, they were only 50" sets.

But black levels aren't the end all be all of plasmas. Most magazine just focus on BL, but Pioneer also had fantastic tech that just about prevented IR. Extremely IR resistant displays. They also had some of the lowest input lag of all display tech. You didn't even have to put it in "game mode". Just set it and forget it for pretty much any content.

But that is what Pioneer excelled at, creating the best displays, bar none. It was their business model. They were so far ahead of the game, it took Panasonic 5 more years to almost catch up to them. But that is also what led to their downfall. People didn't want the best displays, they wanted good enough. Why do you think Vizio is doing so well? Do they have the best displays? No. They have, big, cheap, good enough displays. And that is what average Joe wants.

I know that a lot of people were hacking the 5020s with elite boards to open up those features. They just needed to install an elite board.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah, 3D was tried in the 50's, never had went there and not interested myself.

Well I did have a Sega system 3D once in the 80's I guess for gaming, still was a gimmick.

I thought that until I got a TV that did 3D and watched a movie on the set once I calibrated it and adjusted the 3D settings. It's VERY enjoyable now and I have several 3D movies as a result.

 

[JackBurton]

I know that a lot of people were hacking the 5020s with elite boards to open up those features. They just needed to install an elite board.

Yep. If it was my TV, I'd do it, but they probably wouldn't appreciate the improvement. And they definitely wouldn't pay for an ISF calibration.

The KPR also needed a hack (software hack) to unlock ISF modes, but it was pretty easy to do. Easier than swapping out a board.

 

[poofyhairguy]

http://www.avsforum.com/t/814773/official-olevia-747i-742i-owners-thread/30

Was good in it's day, still does actually but out of date, and out of business, more or less.

I had a 42 inch version of one of those. Excellent set, my first HD TV. I too got it to play 1080p with a HTPC. I gave it away recently to my wife's cousin simply because she would take could care of it and enjoy it like I do my Pannys.

But that is what Pioneer excelled at, creating the best displays, bar none. They were so far ahead of the game, it took Panasonic 5 more years to almost catch up to them. But that is also what led to their downfall.

Good point. It is just sad that Panasonic had to throw in the towel just as they caught up to Pioneer's best. Panasonic was big on pushing value down their lines, maybe the ST70 series would have had Kuro 9G blacks. I know I can tell a clear difference between my S50 and my ST60.

The world will never know.

 

[JackBurton]

Good point. It is just sad that Panasonic had to throw in the towel just as they caught up to Pioneer's best. Panasonic was big on pushing value down their lines, maybe the ST70 series would have had Kuro 9G blacks. I know I can tell a clear difference between my S50 and my ST60.

The world will never know.

The sad part is, I'll never see this from a plasma. What you are seeing there is 0 idle lumens, in short, pure black. AND measuring in at 9mm thick. And if that isn't impressive enough in 2014, Pioneer demoed it in 2008!

Oh Pioneer, how I miss you. 🙁

 

[Railgun]

But OLED craps all over a 4K LED set. 4k is just something to get them by until OLED can be sold at a reasonable price.

What? That's like saying my car is faster than your banana.

OLED craps over LCD. Resolution has nothing to do with the tech in this context. It's about performance of the display itself, regardless of the tech used.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The sad part is, I'll never see this from a plasma. What you are seeing there is 0 idle lumens, in short, pure black. AND measuring in at 9mm thick. And if that isn't impressive enough in 2014, Pioneer demoed it in 2008!

Oh Pioneer, how I miss you. 🙁

That is pretty amazing tech. I don't know though, I could never afford a Kuro. The great thing about Pannys was the value in the lower and midrange models.

 

[Riverhound777]

Yep. If it was my TV, I'd do it, but they probably wouldn't appreciate the improvement. And they definitely wouldn't pay for an ISF calibration.

The KPR also needed a hack (software hack) to unlock ISF modes, but it was pretty easy to do. Easier than swapping out a board.

Love my KRP-500. Unlocked ISF a few years ago I think. Had it since 2009 or 2010, don't remember, but no plans to replace it any time soon.

 

[desura]

That is pretty amazing tech. I don't know though, I could never afford a Kuro. The great thing about Pannys was the value in the lower and midrange models.

But judging by the vid, the noise which annoys me so much with my panny...is just natural with plasmas?

 

[Midwayman]

But judging by the vid, the noise which annoys me so much with my panny...is just natural with plasmas?

If you put your eyes put against the glass, yes. From normal viewing distance, no.

 

[JackBurton]

Love my KRP-500. Unlocked ISF a few years ago I think. Had it since 2009 or 2010, don't remember, but no plans to replace it any time soon.

Just kick back and wait for OLED to mature. 😉

 

[tential]

Just kick back and wait for OLED to mature. 😉

OLED seems to be suffering the same problems Plasma did. Major players in the game aren't making OLED screens and are saying that are already launching smear campaigns against OLED since they have no intention of releasing an OLED product. They're sticking with LED and favoring resolution over display quality.

I hope it doesn't happen but already there have been statements from companies that indicate they're against moves towards OLED in favor of their current tech/resolution.

Much easier to sell 4K>1080p than OLED> LED.

 

[MongGrel]

Yeah, from what I've been seeing it was like BetaMax vs VHS back in the day on the OLED vs 4K at the moment a bit.

Someone needs to start making OLED Porn, he he.

J/K a bit.