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IT Jobs possibly down 40% by 2010?

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Originally posted by: Descartes
There's also a whole other side of technology that most people don't approach, and this is mainly small to medium business. Barcoding, manufacturing (primarily lean manufacturing techniques--Kanban, use of PLCs for automation and driving ERP, etc.), and just general business processing consulting. There are huge opportunities in this sector, and all of which require someone who blends business with technical.

<----- FTW!!! 😀
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: wyvrn

No way, not the devlopers I know. With increasing specialization and the increasing complexity of business, you are trying to tell me developers can be software and business experts at the same time? No way in hell.

The roles are changing. Any developer or person in computing that doesn't get more involved in the business aspect really will suffer. The whole shift in the industry is moving that way IMHO. It just makes sense. You can't be a good developer without understanding the business processes involved and the forces driving them.

People seem to forget that the software still needs to be written, and it takes skill to be a good developer. Not everyone can sit around and grab ass all day about specs, pricing, requirements, etc etc.
 
Originally posted by: Engineer
So the manufacturing jobs that are to be replaced by the high tech jobs that are now to be replaced by ?

Service jobs FTW!

Would you like fries with that? I'm manufacturing a burger!!!
 
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Engineer
So the manufacturing jobs that are to be replaced by the high tech jobs that are now to be replaced by ?

Service jobs FTW!

Would you like fries with that? I'm manufacturing a burger!!!


Says the order taker across the IP lines from your local McDonalds drive through to a call center in India.

(no joke)
 
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Descartes
There's also a whole other side of technology that most people don't approach, and this is mainly small to medium business. Barcoding, manufacturing (primarily lean manufacturing techniques--Kanban, use of PLCs for automation and driving ERP, etc.), and just general business processing consulting. There are huge opportunities in this sector, and all of which require someone who blends business with technical.

<----- FTW!!! 😀

Absolutely my green-thumb-having brother! 😀 Most of my work in the past 4 years has been in this sector in fact. Actually developed a Kanban platform for one of the larger tire manufacturers to regulate inventory of tire components based on customer demand (historical and current). It talked to all of the PLCs on the floor to see what the current capacity was to know when to order components, etc.

IMO, manufacturing is the sector to be in, both business and technical. There's such tremendous opportunity in every environment, and they require a vision beyond the strictly technical. It has the added bonus of being a lot of fun as well.
 
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: wyvrn

No way, not the devlopers I know. With increasing specialization and the increasing complexity of business, you are trying to tell me developers can be software and business experts at the same time? No way in hell.

The roles are changing. Any developer or person in computing that doesn't get more involved in the business aspect really will suffer. The whole shift in the industry is moving that way IMHO. It just makes sense. You can't be a good developer without understanding the business processes involved and the forces driving them.

People seem to forget that the software still needs to be written, and it takes skill to be a good developer. Not everyone can sit around and grab ass all day about specs, pricing, requirements, etc etc.

Yeah, there will still be the neccessity for someone that we can jam in a cubicle and say "WRITE CODE!" and they'll do it. But we won't need as many of them, because we're getting better at making less of that work (by getting the specs right in the first place, among other things)
 
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: wyvrn

No way, not the devlopers I know. With increasing specialization and the increasing complexity of business, you are trying to tell me developers can be software and business experts at the same time? No way in hell.

The roles are changing. Any developer or person in computing that doesn't get more involved in the business aspect really will suffer. The whole shift in the industry is moving that way IMHO. It just makes sense. You can't be a good developer without understanding the business processes involved and the forces driving them.

People seem to forget that the software still needs to be written, and it takes skill to be a good developer. Not everyone can sit around and grab ass all day about specs, pricing, requirements, etc etc.

I'm going to try keep this post short, but this is a topic very close to my mind. I've fought with this concept my entire career both as an employee and consultant.

What separates you from another developer? Does anyone outside of technical circles know or actually care? When I first started all I wanted was to be the best (whatever that means), and in a sense of naivete I thought this actually mattered. It still does, but just not to the right people, in my opinion. There are exceptions to everything, and companies like Microsoft actually care about your level of talent; however, outside of those circles you are gauged on a very simple metric: Can you deliver the business value as required? The business value is whether or not you satisfy whatever requirements have been given, and as any developer knows there are dozens of different ways to measure such success (or failure).

The problem is this. The developer next to you could have no more talent in development than Britney Spears does singing, but until your added talent at the technical level can translate into added value at the business level it doesn't even matter (again, there are exceptions).

The whole point is that those of us that actually care about our work concentrate on delivering better technical solutions, and it's this myopia that leads many talented developers into obsolescence. Some of the most talented developers I know are without jobs, but it's because they spent the last 5 years doing embedded work in C or C++. It seems it's a paradox: To win in this business you can't concentrate the most on that which you actually do.

Or you can go work for Microsoft, Google, and similar companies where they recognize technical ability; otherwise, you're left in the world dominated by capricious business practices where the metric knows nothing of bits and everything of dollars.

My $0.02.
 
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Originally posted by: Descartes
It has the added bonus of being a lot of fun as well.

Because when you screw up, big things crash into each other 😛

LOL, that's a great way of summarizing it 🙂

As developers we all get a lot of satisfaction from actually seeing something we labored over for weeks/months/years reach fruition, but there is a lot to be said about seeing machines rather than pixels. It makes me wish I was in robotics...
 
I think one of the big problems is this: Say Joe Schmoe is laid off because management wants someone who's skilled in x software or hardware. Joe Schmoe recognizes the need to update his skillset, takes some classes, but finds himself shut out because companies want actual work experience, not just knowledge on the subject. All of a sudden he finds himself locked out of the field he may have been working in for 10-15 years unless he finds the holy grail (or starting over at an entry level position if lucky).
 
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
I think one of the big problems is this: Say Joe Schmoe is laid off because management wants someone who's skilled in x software or hardware. Joe Schmoe recognizes the need to update his skillset, takes some classes, but finds himself shut out because companies want actual work experience, not just knowledge on the subject. All of a sudden he finds himself locked out of the field he may have been working in for 10-15 years unless he finds the holy grail (or starting over at an entry level position if lucky).

I think this is only true for those that specialize in the company rather than themselves.

I used to work for MCI WorldCom (*shudder*), and when they asked me to learn a collection of esoteric languages, platforms, etc. I turned in my resignation. Point? I would have been an MCI WorldCom specialist, and I would have trained myself out of my industry.

This industry requires constant learning. That's what we all assumed when we joined it whether we like it or not. Constantly diversify your knowledge portfolio independent of the company you are currently with and you'll find yourself always employable; to use a cliche, the only job security you have is the ability to get another job.
 
This article is a misrepresentation of what was actually in the Gartner paper. I have the PDF open right now and nowhere does it say "IT to shrink by 40%". The only thing close was "? By 2010, six of 10 people affiliated with the IT organization will assume business-facing (vs. IT-contained) roles."
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
This article is a misrepresentation of what was actually in the Gartner paper. I have the PDF open right now and nowhere does it say "IT to shrink by 40%". The only thing close was "? By 2010, six of 10 people affiliated with the IT organization will assume business-facing (vs. IT-contained) roles."

Which confirms where the industry is headed. IT will be transformed into business people who dabble in IT and understand the technology/concepts. It's becoming (as predicted) a truly strategic role for the business. And you can't be strategic without being deeply ingrained in the actual business of running the business.

Excellent quote from the article..
"Make no mistake: If you are an IT specialist who ignores or downplays the demand to develop business-oriented competence, you are at risk of being unemployable within the next five years," said Diane Morello, a vice president of research at Gartner.

And I do like how they bastardized the gartner article.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: alchemize
This article is a misrepresentation of what was actually in the Gartner paper. I have the PDF open right now and nowhere does it say "IT to shrink by 40%". The only thing close was "? By 2010, six of 10 people affiliated with the IT organization will assume business-facing (vs. IT-contained) roles."

Which confirms where the industry is headed. IT will be transformed into business people who dabble in IT and understand the technology/concepts. It's becoming (as predicted) a truly strategic role for the business. And you can't be strategic without being deeply ingrained in the actual business of running the business.

Excellent quote from the article..
"Make no mistake: If you are an IT specialist who ignores or downplays the demand to develop business-oriented competence, you are at risk of being unemployable within the next five years," said Diane Morello, a vice president of research at Gartner.

And I do like how they bastardized the gartner article.

Yup - it's an emphasis on how the specialized pure developer is no longer the employment model. The superior power developers will still have a role, but the "average socially disinclined grump who only knows one technology and ignores the business" is going to become a dinosaur.
 
Originally posted by: Descartes


As developers we all get a lot of satisfaction from actually seeing something we labored over for weeks/months/years reach fruition, but there is a lot to be said about seeing machines rather than pixels. It makes me wish I was in robotics...

I can tell you, it's a beautiful thing. I design the entire cell (not huge by automation standards, but big enough), program the PLC's, screens, and robots (including handshaking, safety, etc). Watching them come together (not crash either! 😛) is a beautiful thing indeed. Poetry in motion! 🙂
 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Article


Interesting article, and something to think about if you're majoring in something IT-related.

Topic Title: IT Jobs possibly down 40% by 2010?
Not if you live in India.
IT jobs are expanding rapidly....just not in the US.

 
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: PaulNEPats
Article


Interesting article, and something to think about if you're majoring in something IT-related.

Topic Title: IT Jobs possibly down 40% by 2010?
Not if you live in India.

Actually, India is starting to lose contracts because they have gotten too wealthy. There standard of living has risen and the workers are demanding more. So...outsourcing is starting to go to other countries instead.
 
I think most programming jobs will go overseas, since it's time consuming, expensive, and doesn't really NEED to be done here.

On-site tech support and other service jobs which demand on-site support will stay.
 
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
which is why im completing my MBA and trying to move more towards the business side of things

I'm sure another businessman will find a way to outsource your job.
 
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