It Feels Like Louisiana Is Being Sacrificed

[Moonbeam]

You "coonasses" sure as hell didn't have a problem when offshore oil drilling meant jobs and massive profits for your oil companies, which drastically outweighs what the federal government gets from those leases. Neither did I, until 2 months ago my job was mapping leases. But I'm not the one who's been beating the "government bad, states' rights good, private sector good, free market good" drum for 150 years

Those coonasses wouldn't be losing their minds if they didn't know they were guilty and they wouldn't be looking for somebody else to blame. But the suffering you want to call pay back is going to be real. So they blew their own foot off as we helped ourselves to their oil. Now what do we do? Leave them to die?

You must know that us progressives will never do that. They are my fellow Americans and if my tax dollar has to bail them out, I'm OK with that. They may just be stupid ignorant worthless human beings, but so am I. And I see an earthquake in my future. So let me, from California, a place many down South would wish might fall into the sea, that I feel for your situation and hope you get help.

 

[Patranus]

Bobby Jindal (the GOP governor I am sure they are in no rush to help) has asked for days for permission from feds to build sand barriers to keep the oil out of the marshes. For it's part, the Army Corps of Engineers said it needs time to study the environmental impact of the sand barriers (called "booms"). Jindal now says he will act on his own and can't wait for feds or USA/COE.

The environmental impact of oil booms or the environmental impact of a shit load of oil.

hmmmmm.

Thank you greenies.

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiner
So doing nothing is preferable?

Scientific evidence suggests that in lieu of doing noting you can spin around on your head and get a similar effect.

 

[her209]

The environmental impact of oil booms or the environmental impact of a shit load of oil.

hmmmmm.

Thank you greenies.

I didn't realize you were an environmentalist.

 

[heyheybooboo]

I didn't realize you were an environmentalist.

Anus Costanza, Marine Biologist

I look forward to his commentary on the effects of open marsh water management and selected tidal marsh two-way interactions that link biological and physical processes.

And how the barrier 'plan' ultimately effects fresh and salt water sediment delivery rates and further affects the coastal marshes.

And then he can explain where the State of LA is going to find around 500 million cubic feet of sand and rock.





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[Elias824]

"Illegal Dumping Penalties

Depending on the location where the illegal dumping occurred there can be a variety of types of penalties. Illegal dumping and littering charges are typically defined by state and local authorities so therefore there is significant variation. Generally fines will range from a few hundred dollars up to several thousand dollars in clean up costs for the area. In some areas the penalties may also include the requirement of the convicted to reclaim the site completely at their own expense to the satisfaction of the court or appointed official within a specific time period. "

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Illegal-Dumping.htm

Cant Louisiana just fine BP whatever they want to clean it up off of littering and dumping laws? Maybe make the ceo clean it up by hand.

 

[dyna]

If the oil was flowing down the streets of Washington would the government still stand aside and let BP handle it? I'm not a huge supporter of government involvement but for natural disasters or preventing them, they should be doing whatever it takes to fix to the problem. After its all over they hold BP financially responsible.

 

[her209]

After its all over they hold BP financially responsible.

Of which BP will fight in court for years until its settled out of court for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Zargon]

Pennies compared to how much money is stolen from us in the form of offshore oil revenue sharing.

Plus we do provide roughly 1/3 of the nations energy so umm, whats your point again?

We also have the pleasure of dealing with all of the chemicals that are used to grow your food and the dead zone in the Gulf that it has created.

We provide this country a hell of a lot more than it provides us.

you dont provide any of mine so you can screw off!!

and no you do not provide roughly 1/3rd of the nations energy, its more like 1/10th

http://www.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_rankings.cfm?keyid=89&orderid=1

 

[Fern]

btw -- Loosianna is consistently in the top 5 for the last 5 years in Federal spending received per dollar of taxes paid to the tune of around $1.80 per dollar paid AND

the Federal tax burden in Loosianna (with the exception of Mississippee) is the lowest in the country.

Though you might want to know
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The information in that chart is garbage. It is incorrect and based upon an absurdly stupid premise.

The income corporations earn, and the federal income paid there upon, is attributed the state where HQ is located even if there are no actual profit generating operations located there.

None of the big oil companies are HQ'd in LA (even though they have substantial operations there). So, none of the profit and taxes from those activities Darwin333 mentions performed in LA are credited to LA in that chart you link. The amount of profit generated and income tax paid by LA are substanially understated.

I.e., the chart is bogus to the extreme.

Fern

 

[Darwin333]

Oh you mean those plans to build 80 miles of sand bars? The plan that even by Jindals timetable will take 9 months to complete? Yeah, lets get right on that And while we are at it lets build a time machine and go back a year and start building those sand bars so they might actually do some good.

You don't need 80 miles to start. A few miles will protect a huge portion of inland areas that are at risk. Hell, a hundred yards or so protects one of the marshes we are cleaning right now. Unfortunately it is probably too late for that marsh and it will likely be completely destroyed. How long you reckon would it take a dredge to make a mini levee in very shallow water that is only a hundred yards long? Hell, have you ever even seen a dredge work or know what the environment we are working in is? Do you have any clue WHY you want the sand there?

You have no clue wtf you are talking about. It is painfully obvious that you, the Federal Government nor BP know what they are doing so how about yall stfu and get the fuck out of the way. Don't want to fund it or want to obstruct it then have fun when the shrimpers and fishermen blockade your oil and the gas pumps go dry.

The really sad part is this is nothing but political bullshit to 2/3 of the people in this thread. Half want to throw barbs at Jindal and the other half want to throw barbs at Obama. I am almost starting to agree with the shrimpers, you bastards need a wake up call as to exactly what Louisiana provides this nation.

 

[Elias824]

If the oil was flowing down the streets of Washington would the government still stand aside and let BP handle it? I'm not a huge supporter of government involvement but for natural disasters or preventing them, they should be doing whatever it takes to fix to the problem. After its all over they hold BP financially responsible.

+1

 

[JSt0rm]

They had an expert on npr a couple days ago that said the sand bars could do more harm then good. They said it could alter how fast the water moves and could actually push the oil deeper into the marshes. I think the fed is trying to figure this out.

 

[Darwin333]

you dont provide any of mine so you can screw off!!

and no you do not provide roughly 1/3rd of the nations energy, its more like 1/10th

http://www.eia.doe.gov/state/state_energy_rankings.cfm?keyid=89&orderid=1

Thats just what we produce, not what we provide. Although the term "energy" was incorrect on my part, I meant oil/nat gas/petrochemicals. That chart also excludes the offshore production (Federal leases, such as the one the leak is on now) that is serviced by Louisiana and pumped through our pipelines to our refineries. It mentions the LOOP but it doesn't factor in the oil received through it which is basically the vast majority of all oil shipped from far away lands (its the ONLY port in the country capable of handling the Ultra Large Crude Carriers, that gets shut down alone and the country is fucked....hard)

 

[Darwin333]

They had an expert on npr a couple days ago that said the sand bars could do more harm then good. They said it could alter how fast the water moves and could actually push the oil deeper into the marshes. I think the fed is trying to figure this out.

The Fed (more specifically the COE) has granted approval after our AG threatened a lawsuit.

 

[Fern]

So which is it? Repubs need to make up their friggin minds. After Katrina they would have us believe that Bush bore little responsibility for poor planning and for it's effects during the aftermath. All the real responsibilities and decisions were in the hands of local authorities, any effort to hold Bush accountable for apathy and poor choices was just obviously partisan politics.


And now with this spill the same crowd is howling over Obama being the culprit of the response. Wow. Accountability only applies when there is a (D) involved, how noble.


LOLz at the hypocrisy, as well as pblabber's ongoing Palin lovefest. Sure, send her, assuming of course her fee is doable.

In many respects these are two very different things. Hurricanes != oil spills.

The federal government is a partner in, and receives huges amounts of revenue from, offshore drilling. This is not the case with hurricanes.

Not only is the federqal government a partner in this (they issue leases etc) but they have a direct oversight responsibility. Remember that this drilling was outside the boundary of LA and thus LA is uninvolved (other than the damage). This is not the case with hurricanes.

LA itself must bear much blame for the hurricane situation. LA is responsible for allowing building in areas below sea level. LA itself was largely responsible for their own levees. It's well documented they they wasted/diverted much federal provided for maintaining the levees. LA, and their local government counterparts were responsible for evacuation etc. This is different from the oil leak.

No, there is much difference between the two events. The one thing similarity we do see is the largely ineffectual response from the federal government.

Fern

 

[Fern]

They had an expert on npr a couple days ago that said the sand bars could do more harm then good. They said it could alter how fast the water moves and could actually push the oil deeper into the marshes. I think the fed is trying to figure this out.

Yeah. I see the urgency of the situation, but am also worried about any 'unintended consequences' of taking rushed action.

However, one thing stands out strongly - such contingency plans should have already been studied and thought out. Perhaps the scope of this is unexpected, but surely a leak from one of the thousands of drilling operations in the Gulf is not.

Fern

 

[Darwin333]

You "coonasses" sure as hell didn't have a problem when offshore oil drilling meant jobs and massive profits for your oil companies, which drastically outweighs what the federal government gets from those leases. Neither did I, until 2 months ago my job was mapping leases. But I'm not the one who's been beating the "government bad, states' rights good, private sector good, free market good" drum for 150 years

Our oil companies? Care to elaborate on which oil companies Louisiana owns? Yes we like the jobs and we will continue to enjoy them, your point? Are we supposed to dislike jobs or something or are you arguing that somehow justifies us getting fucked over both in royalty sharing and this situation?

WTF does the 2nd half of your post have to do with this discussion? I didn't realize the state of Louisiana had been beating that drum for the last 150 years but I guess I could be wrong. I'll have to call Marry Landrieu and ask her. Vitter is just another corporate boy but besides a few token words in a speech here or there his actions sure as hell don't beat that drum so again, wtf are you talking about?

 

[theeedude]

I am sure private sector will take care of it. I can just see businessmen lining up to put sand barriers in place

 

[Darwin333]

Of which BP will fight in court for years until its settled out of court for a fraction of the cost.

Who would you say has the better ability to finance the costs for that long and carries the biggest stick in which to get the most back?

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah. I see the urgency of the situation, but am also worried about any 'unintended consequences' of taking rushed action.

However, one thing stands out strongly - such contingency plans should have already been studied and thought out. Perhaps the scope of this is unexpected, but surely a leak from one of the thousands of drilling operations in the Gulf is not.

Fern

Did you ever travel through the jungle swinging from tree to tree. If you did you'd know that the human animal is a high energy and joyful calculating machine that functions at peak efficiency only when unburdened by assumptions or plans and is totally present where the next branch will manifest like magic out of the endless bramble.

 

[Zargon]

Thats just what we produce, not what we provide. Although the term "energy" was incorrect on my part, I meant oil/nat gas/petrochemicals. That chart also excludes the offshore production (Federal leases, such as the one the leak is on now) that is serviced by Louisiana and pumped through our pipelines to our refineries. It mentions the LOOP but it doesn't factor in the oil received through it which is basically the vast majority of all oil shipped from far away lands (its the ONLY port in the country capable of handling the Ultra Large Crude Carriers, that gets shut down alone and the country is fucked....hard)

fair enough

we do jack for oil as you can see(beyond having a large refinery in Joleit), but do offload some power due to having about 8 nuclear reactors currently operating.

 

[Nebor]

And I wouldn't doubt for a second that your need to denigrate your own people is very typical of the folk you came from.

I'm not debasing my people (very racist term you used there, btw.) I'm not from Louisiana.

 

[Throckmorton]

Our oil companies? Care to elaborate on which oil companies Louisiana owns? Yes we like the jobs and we will continue to enjoy them, your point? Are we supposed to dislike jobs or something or are you arguing that somehow justifies us getting fucked over both in royalty sharing and this situation?

WTF does the 2nd half of your post have to do with this discussion? I didn't realize the state of Louisiana had been beating that drum for the last 150 years but I guess I could be wrong. I'll have to call Marry Landrieu and ask her. Vitter is just another corporate boy but besides a few token words in a speech here or there his actions sure as hell don't beat that drum so again, wtf are you talking about?

Not Louisiana companies specifically but the whole Gulf. Especially Houston. The same oil companies that lobbied for weaker regulations that increased the risk and allowed this to happen, with the full support of the locals.


Ask these guys what they think of the Federal Government http://www.teapartyoflouisiana.net/


Regardless, Moonbeam is right. We aren't going to let you suffer for lack of government. But it would be nice if you would acknowledge that government is the solution and the free market isn't.

 

[JSt0rm]

Yeah. I see the urgency of the situation, but am also worried about any 'unintended consequences' of taking rushed action.

However, one thing stands out strongly - such contingency plans should have already been studied and thought out. Perhaps the scope of this is unexpected, but surely a leak from one of the thousands of drilling operations in the Gulf is not.

Fern

I agree and have been saying since day 1. Why the fuck didn't they (they being the government and BP/other oil companies) think about worst case scenarios?