IT Dept says Windows NT must go...

[TerryMathews]

I hate to ask the obvious question, but have you tried running your incompatible app using compatability mode in XP?

 

[Smilin]

Your IT department is right. And if they're not it doesn't matter. These guys have to keep the whole company running and having a lack of standards will make their job a nightmare. If you start working WITH them instead of AGAINST them you'll probably find they are willing to put a ton of work and long nights into making your software work for you on the new OS. I'm sure you're not the only one in the company feeling some growing pains from this. Try being a team player.

Besides you probably just need your sign on to say 'power user' along with a 'compatws' security template and you'll be running fine.

 

[Goosemaster]

Your upgrade prayers are answered:



GSX SERVER


EDIT:


Link to ESX/GSX Servers by Vmware

 

[Turczinator]

such as a budget and the labor to convert them to 2000

A: My budget, didn't see this one coming, not full OS upgrade. Labor, they asked if I could do it since I know the applications on the PC's.

have you tried running your incompatible app using compatability mode in XP

A: Yes, along with the IT department and it did not work. System would run for two to four hours and then lock up. Even IT is baffled. Talked with developers and was informed that they don't support XP with no plans to upgrade the software.

If you start working WITH them instead of AGAINST them...

I have a great relationship with them and they are helpful, but to blindly walk into my area and make a blanket statement that all WinNT must go, I think I have a right to fully understand why. I was not getting a satisfactory answer, only unsupported, so I wish to fully understand the situation. This forum has given me anwsers and valid points to do the upgrade, at least to 2K. I wanted details so I can spend money wisely in my area. I am going to have to divert funds from one purchase next year to satisfy this unbudgeted issue and my '04 budget was already cut 68%. If IT would be willing to work with me then I would not be going through this, but on 1 Jan 2004 they pull the plug to my area and thats not fair. IT in general must learn that they also effect the progress and productivity for the company they work for and blanket statements without reason is like talking to my 4 year old with the beeecaaause reply to a question. So between now and the first of the year I'm the one upgrading 27 PC's (IT recommends a full format) to Win2K and then the installion and configuration of the applications to get the test stands operational again. Considering it takes one full day to do one install with applications thats 27 days and considering I have to wait for a test stands to finish their cycles, I'm not getting this done in time. Sucks to be me

Now you see it from a user stand point. IT is very helpful when it's an MS OS and office applications, but when it comes down to scientific and engineering applications that they are not familiar with or the functions they perform then all support is gone. Yes they are willing to help with OS install and configuration, but the applications are on my shoulders.

I like the GSX Server, I'm discussing that one with IT tomorrow.

 

[TypeM]

NT workstation EOLed about July I believe. NT Server is scheduled to EOL Dec 31. 2004. The problem is that it is a security risk. No patches and no hotfixes for a file system (NTFS) that is the basis of the newer technology. It isnt hard to design a worm for 2K/XP and then reengineer it for NT. I believe that is the reason for the recent surge by all corporate IT staff to remove NT as fast as possible. Also, if you have ever been called in at 2AM on a Sat night because of a rouge virus/worm, then you can understand why enterprise admins take such a harsh stand.

-Mack

 

[drag]

That's BS to pull your network from underneath you. MS has let it known for a long time that they are going to drop NT.

IT should of told you long ago that you are going to be losing the NT boxes. You need time to migrate over, time to get the newer OS with the ported programs. You need to test and make sure that it's going to work and get accurate results. You need to test for stability and resolve any issues BEFORE going to production.

I agree with getting rid of NT, that always will be a good thing, however how they are going about it is wrong.

You obviously have other people depending on your results. Get a list of them or something or talk to them, then ask IT if it would be a good idea to hold up all THEIR work too for up to a month.

Get some proof, "it's all about the justification." as one boss once taught me. Get as much information as possible, because as powerfull as IT would like themselves to be, they always have to answer to the bean counters at the end of the day.

Of course be diplomatic about it. It's like your doing them a favor, because when people come yelling at you, then you would have no choice but to explain to them what happened and why everybody is going to get a higher workload for a while. Stuff like that.

Those developers are on crack. They plan on only supporting obsolete hardware and software? I've seen situations were people still had to run DOS apps on a 286 for some industrial printers and crap like that, but this is BS.

What? When they get new customers they plan on making people use 7 year old nt-approved hardware on a buggy obsolete OS? Maybe it's time to look at a new vendor...

 

[SoulAssassin]

Originally posted by: TypeM
NT workstation EOLed about July I believe. NT Server is scheduled to EOL Dec 31. 2004.

Exactly what I was just about to get to, if it's running on NT4 workstation why not put it on NT4 Server and buy yourself another 14 months during which time you can investigate alternative applications, vmware, put pressure on the developers etc. Is this a commercially available app or homegrown? If it's a commercial product you can't be the only one in this situation.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Your upgrade prayers are answered:
GSX SERVER
EDIT:
Link to ESX/GSX Servers by Vmware

Goosemaster, right intention but it doesn't help in this case one bit. He will still be running possibly vulnerable and unsupported OS's, doesn't matter if the underlying hardware is physical or virtual from a network perspective the machine is still there. Now he can use the private NAT feature to quasi-firewall off the box, but then he could do that without GSX server too.

Turczinator, I'm sorry, but your wrong in your presumptions. Your question of " Has there been that many patches and hotfixes for WinNT since SP6a and what kind of vunerabilities would be left open if these PC's were left with WinNT and on the network?" As an example the same exploit that blaster enjoyed exists on NT, it just turns out the worm was (this time) written to only hit 2k and xp. If these are truely control machines take them off the network (or setup a private vlan for them with NO routing to other boxes).

Bill

 

[dpain]

I do have a fond spot in my heart for ole NT..... But alas, a new day is dawn! With athe advent of all these new secuity threats, you really have no choice! Sad to say, but Microsoft has finally put the last dagger in NT. They have been trying to kill it for years now, but because of people like you, they had to finally mandate it! The hold out rebels. Gotta know when to hold em....well you know the rest!

 

[thornc]

Well I tend to agree with the IT type guys here, but being a systems engineer I understand your problem!!

You have a proven and working solution for your task, and someone is asking you to drop it for something you don't know when/if it's going to work. Not a nice prespective!

I don't know how your stuff works, but like others suggested, perhaps you can try to have your IT deparment fix you up a midterm solution. Something like a private LAN, connected to their LAN trough a very secured firewall. Pehaps you can come up with a way to make your computers upload their results by FTP or HTTP trough that firewall to a computer outside it and you can then get your results from there. That way there would only be one open port on the firewall.

The place where I work now, has something like this implemented in place. They have a corporate lan, which is connected by tight firewalls to "work" lans (for the lack of a better word), access to/from those work lans is very restricted and only the absolutely necessary is allowed to pass. The works lans have a incredible mixture of platforms in there... raging from sun/solaris systems, windows/intel to ibm/aix. It works. In fact the XP computers in the corporate lan were hit by Blaster and those on the work lan didn't even felt it.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: drag
That's BS to pull your network from underneath you. MS has let it known for a long time that they are going to drop NT.

IT should of told you long ago that you are going to be losing the NT boxes. You need time to migrate over, time to get the newer OS with the ported programs. You need to test and make sure that it's going to work and get accurate results. You need to test for stability and resolve any issues BEFORE going to production.

I agree with getting rid of NT, that always will be a good thing, however how they are going about it is wrong.

You obviously have other people depending on your results. Get a list of them or something or talk to them, then ask IT if it would be a good idea to hold up all THEIR work too for up to a month.

Get some proof, "it's all about the justification." as one boss once taught me. Get as much information as possible, because as powerfull as IT would like themselves to be, they always have to answer to the bean counters at the end of the day.

Of course be diplomatic about it. It's like your doing them a favor, because when people come yelling at you, then you would have no choice but to explain to them what happened and why everybody is going to get a higher workload for a while. Stuff like that.

Those developers are on crack. They plan on only supporting obsolete hardware and software? I've seen situations were people still had to run DOS apps on a 286 for some industrial printers and crap like that, but this is BS.

What? When they get new customers they plan on making people use 7 year old nt-approved hardware on a buggy obsolete OS? Maybe it's time to look at a new vendor...

Exactly...Well Said!