IT Career, whats your take??

[DaveSimmons]

the one month job is paid $12-$22/hr . and I did ask them what % of trained student mantain the job, and the counselor told me about 75%. As far as the program goes, this bootcamp program started abot 1 and half year ago.

Ask him if he'll put that 75% in writing and specify that it's for people in the bootcamp program. If he hesitates, it will tell you a lot.

People are always posting (and writing their newspaper, etc.) about what the sales guy / recruiter "told" them that turned out to be a lie to close the sale -- if it isn't in writing, it isn't binding and you have zero chance of proving that you were promised it.

The "counselor" is a salesperson, their job is to sell you a service, not to help you.

 

[jinglingxl]

Well part of the problem with companies not even hiring people with experience or even downsizing people experienced in IT could be that the company is paying alot of money on them. Say if a company is paying 70k for an administrator, and there is a newly trained with all the necessary certificate, and giving the prop to new horizon that they do quality training that will give you the edge at work, and he starts for say 35k. Will they keep the 70k guy or hire the 35k guy?
I dont know the answer, but it seems rational that the company may save money on hiring the new guy. I might be wrong though.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: jinglingxl
Well part of the problem with companies not even hiring people with experience or even downsizing people experienced in IT could be that the company is paying alot of money on them. Say if a company is paying 70k for an administrator, and there is a newly trained with all the necessary certificate, and giving the prop to new horizon that they do quality training that will give you the edge at work, and he starts for say 35k. Will they keep the 70k guy or hire the 35k guy?
I dont know the answer, but it seems rational that the company may save money on hiring the new guy. I might be wrong though.

Well you're kind of right in theory. In practice here is how it goes: the guy that used to be making $70k/year is now laid off and looking for work. He has a mortgage and kids and hasn't worked in 4 months. He realizes that he's nearly up sh*t creek and decides to apply at the company you just mentioned. They say "Your experience is good but we aren't willing to pay more than $35k right now. When our sales pipeline fattens we can give you a raise." Answer from guy? "When do I start?".

In my experience, having come from the bottom, somebody making $70k with 5 years experience is probably 5 X as productive as somebody with none making half of that. If I was to downsize an IT department I'd cut off all the inexperienced people first and keep less people on making more money. Based one where I've gone and how I see other people the difference between somebody with no experience and somebody with several years is night and day - easily worth it even if the second person is costing you twice as much to keep employed.

Now if that guy with 35k IS as good as the guy making 70k and can prove it, then naturally it seems the best course of action, but from what I can tell most people fresh out of school don't know much (I know I didn't), and though they are cheap you get what you pay for.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Well, I've talked to a few people in the past year and it seems like they all say usually for entry level it's not too hard to find a job becuase they're plentiful. My dad has a masters in telecommunications and over 20 years of experience and can't get a job though. It seems like all the people around here that can't get jobs aren't entry level engineers. It also seems like almost all the CS related jobs at IBM or at Sun are going to computer engineers. In most cases they can pay the entry level person even less money and they're still going to be able to do the job...

 

[kranky]

Say if a company is paying 70k for an administrator, and there is a newly trained with all the necessary certificate, and giving the prop to new horizon that they do quality training that will give you the edge at work, and he starts for say 35k. Will they keep the 70k guy or hire the 35k guy? I dont know the answer, but it seems rational that the company may save money on hiring the new guy. I might be wrong though.

This is how it would go down where I work. If the admin is doing a decent job, he stays. He's proven he can do the job, he comes to work every day, is available for emergencies, etc. No way would they dump him to pay 35K to someone with a bunch of certs and no experience - in an admin job.

Other companies might do it differently, but they are being short-sighted. If you got hired for 35K and found out the guy who just got fired was making 70K, are you going to be happy? You'll probably work for a year to get some experience and then start looking around.

I have no experience with New Horizons, but that seems like a lot of money for a pile of certs and nothing else except a vague promise of a temp job. It couldn't cost that much more to get a two-year Associate degree from a tech school. No guarantees there either, but at least you have an Associate Degree.

 

[dakata24]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

the one month job is paid $12-$22/hr . and I did ask them what % of trained student mantain the job, and the counselor told me about 75%. As far as the program goes, this bootcamp program started abot 1 and half year ago.

Ask him if he'll put that 75% in writing and specify that it's for people in the bootcamp program. If he hesitates, it will tell you a lot.

People are always posting (and writing their newspaper, etc.) about what the sales guy / recruiter "told" them that turned out to be a lie to close the sale -- if it isn't in writing, it isn't binding and you have zero chance of proving that you were promised it.

The "counselor" is a salesperson, their job is to sell you a service, not to help you.

definately get that in writing.. i was told that when i talked to an "adviser" (sales guy).. and that was fall of 2001... the IT market since then had gotten worse so i find that 75% hard to believe..

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Well, I've talked to a few people in the past year and it seems like they all say usually for entry level it's not too hard to find a job becuase they're plentiful. My dad has a masters in telecommunications and over 20 years of experience and can't get a job though. It seems like all the people around here that can't get jobs aren't entry level engineers. It also seems like almost all the CS related jobs at IBM or at Sun are going to computer engineers. In most cases they can pay the entry level person even less money and they're still going to be able to do the job...

Make sure you're talking about non computer engineers, since I'm telling you brand new computer science grads are having a hell of a time finding work right now.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: jinglingxl
I was recently talking with New Horizons, an established computer training center, to enroll in a bootcamp certification program. Basically a its a 1yr long program to get you certified in A+, Network+, MCSA, CCNA, Security, and MCSE. Along the training, after you finish your CCNA, and MCSA in 4 months and they will place you in a real company for a contract job in the IT field for 1 month paid. If the company satisified with your work after 1 month, then you have a chance of getting hired for full time job.
After MCSA, you will continue to study for MCSE, and 3 security certificate courses for 8 months. All Test, books, lab, included.

It will cost about $11,000 which can be taken out from a loan with 1yr deferrment (dont have to pay after 1yr). Considering their large contacts, and the opportunity to be placed for a job, is this worth it?? Anyone had similar experiences with training like this? Anyone had experiences with New Horizon? I'm very into Network adiministration type of work, and feeling that I might need these trainings to land myself a job. Would this be a sound investment?

(btw, just graduated college with a business degree, didnt find a job yet..it has be hard)

Why not use you business degree?
MBA real school you'll do much better.

 

[Tallgeese]

I actually took all my training (except for Cisco) at New Horizons, mostly in Birmingham and then some in Atlanta.

That was 95-97, and IT at the time was HOT HOT HOT.
In all cases, my training costs were footed by my employers at the time, including lodging, meals, etc.

I completed Novell certs to M(aster)CNE, and later Microsoft certs to MCSE.

By and large I had EXCELLENT instructors...and folks in the classes were already employed in a tech or comm position (lot of Bellsouth employees).So there was a lot of good networking going on...and much expertise to draw upon.

Since the downturn, I daresay that IT training, more than anything, has taken the biggest hit, since the first thing to go when times are tough is training budgets.
With that has been a mass exodus of high-quality instructors.

$11,000 is a CHUNK of change to foot yourself!
I think you'd be better off trying to land an entry-level position and get some experience under your belt.

BTW: I'd consider EVERYTHING the salesman is telling you as outright fabrication.
BTW2: After you learned the OSI Networking Model during this training, you might also learn a popular mnemonic for remembering the names of the 7 layers....

Please
Do
Not
Take
Sales
People's
Advice

 

[StageLeft]

Just to lighten the mood (or not )in here I was reading yesterday in a recently published magazine (some mag sitting around a microsoft office - off topic I wish I worked for MS. Ameesh you suck!) and some guy who runs computerjobs.com or some such site said that last year they had something like 11,500 resumes active and over the same period of time only 650 jobs available. This was in Atlanta.

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
yeah, it sounds like the IT market kind of sucks at the moment.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I've been out of work for four months. Three of those four months was by choice. I spent hours upon hours reviewing my target companies. My first resume of any value was sent out about 3.5 weeks ago. Just sending a resume isn't a sure sign that you'll even get noticed. Here's some key items that work quite well.

1) After you have identified your target company, utilize the following:

A) Gain contact with an individual within the company. Ask for names of people closer to the hiring manager. Keep going until you reach the hiring manager. Once you have, be prepared to really sell yourself. Your resume will be somewhat limited, so you'll have to talk about the experiences where you saved company "x" money - or, improved a process or two that saved "x" hours. See if they can't come up with some form of "hybrid" position for you based on your various skills.

B) Network, network, network. Find out about all of the job networking groups that meet within your area. Attend these events. Prepare your "elevator speech" before going to this event because they'll probably ask you about your experienced and what you're looking for. Have about 3 target companies in mind. If asked, present the names of these companies. More than likely, one or two people will indicate that they know someone within one of the companies on your list. During the networking time, meet with these individuals to gather whatever details and names you can.

While the I.T. market is a bit tight at the moment, there are ways to ensure that you land a position in a timely fashion. I have provided the formula in these steps above. While it's not rocket science, practicing it and participating in the events really hones your skills and makes you a more comfortable person.

Once you have landed into a position, keep on networking. Having a comfortable group that you feel a part of will be of great assistance to you should you ever be out of work in the future.

Finally, once you have landed into your position, consider volunteering for some of these networking functions. Clearly, your experiences of what you've learned in searching for your position will be valuable to another individual (or even several individuals) who are looking for work.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: wje

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
yeah, it sounds like the IT market kind of sucks at the moment.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I've been out of work for four months. Three of those four months was by choice. I spent hours upon hours reviewing my target companies. My first resume of any value was sent out about 3.5 weeks ago. Just sending a resume isn't a sure sign that you'll even get noticed. Here's some key items that work quite well.

1) After you have identified your target company, utilize the following:

A) Gain contact with an individual within the company. Ask for names of people closer to the hiring manager. Keep going until you reach the hiring manager. Once you have, be prepared to really sell yourself. Your resume will be somewhat limited, so you'll have to talk about the experiences where you saved company "x" money - or, improved a process or two that saved "x" hours. See if they can't come up with some form of "hybrid" position for you based on your various skills.

B) Network, network, network. Find out about all of the job networking groups that meet within your area. Attend these events. Prepare your "elevator speech" before going to this event because they'll probably ask you about your experienced and what you're looking for. Have about 3 target companies in mind. If asked, present the names of these companies. More than likely, one or two people will indicate that they know someone within one of the companies on your list. During the networking time, meet with these individuals to gather whatever details and names you can.

While the I.T. market is a bit tight at the moment, there are ways to ensure that you land a position in a timely fashion. I have provided the formula in these steps above. While it's not rocket science, practicing it and participating in the events really hones your skills and makes you a more comfortable person.

Once you have landed into a position, keep on networking. Having a comfortable group that you feel a part of will be of great assistance to you should you ever be out of work in the future.

Finally, once you have landed into your position, consider volunteering for some of these networking functions. Clearly, your experiences of what you've learned in searching for your position will be valuable to another individual (or even several individuals) who are looking for work.

That is the single most important thing, imo. If you're a developer, join the local user groups, participate in community discussion forums, etc.. Most developers do this anyway. If you're a systems guy, do the same thing

We have a pretty decent turnout at our .NET User Group meetings, and head hunters are always there offering jobs. I've acquired a lot of consulting opportunities through word-of-mouth support from other developers at the meetings as well.

If you want to succeed, be a part of the community!

At the absolute worst you may meet someone who will let you crash at their place if you're broke

 

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