Issues with ambient occlusion in several games (I think)

[GEFStryker]

[Edit: My pics from imgur don't want to display using the image button on to toolbar, so I provided the links to each pic in order. Apologies if this is not allowed in advance]

Hi folks, I am having some issues with a newer game (Outlast - can be found on Steam, and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory).

I think ambient occlusion is the phrase I am looking for, not to certain of the technical details behind lighting algorithms in games.

The issue is, when I am standing inside (while looking at a dark area) or looking at a light source, everything appears fairly normal. But when I look at a dark area without standing inside a light source, the game becomes so dark as to be rendered unplayable. I have posted some screenshots below to illustrate.

The screenshots were taken with fraps, and are much darker then they appear on my monitor. Also, there seems to be issues with proper shadows being rendered that do not show in the pictures, as there is pixellation and sudden color changes between varying degrees of shadow, instead of a smooth blend.

Pic #1 shows a looking at a light source, with everything appearing normal.
Pic #2 is taken by turning slightly to the right, looking directly at the truck.
Pic #3 is a gate behind the truck.
Pic #4 is standing under the spotlight from pic #1 to give an overview of the whole scene.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am running a EVGA 770 Classified with 4 gigs of vram. If you need any info, please ask, as I am not sure what other then my card or game setting could be causing this issue.

Thanks!

http://imgur.com/gd2mh4K
http://imgur.com/09jsfn0
http://imgur.com/0wQfA6M
http://imgur.com/cyrW7mu

 

[cmdrdredd]

Have you adjusted the game's brightness?

How do you have your monitor plugged in?

Have you tried the latest beta drivers found here? http://www.geforce.com/drivers/results/65047

Have you tried adjusting your monitor's brightness and/or color controls?

Have you tried setting a color profile in the control panel?

Does this only happen with these games?

 

[Hitman928]

I had an issue like this with a monitor before. Which monitor do you have?

 

[GEFStryker]

Hey cmdrdredd, I will answer your questions in order.

Brightness has been adjusted, to the point where the black areas are visible and the light areas are all but washed out.

Monitor is plugged in via DVI on both ends.

Drivers are consistently updated to beta, and rolled back only if there are issues. Using latest beta drivers from EVGA website. (I think they are the same as the ones available from the geforce website, but I read somewhere a while back that you should download them from the card manufacturers website, as there may be tweaks not found in stock geforce drivers. Dunno if this is true, but have started doing it all the time anyways.)

Color options on monitor have been tweaked to no end, along with software adjustments of brightness and gamma to try and force out a playable expirence, to no avail. I can assure you, this is a software issue involving the card or the game.

I have not. Can you elaborate?

Yes. just these games thus far. Played farcry 3 while awaiting a response, it looks gorgeous. I really love this card.

And to answer hitmans question, I have a LG Flatron w1942tq, specs available here: http://computermonitors.productwiki.com/lg-w1942tq-bf/

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Found the issue maybe. From your link to the monitor info and review. It would seem that the monitor doesn't show very great detail in dark scenes. Perhaps crushing blacks, or lack of contrast.

The Cons: Darker scenes in movies tend to lose details, all just looks black.

Try a different monitor or even a TV via HDMI and see if you get the same issue. I am willing to bet it goes away. If it doesn't you can try setting a color profile in the nvidia control panel. You can make software adjustments to the brightness etc and the driver will override any other software settings.

 

[GEFStryker]

Strange issue, I just went to record a quick video with fraps to show you folks exactly what I was seeing... and the recording is perfect. No light issues at all. WTH? o.o

 

[cmdrdredd]

Strange issue, I just went to record a quick video with fraps to show you folks exactly what I was seeing... and the recording is perfect. No light issues at all. WTH? o.o

Fraps records the image prior to the display output. In other words it isn't software, it is the monitor.

 

[GEFStryker]

Found the issue maybe. From your link to the monitor info and review. It would seem that the monitor doesn't show very great detail in dark scenes. Perhaps crushing blacks, or lack of contrast.

Posted without refreshing. If that was the case, would this not affect all my games? Blacklist is perfect when it comes to shadows and such. It's not so much loss of detail when seeing black scenes, it's like a light switch being flipped. I am aware of the difference between loss of detail and and actual issue, and this is an issue.

Please don't read that as sounding snide or arrogant, it's not. Hard to convey tone on a forum, but what I am seeing is definitely not a monitor issue. It is literally like a light going off with the space of a few pixels. Light, light, light *click* dark. It usually happens when facing an object dead on.

Again, appreciate the quick replies.

 

[GEFStryker]

Fraps records the image prior to the display output. In other words it isn't software, it is the monitor.

But why with only those two games? That's what I am having trouble wrapping my head around.

 

[cmdrdredd]

But why with only those two games? That's what I am having trouble wrapping my head around.

According to the review, dark scenes in movies lose detail. This is exactly what is happening. In games with overly dark scenes, you get loss of detail. Far Cry 3 isn't overly dark, but I bet some of the shadows at night would lose some detail as well. I cannot say if it's crushed blacks or what but it is definitely not a software issue at this point since FRAPs is recording the image correctly.

You could try a different DVI cable but I don't know how much difference that would make. The real test will be to try a different monitor or a TV.

 

[Anarchist420]

I think that nvidia changed the method of ambient occlusion... they're drivers have just been getting worse and worse. Every release starting with the 660Ti has been awful and biased in favor of performance over image quality... they're getting too aggressive with optimizations and taking options away.

They need to make their drivers open source and if they don't then I'll give nvidia competition like they've not seen since 3dfx.

I wish the IP system was abolished so nvidia and AMD would lower prices, increase quality, and/or face serious competition.

Warning issued for thread crapping.
-- stahlhart

 

[cmdrdredd]

I think that nvidia changed the method of ambient occlusion... they're drivers have just been getting worse and worse. Every release starting with the 660Ti has been awful and biased in favor of performance over image quality... they're getting too aggressive with optimizations and taking options away.

They need to make their drivers open source and if they don't then I'll give nvidia competition like they've not seen since 3dfx.

I wish the IP system was abolished so nvidia and AMD would lower prices, increase quality, and/or face serious competition.

You know 3dfx failed and got bought up by Nvidia right? What a great way to go...get yourself bought out cause you can't compete.

It's not the drivers, FRAPS is showing the correct image. The image is being ruined between the DVI port and the LCD panel itself. If it were the drivers, then FRAPS would record the image with no detail as well.

 

[GEFStryker]

The real test will be to try a different monitor or a TV.

Duly noted. I will try that and report back on what happens.

One other quick question. If this is a monitor issue, why would watching a video yield different playback quality then in game? If it was a blacks issue with my display, whether in game or watching a video of that game play should give the same results, no?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Cause the display is not rendering a completely dark scene alone is my guess. Like if you had a shadow off to one side but the rest is relatively light you may not notice, but show the whole screen in a dark scene and you may. Some panels just have poor control over the black levels or poor contrast. Some TVs have this problem as well and some even have problem with whites being overblown.

What you can do is eliminate any other possibilities. For all we know it might be the DVI output on the card itself. We can find out by trying a different display.

 

[GEFStryker]

Cause the display is not rendering a completely dark scene alone is my guess. Like if you had a shadow off to one side but the rest is relatively light you may not notice, but show the whole screen in a dark scene and you may. Some panels just have poor control over the black levels or poor contrast. Some TVs have this problem as well and some even have problem with whites being overblown.

What you can do is eliminate any other possibilities. For all we know it might be the DVI output on the card itself. We can find out by trying a different display.

If I understand that correctly, you mean like watching it in a window with lighter colored windows in the background? If so, not the case, watching it full screen at my native resolution and it looks exactly how I wish it would when I was playing the damn game. :/

Anyways, gonna swap it out for my tv with hdmi, see what happens. Will report back.

 

[Anarchist420]

You know 3dfx failed and got bought up by Nvidia right?

Yes I knew. But the nvidia/AMD duopoly will eventually fail one day and new companies will replace them.

 

[GEFStryker]

Well, s***.

Appears my monitor is the issue. I am stumped. I wish you could see how bad the issue was, it's no minor thing, and only in these two games. Everything else looks brilliant. I admit, the review is accurate, I have always noticed and gotten used to some wash on the blacks, but this is literally night and day issues.

After re-reading your other post, I got what you meant, but even that isn't the issue. I can be looking at a completely uniformly lit wall, and take a step forward, bam, can't see it. Take a step back, there it is. So strange.

Thanks for all the help, I'm gonna go through a DVI cable and a DVI monitor when I can get my hands on one, see if it's a problem with the card or the connectors (bent, broken pin a possibility?).

Something to remember in the future, for sure. I would have gambled my life savings on that being a software issue.

 

[cmdrdredd]

With monitors and even TVs you can have two models from the same manufacturer with very similar specs and vastly different images.

I don't think it would be bent or broken pins but if your card shows the same image on a different display then you could look there.

 

[Hitman928]

Try switching display modes if you can (rgb mode if possible) and see if it goes away with any of the preset display modes. Also, you take a screenshot of your contrast options on your monitor (any option that has to do with contrast). Hopefully by tweaking some setting we can get you a good image.