Issue with Samsung Refrigerator

[Torn Mind]

Back in the old days, defrosts were manually done. Sounds like this appliance is a reversion....

Not surprising, since as a newcomer in a crowded field, Samsung is bound to cut corners.

 

[mindless1]

^ ?? AFAIK, Samsung's been selling refrigerators in the US for over a dozen years and making them for closer to 50.

I suspect the primary problem is trying to make them more energy efficient with shorter defrost cycles and smaller drain openings, though I've had a few other brands over the years where eventually the gunk just builds up in the drain and then it's time to clean it.

I vaguely recall that there is some tablet product you can put in the pan to keep fungus from growing but I'm not sure if that would do anything about the drain tube itself.

 

[Torn Mind]

^ ?? AFAIK, Samsung's been selling refrigerators in the US for over a dozen years and making them for closer to 50.

I suspect the primary problem is trying to make them more energy efficient with shorter defrost cycles and smaller drain openings, though I've had a few other brands over the years where eventually the gunk just builds up in the drain and then it's time to clean it.

I vaguely recall that there is some tablet product you can put in the pan to keep fungus from growing but I'm not sure if that would do anything about the drain tube itself.

I have a used freezer from Sears built in the 50s. Bought from Craigslist because I suspect new owner just didn't want it and the previous owner died or moved. It stills run well today. Killed a relay with an 16 gauge extension cord , put a new one on, got heavy gauge extension cord, and it functions cold as ice. Could it last 100 years? I'd say it is possible, the build quality could be that good.

I doubt any Samsung could beat that quality or even a 90s Kenmore freezer( a Craigslist freebie since my mom and I helped remove it).

 

[mindless1]

^ Of course not, but it has little to do with brand. Appliances made today don't last as long due to addt'l electrics, power saving design, different refrigerant at higher pressure, using less metal, and labor rates high so unless you can DIY it is less cost effective to repair them.

I happen to have a 30+ y/o Kenmore freezer, door is now slightly rusting so I put wax on it to slow that down but otherwise works like a clock.

 

[Torn Mind]

^ Of course not, but it has little to do with brand. Appliances made today don't last as long due to addt'l electrics, power saving design, different refrigerant at higher pressure, using less metal, and labor rates high so unless you can DIY it is less cost effective to repair them.

I happen to have a 30+ y/o Kenmore freezer, door is now slightly rusting so I put wax on it to slow that down but otherwise works like a clock.

Well, like their washing machines, in crowd of already cheap appliances, they cheap out more than others and thus fail in more annoying and possibly financially devastating ways. There's glass, and then there's cheap glass.

 

[Micrornd]

I love Samsung's electronics, nut their appliances, not so much.My son is a BIG fan of their appliances, yet I have had to order parts and repair his Samsung washer, dryer and refrigerator for him.
Small but annoying stuff, like the heating element on the dryer, belt tensioner on the washer, and the evap fan motor on the frig, all just a month or 2 out of warranty.
While they are working though, they work fine and are priced well.

 

[purbeast0]

Well this is fantastic.

Like 2 days ago I started to notice the eggos in the freezer are not hard as usual.

Then yesterday I made nuggets for my son and they were clearly not rock hard as usual.

Milk and stuff is clearly not as cold in the fridge as it should be too.

So something is up yet again with this piece of crap.

This time however, I do not hear the fan hitting condensation built up like previous times. So it may be something else.

When I open the fridge though I do hear something spinning for a little bit and then it stops, almost like it is pitter patting out. But it's definitely much different than the constant hum you would hear with the fan spinning and it hitting the buildup before.

After I work today though I'm ripping off the back on the inside of the fridge part and seeing if there is indeed buildup in there.

I really hope this thing isn't dead. We just got a new washer and dryer and I don't want to have to buy a new fridge now. If I do though, it sure as shit won't be a Samsung.

 

[purbeast0]

So I pulled off the back of the fridge and nothing was frozen at all. No condensation or anything.

I don't see the fan spinning at all though that is on the piece I took off. Like it's not moving at all.

I also don't hear anything in the fridge like no sounds or anything, other than sometime when I open the door it makes a noise like something is trying to start up then it stops.

Here's a video of it. And the noise isn't the fan spinning up a bit then stopping as I've looked at it while that noise happens.

Any ideas?

 

[mindless1]

^ My first guess would be that it's low on refrigerant from a leak and the compressor is cycling on (that's the noise) as it should but then shutting off because a pressure sensor is not sensing correct pressure, or possibly it's just the pressure sensor or the control board failed.

 

[purbeast0]

^ My first guess would be that it's low on refrigerant from a leak and the compressor is cycling on (that's the noise) as it should but then shutting off because a pressure sensor is not sensing correct pressure, or possibly it's just the pressure sensor or the control board failed.

If there was a leak, would there be stuff like leaking under the fridge?

The compressor is down at the bottom of the fridge but it sounds like the sound is coming from behind the middle part where I have taken it off. I could see if the compressor is making that noise.

I'm also trying to run some diagnostics tests mentioned around page 49 here:

http://pdfstream.manualsonline.com/7/79d812e0-fa28-4c60-8dab-3a788ff49cf8.pdf

And nothing is blinking so I guess it's not self reporting. I did run the load condition stuff on there too and got some stuff blinking however I don't understand how to read it or what it means.

EDIT:

Is the pressure sensor the temperature sensor? I was just searching that service guide for pressure sensor and nothing came up.

 

[purbeast0]

Another thing - after a while, the temperatures inside the fridge look like they are going back to normal according to the display, however they clearly aren't going back. It said my freezer was 17 degrees and it clearly isn't, fridge said it was like 48. I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it's back to the numbers that seem real - 44 freezer and 66 fridge.

 

[purbeast0]

I just took the back of the freezer off to check the coils there and no condensation there.

I am running the manual operation mode per page 47 in the manual, and I have it in FF-3 which is supposed to be a mode the compressor runs manually.

I am not hearing any noises or anything. Do compressors have a distinct sound or something? Should I be able to hear it from behind the fridge?

When behind I definitely feel a fan on so there is some sort of cooling fan blowing out the rear of it.

 

[purbeast0]

Okay little more progress.

I took the rear part off where the compressor and evaporator are and the air I felt was the fan blowing right on the compressor. The compressor is room ttemperature to the touch so I'm not sure if that is normal.

I did notice (while still in the manual operator mode) that I started to hear a little rumble/vibration and put my hand on the compressor and it felt like it was vibrating a litle bit. I don't know if it was coming from the compressor or not though or somewhere else.

Is that what it sounds/feels like when the compressor is running?

And that sound in the video up above definitely isn't coming from down where the compressor is. It's coming more from like in the middle of the fridge. I really don't know WTF it could be to be honest.

 

[purbeast0]

And WTF is this thing on the bottom left side of the fridge?

This is where it sounds like that noise is actually coming from but no clue wtf it is.

EDIT:

it's the water tank.

 

[purbeast0]

Starting to think it might be the compressor relay.

In the manual operator mode, when I did hear the compressor turn on for a little bit, it sounded like what I saw in a video. And in the same video, the guy said if the fan is running, that means the compressor should be running. This is the video I'm talking about.

My compressor definitely didn't feel warm at all to the touch even with the fan on. I haven't heard it rumble/vibrate other than that one time an I'm wondering if I just moved my fridge enough to make contact in the relay. I'm going to see if I can get the relay out.

 

[purbeast0]

Okay so I took the compressor relay out and according to this here:

How to Tell If Your Refrigerator Compressor Is Broken?

Image credit: http://www.brewpi.com/brewpi-fridge-conversion-13/ There are many different causes of a refrigerator not being able to function as it should, and a variety of problems that can lead to hundreds of dollars of spoiled, ruined food. Unfortunately, if you don’t pay close attention to...

almcoesales.com

.

It says "Hold the relay in your hand, and give it a bit of a shake. If it rattles, this relay is bad and can be replaced for about $20."

Well it definitely is rattling so I'm going to see if I can order a new one and hopefully that will be the solution to the problem.

 

[mindless1]

The shaken relay test seems questionable to me, normally if a relay is bad it's the coil shorting, or the contacts fouled, and there is no more or less rattling than normal, though if there is more rattling than normal, it does seem like something mechanical in it, perhaps the spring broke but that is "usually" a fairly rare way for a relay to fail.

What I would do is measure for voltage to the compressor when it should be running. If there is none then I'd measure for drive voltage on the relay coil contact on the connector (there are two contacts, one will be live and the other grounding) to be sure the fridge is trying to turn it on (relay need not be installed for this, testing at the connector is all that's needed with a multimeter in the range the relay uses, probably 12V or less).

A different test you could run (for only a moment, not indefinitely) is short together the circuit that the relay is switching, but if the result is the fan is not running, do not let it continue to run in this state so it doesn't have a temperature problem. This would tell you if the compressor is functional to some extent though if it had an internal compression problem or loss of refrigerant it might still run but not get cold enough.

You wouldn't necessarily see a puddle if it was leaking, there's some oil in it but just a small amount that may mostly stay inside while (if) the refrigerant is lost.

I couldn't tell you anything about the test or manual modes, that is going to be model or at least manufacturer specific afaik. The weird part is you reported it seems to show incorrect temperatures until reset. That shouldn't be happening from a relay, compressor, or leak fault.

 

[purbeast0]

What I would do is measure for voltage to the compressor when it should be running. If there is none then I'd measure for drive voltage on the relay coil contact on the connector (there are two contacts, one will be live and the other grounding) to be sure the fridge is trying to turn it on (relay need not be installed for this, testing at the connector is all that's needed with a multimeter in the range the relay uses, probably 12V or less).

Can you elaborate a little on this?

This would be testing the relay itself?

I have it out right now. And when you say 12v like I could just use some AA batteries for this test right, taped end to end to get 12v or so?

But then how exactly would I test that with the relay to test the relay out?

That is what we would be testing here is the relay, right?

I did something like this a while back with one of my arcade games but it was a different type of relay and it was one of those things in the moment I knew, but now I totally forget.

This is the relay.

Well I guess it's actually called a "Relay Protector O/L" versus just a relay.

 

[purbeast0]

Damnit now I'm starting to think it isn't just this part.

Just came across this and it says this style will always have the rattle.

I did an ohm test between the 2 pins on it and it's not the .3 or .4 like he says, it seems to be sticking at .1. So it's not high where he says would mean it's bad.

The continuity test always beeps as well when I run that mode on my multimeter.

 

[mindless1]

Can you elaborate a little on this?

This would be testing the relay itself?

I have it out right now. And when you say 12v like I could just use some AA batteries for this test right, taped end to end to get 12v or so?

You could test the relay itself but what I was referring to was that the connector to the relay, would supply a coil drive voltage to energize the relay, and you'd measure whether the circuit is doing this. If the circuit isn't supplying the needed drive voltage to the relay coil then the relay itself might be good still and the problem occurring before it. EXCEPT see below, this is non-applicable info.

I did something like this a while back with one of my arcade games but it was a different type of relay and it was one of those things in the moment I knew, but now I totally forget.

This is the relay.

Well I guess it's actually called a "Relay Protector O/L" versus just a relay.

That is not a relay, it's a specialized thermal breaker (including current induced thermal break).

Klixon 4TM

http://www.carbonbrush.com/4tm.pdf

I'm not familiar with this specific thermal breaker but yes it is possible that if it rattles, there is something like a bimetallic strip or disc inside that is flexing, then not returning fully to its normal closed circuit position when there isn't excessive current or temperature. It's also possible that it rattles with nothing wrong.

The way to test that would be ohms resistance between the two contacts but if it is just tripping way too early (too low a temp) that may not be apparent until it heats up some.

It is also possible that this thermal breaker is working correctly to cut the circuit power because the compressor is failing. If the compressor does not feel hot, you could measure current through ONE of the two wires to it with a clamp ammeter during the initial moments it's trying to run.

What I would do, since compressors are not self-healing (any damage is already done), is jumper together the two wires that went to that breaker and see if the fridge seems to work properly, being ready to pull the plug on the fridge if anything looks wrong. Naturally the more conservative approach would be don't mess with live mains power and just get a new breaker and see if that fixes it.

 

[purbeast0]

You could test the relay itself but what I was referring to was that the connector to the relay, would supply a coil drive voltage to energize the relay, and you'd measure whether the circuit is doing this. If the circuit isn't supplying the needed drive voltage to the relay coil then the relay itself might be good still and the problem occurring before it. EXCEPT see below, this is non-applicable info.





That is not a relay, it's a specialized thermal breaker (including current induced thermal break).

Klixon 4TM

http://www.carbonbrush.com/4tm.pdf

I'm not familiar with this specific thermal breaker but yes it is possible that if it rattles, there is something like a bimetallic strip or disc inside that is flexing, then not returning fully to its normal closed circuit position when there isn't excessive current or temperature. It's also possible that it rattles with nothing wrong.

The way to test that would be ohms resistance between the two contacts but if it is just tripping way too early (too low a temp) that may not be apparent until it heats up some.

It is also possible that this thermal breaker is working correctly to cut the circuit power because the compressor is failing. If the compressor does not feel hot, you could measure current through ONE of the two wires to it with a clamp ammeter during the initial moments it's trying to run.

What I would do, since compressors are not self-healing (any damage is already done), is jumper together the two wires that went to that breaker and see if the fridge seems to work properly, being ready to pull the plug on the fridge if anything looks wrong. Naturally the more conservative approach would be don't mess with live mains power and just get a new breaker and see if that fixes it.

When you say measure one of the two wires, is there anyway to do that with a multimeter? Just googled a clamp ammeter and I do not have one of those.

So the reading of .1ohm that I am getting between the 2 contacts on that breaker, even though it is less than the .3 and .4 mentioned in the video above, is something I shouldn't look into too much? It's also not the identical breaker to the one in the video so that made me think that the ohms readings would also be a bit different.

In continuity mode on my multimeter too, the entire time I was touching the pins together it was beeping - would this imply either way that it is working fine or not too?

Other than jumping those 2 wires together on the compressor, is there really any other way to test out the compressor?

Also, the fact that I heard it come on once for a bit while testing all of this out - does that mean anything to you about the condition of the compressor or that I could be looking in the completely wrong place?

On the flip side - the fact the fan is running when in the manual operator mode that should be running the compressor - does that mean there IS something wrong at the compressor level? Do you think in this mode even if there was a sensor issue that the compressor would turn on since this is forcing it into the manual mode?

 

[purbeast0]

Local store didn't have that part so I will have to order one if I end up snagging one. But kind of want to try and be sure that is the piece I need if there is some way to verify. If I can somehow verify that is the part I will pay the $20 for one day shipping too.

 

[purbeast0]

So a little progress and more questions.

I jumpered the 2 wires together and turned it back on.

I saw the fan start blowing immediately but no compressor turned on.

Then I put it into manual operation mode where the compressor should be on and the fan was on again but no compressor.

So I took it out of manual operation mode for like 5 minutes and tried it again.

This time the compressor turned on. I could hear it and feel the vibrations. I let it run for like 3 minutes or so then took it out of manual mode.

I put it back into manual mode again like a minute later and it did not work again, just the fan came on.

Is there like a cooldown time for it to turn back on or something? And maybe at the initial power on when plugging it in, it just doesn't turn on the compressor immediately, like it has to wait for it or something? I know in the service manual it says something about it normally (outside of manual operation mode) waits like 7 minutes or something to run the compressor again.

"If manual operation is selected, compressor will run at once without 7 minutes delay in any mode."

I just waited again like 7-10 minutes and put it back into manual mode and it appears to turn the compressor back on. However when I let it sit there for like 10 minutes, it never turned on by itself.

I'm going to try again in a bit with the overload thing hooked back up and not jumped and verify that it does or doesn't come back on in manual mode.

 

[purbeast0]

LOL wtf now I'm even more confused.

I just put the breaker back on and plugged it in and now the compressor is running just fine. I didn't even have to put it in operator mode it just turned on within seconds of plugging it on and was running for like 8 minutes straight while I made lunch.

Could it be something like the moving part in that breaker got stuck and it wouldn't complete the circuit? And me shaking it loosened it? Like is that even a possibility?

I'm not assuming it's completely fixed just yet but I'm going to let it run for a bit. The fridge got 3 degrees cooler while I was up there.

 

[purbeast0]

So went upstairs now and the compressor was off and the freezer was at 57 and fridge at 58. I tried to force it back on and it didn't come on again.

I'm keeping it plugged in to see if maybe the compressor was taking a little break or something. I did touch it and it was a bit warm still. But last time I thought last time I unplugged my fridge it got cooler quicker than this.