Israeli President Shimon Peres warns of the Israeli danger in delying peace talks.

[JEDIYoda]

But were I a delusional Israeli fan clubber with rose rose colored glasses, I would be unable to conceive of anything but a total Israeli win.

Actually there are many of us who wish to see a two state settlement to this whole mess.

But with that said.....
The palestinians do not want a state. They want the whole cake, including the right of return...which will never ever happen.

The we have to deal with Hamas....

The palestinians are their own worse enema....

 

[EagleKeeper]

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So you say, but we are talking about the prediction of Shemon Peres on this thread.

Not only have some of my predictions proven right, and more are likely to become true in the future, but regardless, my predictive ability or lack of it does not in any way drive the future of any mid-east considerations.

One prediction - the fact the Egypt would open the gates. However, it took a long while and were opened/closed multiple times in the process. It was not after you predicted but months later, unrelated to the original events.

• Blockade runners - Nope
• Turkey providing armed escorts - Nope
• Economic embargo by the world - Nope
• Palestinian state by 9/2001 - Not likely
• Palestinians choosing peace over conflict - Nope
• Head guy in Gaza irrelevant- Nope
• Israel crawling to the US - Nope

there may be a few others that I have missed.
You problem is that you do not understand the Middle Eastern mentality, but choose to apply your western values to their concepts.
Its why I have to somewhat shake my head at Israeli fan clubbers, who for some unknown reason feel if they can somehow prove my predictive ability is zero, they can be assured that Israel will retain disputed land forever.

Talk about sticking pins into the wrong Voodoo doll, Israel has to worry about the positions of the quartet, Turkey, and most of all, the stupidity and possible over reaction of Netanyuhu and his nutty settler parties. But honorable mention to the Kadima party who will likely drive the Israeli agenda once the Netanyuhu skate on thin ice coalition falls.

I more regard this whole Israel Palestinian question as a very long chess game now entering the end game. What Netanyuhu did in his speech to the US congress has gotten
Israel stuck in a new rut and a new road. And now Israel will have to give Netanyuhu the ole heave ho, or Israel may, as Peres warns, lose their identity as a Jewish State in the end.

But still in a chess game, its important to note that a major move occurred, and the rest of the world will change as a result. With Israel losing a range of options they had before and now have lost.

As I noted I have deliberately refrained from posting new Israeli threads, but I still feel convinced what Peres said is significant. Even if what Peres said has been said before but now Peres can say it with greater clarity. There will be new significant moves between now and even September, but until they happen they are not worth postings.

Items are bolded.

w/ respect to movement; if so, it will be because the pressure on the Palestinians is finally being able to soak in - they are not going to get their way and need to come to the table with realistic solutions or risk loosing even more.

Israel knows that the world's spokespeople will stand up on their podiums and generate hot air. Politically, those that matter are not going to do anything that will be a disruption to Israel.

You quartet has already spoken. Guidelines have been laid out for the Palestinians - as of yet the Palestinians have not followed up. Until they have dotted every I and crossed every t, Israel has no concerns.

 

[Lemon law]

Actually there are many of us who wish to see a two state settlement to this whole mess.

But with that said.....
The palestinians do not want a state. They want the whole cake, including the right of return...which will never ever happen.

The we have to deal with Hamas....

The palestinians are their own worse enema....

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Oh ya, the Pals are their own worst enemy is a favorite Israeli propaganda line, but right now its not selling very well in the larger world. But rather than deflect the thread JEDIY, maybe it would be better to say something about Peres and his views, as his views command strong agreement inside Israel. Maybe at least 40% now and quite possibly growing to majority status in the near future. Meanwhile Netanyuhu's foreign minister in Lieberman alienates every world leader he talks to. And Netanyuhu is not doing better either.

 

[Freshgeardude]

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Oh ya, the Pals are their own worst enemy is a favorite Israeli propaganda line, but right now its not selling very well in the larger world. But rather than deflect the thread JEDIY, maybe it would be better to say something about Peres and his views, as his views command strong agreement inside Israel. Maybe at least 40% now and quite possibly growing to majority status in the near future. Meanwhile Netanyuhu's foreign minister in Lieberman alienates every world leader he talks to. And Netanyuhu is not doing better either.

So the world sees the Palestinians not even being able to form a unity government.

they cant agree to the quartet rules.


yea, the world truely think its all israels fault


because the palestinians are doing the best they can under the circumstance, right?

 

[Lemon law]

Point granted, Fatah and Hamas are having present troubles finding the one main poo-bah to head the unity government, but the FGD assumption that they will never agree may be only temporary. Abbas may not be able to ram through Fayyad, but finding a comprise candidate may soon end the dilemma. As for the rest of the unity government, they are basically selected and are more apolitical technocrats. Lots of time between now and September, as you may find the straw you are grasping won't float anything.

If I were you FGD, I would be more worried about Israeli divisions. Right now Abbas has far more world cred than Netanyuhu.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The quartet laid down a few items that the Palestinians have to get accomplished before anything will be allowed to move forward.

The Palestinians have yet to complete even one of those tasks.

Is it because they think that they can sob their way around the quartet?

the Palestinians were hoping that Obama would be their savior. That did not happen. Are they going to try and wait for another Presidential election to see what the throw of the dice will be then? The longer they wait; the worse it becomes.

 

[Lemon law]

As this thread veers off in another new tangent, that somehow the Pals must rehabilitate themselves before they can free themselves from Israeli domination. Because Israel always held the moral high ground.

That is a delusion of fools, everyone in the world understands the Pals will never have the military might to be anything than a mere terrorists annoyance to Israel. So as a result when Fatah renounced violence they get no Israeli reward while Israel bitterly complains about the terrorism of Hamas.

Like the American slaves in 1860, everyone understood that they could not free themselves against a system that was morally wrong, which does not explain why, America waited 87 years to finally do the right and moral thing. But when the civil war finally happened, no one was talking about litmus tests for American slaves, or proposing the good darkies be freed and the bad darkies staying slaves.

Its just not how history works, when all progress and desired change to restore justice grinds to a total halt. The Israeli Palestinian question is not the only question that may take outside pressure to finally settle, nor will it be the last. But very often, it takes outside intervention and world pressure to move the process along.

Israeli fan clubbers may think Israel is overwhelmingly popular, but I think its more accurate to say time is working against Israel in terms of retaining control of the disputed lands in Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem.

But again, its just another we will see. But in rejecting the Oslo process, a final settlement Israel gets may involve a much stronger Palestinian right to return.

 

[Infohawk]

Israeli fan clubbers may think Israel is overwhelmingly popular

You have a huge problem with straw man arguments. I don't really think most pro-Israel people think that Israel is overwhelmingly popular. Most of the time they complain that the UN is against Israel.

This goes back to my earlier point: stop talking out your ass. Stop making retarded predictions and stop making bullshit straw man arguments. There is a way to be pro-Palestine and be WAY more credible and reasonable than you are right now.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Point granted, Fatah and Hamas are having present troubles finding the one main poo-bah to head the unity government, but the FGD assumption that they will never agree may be only temporary. Abbas may not be able to ram through Fayyad, but finding a comprise candidate may soon end the dilemma. As for the rest of the unity government, they are basically selected and are more apolitical technocrats. Lots of time between now and September, as you may find the straw you are grasping won't float anything.

If I were you FGD, I would be more worried about Israeli divisions. Right now Abbas has far more world cred than Netanyuhu.

Here is why there is a dilemna in the palestinian government.

Hamas and fatah are like the Left and the Right in our country, except one leader.

that is like asking the Right (hamas) to agree on Nanci Pelosi to be the one and only ruler.

(its a theoretical situation im not comparing the right to hamas)

it just wont happen.

Abbas knows that if he allows hamas into the government, the quartet will point the finger at his government for the problems in the peace accords.

they also will lose the 400 million they get from the US and it WILL collapse the government.


Hamas doesnt want US money, they only want to destroy israel. its clear in their charter and their actions. this is merely a publicity stunt.

Abbas doesnt have shit over Netanyahu because unlike Netanyahu, abbas is illegally in power.



the Palestinians have postponed elections for so long because their government is bullshit.

 

[Lemon law]

Peter Botha of South Africa didn't have to worry about Nelson Mandella either, nor did the British have to worry about Gandhi either, funny thing, its ain't how it turned out. I could give so many more historical examples, but Israel may be vastly overestimating their actual position.

Israel is getting more isolated year by year in this decade, so I again say lets see what happens.

Its also telling that no one has bothered to respond about the issues Peres raised.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Peter Botha of South Africa didn't have to worry about Nelson Mandella either, nor did the British have to worry about Gandhi either, funny thing, its ain't how it turned out. I could give so many more historical examples, but Israel may be vastly overestimating their actual position.

Israel is getting more isolated year by year in this decade, so I again say lets see what happens.

Its also telling that no one has bothered to respond about the issues Peres raised.

everyone responded to the peres issue. you are just a fucking moron.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

At first I thought Israel would be defeated on May 11. When this didn't happen I was distraught but then realized it was a philosophical loss they suffered. The actual date they will be defeated is October 21st

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

At first I thought Israel would be defeated on May 11. When this didn't happen I was distraught but then realized it was a philosophical loss they suffered. The actual date they will be defeated is October 21st

The rest of the world agrees with you and their collective wrath will be visited upon Israel any day now.