Israeli President Shimon Peres warns of the Israeli danger in delying peace talks.

[Lemon law]

Point granted this is only minority opinion, but when it comes from Peres, it has some credibility.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...-on-a-palestinian-israeli-peace-deal-1.368566

But I do like the Peres statement that 9/2011 is only a date. But still the Peres opinion, as greater Israel opinion is added, may do little to influence the final course of history.

Of course what Peres is warning about is that Israel continues to oppose any viable Palestinian State, that Israel may instead find themselves facing what amounts to the South African solution of assimilation of its Palestinians with full voting rights. And in the end process will lose Israel as a Jewish State. And instead get a bilateral State in which Jews are a voting block minority.

In terms of 9/2011 being the date, its hard to see that as the day of decision. On one hand the Palestinian unity government can't agree on the members of the Palestinian unity government, With Abbas insisting on Fayyad, while Hamas say NYET to Fayyad.

In terms of Israel, Netanyuhu climbs higher and higher up Mt. Massada, ignoring the fact that Massada stupitidy cost 500,000 Jewish lives 1800 years ago.

But still I somewhat say, if Israel does not give Bozo Netanyuhu the ole heave ho soon, the world will impose a solution on Israel within the next three years.

 

[JEDIYoda]

But still I somewhat say, if Israel does not give Bozo Netanyuhu the ole heave ho soon, the world will impose a solution on Israel within the next three years--your prediction is truly funny in so many ways....

hahahhaaaaa you finally recieved your new supply of Shrooms......you have to be kidding...
Also you keep backpedaling from your September prediction

 

[Freshgeardude]

Yay! Yet another Israel thread brought to you by Lemon law

 

[Fear No Evil]

Yippie! Another Lemon Head Israeli thread! Can never have enough hate.

 

[Lemon law]

I have tried to resist the temptation to post another such thread, but I still see Israeli fan clubbers are still in full denial.

As I also point out these are the words of Israeli President Shemon Peres, and not mine.

As I also point out one other unpleasant fact, if Israel stone walls too long, Israel will lose any ability to control the peace process.

But point granted, Israeli President Shemon Peres must hate the Jewish people too as the greatest anti-Semite in Jewish history.

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1994/peres-bio.html

 

[Infohawk]

hahahhaaaaa you finally recieved your new supply of Shrooms......you have to be kidding...
Also you keep backpedaling from your September prediction

What was his September position? It wouldn't surprise me if he keeps moving the goalposts.

 

[Lemon law]

What was his September position? It wouldn't surprise me if he keeps moving the goalposts.

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Infohawk, if you want to go back, you will discover I never said a Palestinian State was a slam dunk by 9/2011. But if you want greater clarity, don't ask just me, because the present Israel under Netanyuhu is all over the world is putting itself into a position of growing international isolation.

Why should I tell you need to grow a brain, when Israel with all of its 6 million Jews, thinks it can still defy the will of a 7 billion people world? Who will prove best for an Israel future, Shemon Peres or Netanyuhu? The very question Israeli fan clubbers should be most concerned about.

That is the thread question I ask, because no one thinks me, as Lemon head, drives the future.

 

[EagleKeeper]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Infohawk, if you want to go back, you will discover I never said a Palestinian State was a slam dunk by 9/2011. But if you want greater clarity, don't ask just me, because the present Israel under Netanyuhu is all over the world is putting itself into a position of growing international isolation.

Why should I tell you need to grow a brain, when Israel with all of its 6 million Jews, thinks it can still defy the will of a 7 billion people world?

You were stating that the PAlestinians will get a state come September.

Than later on you started to back off as other facts pointed out that you were again incorrect.

Israel is not against a Palestinian state; the Palestinians are against such a state.

All they have to do is pluck Hamas and acknowledge formally that Israel has a right to exist.

That is what Israel and your quartet has been asking and the Palestinains have refused. They are still dreaming of the pre '48 borders with no security for Israel and the right of return.

The borders can be negotiated; most minor settlements will be given back.

 

[Infohawk]

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Infohawk, if you want to go back, you will discover I never said a Palestinian State was a slam dunk by 9/2011. But if you want greater clarity, don't ask just me, because the present Israel under Netanyuhu is all over the world is putting itself into a position of growing international isolation.

Why should I tell you need to grow a brain, when Israel with all of its 6 million Jews, thinks it can still defy the will of a 7 billion people world?

I think I asked you for a firm prediction and you ignored me. The point is you can't keep crying wolf. Make a firm prediction and stick to it or be quiet and admit Israel might go on for centuries. So, do you want to make a prediction? Doesn't have to be a specific date. But something where you can be called on it if you are wrong. I think you're afraid to be wrong.

And it's not 6 billion vs. Jews, you might as well look at as the world against Muslims. Do you think India, Russia and China are buddies with the Muslim world? Hell no.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I have tried to resist the temptation to post another such thread, but I still see Israeli fan clubbers are still in full denial. -- no you made the prediction about a Palestinian state coming in September -- you are in denial!!

As I also point out these are the words of Israeli President Shemon Peres, and not mine.-- those words were not addressed to the Israeli people or government! Those words were essentially telling the Palestinians that the window of opportunity is closing!

As I also point out one other unpleasant fact, if Israel stone walls too long, Israel will lose any ability to control the peace process. -- nope will never happen....in your dreams. But not in reality!!

But point granted, Israeli President Shemon Peres must hate the Jewish people too as the greatest anti-Semite in Jewish history.-- your opinion but what credibility do yuou have?? None of your predictions ever come true!! So why should ,we lend any credibility to what you have to say??

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/p...peres-bio.html

The problem is a simple one. You think Peres is slamming israel when what Peres is saying is that the Palestinians need to wake up and smell the roses!!

Peres states -- In Sunday's interview with CNN, Peres also said he does not see much significance in the Palestinians' attempt to seek recognition of statehood in the United Nations in September.

"If you go for a declaration, you have a declaration. You won't have a change in the situation. It's not enough to declare, you have to agree," he said.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Below are quotes from multiple threads over the past few months where he is stating/implying that there will be a Palestinians state in 2011.
Hopefully these can refresh his memory.

I am trying to be generous and not actually highlighting his statements within the quotes in red. Becuase they are actaul quotes; one can go back to the original thread for additional contaxt. However, his quotes usually will stand on his own.

Many will recognize his statements; he will attempt to twist them away.

interesting not found. pretty boring IMO

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I agree with SandEagle, interesting not found, but it still ignores anything profound.

Because there may be something noble about the establishment of the Israeli state in 1948, but when that same Israeli state is built upon the Nazi like oppression of the Palestinian people in the process, all that Israeli nobility is lost.

Its now time to demand some Palestinian justice too, so both Israel and a Palestinian people can both win. But when Israel is the greatest obstacle to a Palestinian State, Israel is increasingly skating on thin ice.

Earth to Israel, earth to Israel, your position has taken an international beating in the past decade, but the past decade is nothing comparable to how bad the international Israeli beating has suffered in the past nine months.

And if Israel thinks its bad now, if Israel does not wake up and smell the coffee, Israel will be far worse off in another six months.

To some extent, this caught me flat footed, bur now Israel and Netanyuhu is in a giant panic that the EU, the US, Russia and the UN are ready to unilaterally declare a Palestinian State in as little as two weeks, but certainly by September 2011.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...art-recognition-of-palestinian-state-1.353404

Initially Netanyuhu was planning to send his top diplomatic aides to try to get the EU to change its mind, but when that became basically futile, now Netabyuhu has put all his eggs in the get Russia to save us strategy. Which right now looks very shaky. As for the position of the USA, the link is rather silent.

In related news Netanyuhu is trying to persuade the UN head, Moon, to back Israel's intention of blocking a large 15 ship flotilla heading for Gaza sometimes between May 15 to May 31, 2011. And who knows, its possible that the UN will instead rule Israel's blockade of Gaza is illegal.

Other than that, its somewhat looking like the world pressure on Israel to start making large concession will continue to build, as the world now seemingly refuses to buy the former Israeli excuses and propaganda.

The other reason I assert that 9/2011 is the year for the establishment of a Palestinian State is that the world has never had a major world figure state 9/2011 is a deadline for such a State.

But Obama made that Statement and now Obama can't retract, as the Quartet has taken up the job. Netanyuhu may think he has outsmarted Obama, but all Netanyuhu has done is humiliated his greatest ally.

Aipac and a part of the US congress may be be the only entities on the side of Israel, but the Palestinian press inside and outside of the USA can only grow as Netanyuhu speaks to the US congress.

As Netanyuhu finally has to get off straddling the fence. And worse than that, Netanyuhu greatest problem will come from his own crazed settler parties. But as Netanyuhu speaks to the US congress, establishing Netanyuhu credibility may cost a real Israeli settlement freeze.

Or come 9/2011 with the only USA unilaterally stopping a Palestinian State, the USA and Congress, may find they have incurably alienated the entire world and especially all the Arabs. As the US military occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq turn untenable.

Earth to JediY, the quartet has set a date of 9/2011 to get to a Palestinian State final resolution.

I can understand that you maintain that once again, Israel can defy the world, but as the deadline to 9/2011 ticks down, Israel seeming lacks a plan.

Let us admit the fact, the Israeli Netanyuhu strategy is based on only one desperation brick, that in the face of universal world wide opposition to Israeli apartheid, Netanyuhu, relies on the very Obama he insults to save Israeli government butt. All Obama has to do is abstain in a security council veto, and then Israeli Apartheid will go the same way as South African Apartheid.

As for Abbas, Fatah, and not Hamas, the PA has proved to the world they have the institutions to establish a State. And if Israel refuses to come to the table with a settlement freeze by 9/2011, the Palestinians have already lined up more than the required 128 world wide states. If those 128+ States vote to grant Palestinians Statehood, not even a US veto can stop a Palestinian State.

Meanwhile new flotillas will come at Israel as soon as next month, what happens if the UN rules the Israeli blockade of Gaza is illegal?

Meanwhile Israel only has the Bozo Netanyuhu strategy, don't say no to its crazed settler party minority nuts, and busily pretend Israel as Israel proves it unwilling to do anything but talk and and not grant anything to settle. After a while JediY, Israel talk is cheap and Israeli action has always been missing in action.

Tick tick tick, 9/2011 is fast coming. If the UN decides without an Israeli voice, they are going to get a hell of a lot less.

In my mind, its crunch time for Israel to get back to the peace table.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...ian-state-if-peace-talks-not-renewed-1.356742

And in my mind, it hangs on a matter of faith, does the world believe the Palestinians or the Israeli version for the collapse of the peace talks in the late fall of 2010.

The Palestinian version is that they refuse to play the Israeli talk and settle charade game until a Israeli Settlement freeze is enacted. After all, there is not a nation on earth that recognizes Israeli sovereignty over the lands captured by Israel in the 1967&73 wars.

Where as Israel, the military occupying power, has been settling on these disputed lands for decades as a matter of Israeli policy.

But now all the Quartet members, demand a restart of talks. Who will blink first, Israel or the Palestinians? Last time the Pals blinked first and agreed to resume talks, and soon thereafter Netanyuhu refused to extend the settlement freeze. Which collapsed the talks.

This time who will the Quartet members side with the lack of talks.

The link is somewhat silent on that, but Israel risks not being included in any decisions in drawing the final border of the Palestinian State come 9/2011. From other links the Pals are long on the record, they welcome Israeli inclusions in the talks, but the Israeli talks participation comes at the price of a settlement freeze.

Its now somewhat of an Israeli pissing contest, because Israel is long on record as talking and talking, while giving up nothing, and in the process grabbing more and more.

And if Israel wants to gamble on anyone any longer believing their propaganda line while Israel says one thing and does quite another, come 9/2011 Israel may be odd man out without even a voice in deciding the final borders of a Palestinian State.

Que in all those Israeli fan clubbers who believe in Israeli propaganda, but we are dealing with the Quartet here who will be judge jury and executioner of the final who to blame designation.

As for Netanyuhu, who tries to sit on the fence, its crunch time for him to order that settlement freeze or the Quartet train may soon leave the station. Without a single Israeli aboard.

 

[Anarchist420]

Why should I tell you need to grow a brain, when Israel with all of its 6 million Jews, thinks it can still defy the will of a 7 billion people world? Who will prove best for an Israel future, Shemon Peres or Netanyuhu? The very question Israeli fan clubbers should be most concerned about.

That is the thread question I ask, because no one thinks me, as Lemon head, drives the future.

What a fucking kneeslapper.

 

[Infohawk]

Below are quotes from multiple threads where he is stating/implying that there will be a Palestinians state in 2001.

I think you have a small typo in the date but good job enumerating the lemon lulz (TM).

 

[Nebor]

I like how he extended his timeline on a palestinian state out another 3 years. It's never going to happy, it would be hugely bad for Israel, so why would Israel do it? And "the will of 7 billion people?" Who are you kidding? First off, most of the people in the world probably don't know what or where Israel is. Out of the 2 billion that do, more people don't care or support Israel than oppose it. And very few of those in the nations with the ability to "impose will" would be willing to do so on Israel due to powerful lobbies in their governments.

Keep dreamin'.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I like how he extended his timeline on a palestinian state out another 3 years. It's never going to happy, it would be hugely bad for Israel, so why would Israel do it? And "the will of 7 billion people?" Who are you kidding? First off, most of the people in the world probably don't know what or where Israel is. Out of the 2 billion that do, more people don't care or support Israel than oppose it. And very few of those in the nations with the ability to "impose will" would be willing to do so on Israel due to powerful lobbies in their governments.

Keep dreamin'.

thats why here in the US, AIPAC helped take over for support of Israel.


all other countries either are

A. arab/muslim- auto PA support
B. Liberal, lets embrace everyone- europe
C. Dont care about anyone else, just care for more money- China and russia
E. Dont give a fuck- rest of the world

 

[EagleKeeper]

Below are quotes from multiple threads where he is stating/implying that there will be a Palestinians state in 2001.

I think you have a small typo in the date but good job enumerating the lemon lulz (TM).

Thanks for catching it.

Corrected to 2011.

 

[Macamus Prime]

,... the world will impose a solution on Israel within the next three years.

No it won't; Isreal doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone but Israel.

You keep making the point that someone will put Irsael in it's place. Stop using will and use should. No one will ever make Israel do anything it doesn't want to do.

Personally, I think Israel is building up a shit load of bad karma. I doubt God's people willingly and knowingly murder children. Yes, I know, it's NOT the IDF's fault, it was the Islamic terrorist who put on his uniform made up of living Arab children - yes, we get that. Regardless, there is still innocent blood on Israel's hands. And when it doesn't care that children have died, it won't give a fuck about the rest of the world.

The end of all of this will be slow and LONG. Give it 20 more years and about 3000 more terrorist situations; then, the Palestinians will be totally forced out and off of their land. Israel will never give back the land they took in the 60s. They will never recognize the Palestinian people. And, when they do "finish them off", it will not be Israel's fault, it will be the Palestinian's, for not wanting to cooperate.

 

[Lemon law]

We shall see we shall see, exactly how events play out are difficult to predict, but Israeli pro fan clubbers seem to have themselves convinced that Israel will retain the disputed lands forever.

But we have to remember, Israel has never had a PM paint itself this far into a corner. And as a result, we have, for the first time, a new possible solution of the UN declaring a Palestinian State. In terms of the world not caring, or being apathetic, or siding with Israel, the Pals already have 128 nations ready to vote yes which is a 2/3 majority, and if there is a vote in September this year in the General assembly, Israeli support could drop to as low as 10%.

The point is the issue won't go away, as Peres points out, it will become an even bigger issue until solved. Somewhat the question is how long will Israel continue with Netanyuhu, as he drives Israel into increasing isolation? Lots of events will play out between now and September. And Israel, due to the position of Netanyuhu has far fewer options than ever before because Netanyuhu has been the first Israeli PM to reject an Oslo type negotiated settlement.

As for me, its not my predictive ability of the lack of it, its subsequent events as they play out over time, that is likely to lead to an unknown end.

 

[Infohawk]

We shall see we shall see, exactly how events play out are difficult to predict, but Israeli pro fan clubbers seem to have themselves convinced that Israel will retain the disputed lands forever.

You're deflecting. This is not about pro-Israeli people this is about you making predictions and being wrong about them. Own up to your predictions.

 

[Nebor]

But we have to remember, Israel has never had a PM paint itself this far into a corner.

You can do that sort of thing when you're free to just shoot your way out.

 

[EagleKeeper]

But we have to remember, Israel has never had a PM paint itself this far into a corner.

What corner?

 

[Lemon law]

You're deflecting. This is not about pro-Israeli people this is about you making predictions and being wrong about them. Own up to your predictions.

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So you say, but we are talking about the prediction of Shemon Peres on this thread.

Not only have some of my predictions proven right, and more are likely to become true in the future, but regardless, my predictive ability or lack of it does not in any way drive the future of any mid-east considerations.

Its why I have to somewhat shake my head at Israeli fan clubbers, who for some unknown reason feel if they can somehow prove my predictive ability is zero, they can be assured that Israel will retain disputed land forever.

Talk about sticking pins into the wrong Voodoo doll, Israel has to worry about the positions of the quartet, Turkey, and most of all, the stupidity and possible over reaction of Netanyuhu and his nutty settler parties. But honorable mention to the Kadima party who will likely drive the Israeli agenda once the Netanyuhu skate on thin ice coalition falls.

I more regard this whole Israel Palestinian question as a very long chess game now entering the end game. What Netanyuhu did in his speech to the US congress has gotten
Israel stuck in a new rut and a new road. And now Israel will have to give Netanyuhu the ole heave ho, or Israel may, as Peres warns, lose their identity as a Jewish State in the end.

But still in a chess game, its important to note that a major move occurred, and the rest of the world will change as a result. With Israel losing a range of options they had before and now have lost.

As I noted I have deliberately refrained from posting new Israeli threads, but I still feel convinced what Peres said is significant. Even if what Peres said has been said before but now Peres can say it with greater clarity. There will be new significant moves between now and even September, but until they happen they are not worth postings.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Not only have some of my predictions proven right,

Which ones pray tell.....

 

[Infohawk]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you say, but we are talking about the prediction of Shemon Peres on this thread.

Not only have some of my predictions proven right, and more are likely to become true in the future, but regardless, my predictive ability or lack of it does not in any way drive the future of any mid-east considerations.

Its why I have to somewhat shake my head at Israeli fan clubbers, who for some unknown reason feel if they can somehow prove my predictive ability is zero, they can be assured that Israel will retain disputed land forever.

The real question is why someone should read your posts. You keep crying wolf about Israel going down imminently but you end up being wrong each time. It makes it seem like you are just hoping and not really thinking it through. In other words, you lose credibility. Everyone makes mistakes so it's not like you have to stop posting. But why not temper your posts and stop being so extreme? Why do you insist on making crazy predictions like at the end of this post?

 

[Lemon law]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon law View Post
But we have to remember, Israel has never had a PM paint itself this far into a corner.
What corner? ---asks Eaglekeeper?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For some 20 years the larger world has been invested in a Oslo like process where the hope for Israel and Palestinians to resolve the disputed land questions was through mutual agreed negotiations.

Now Netanyuhu demands that Israel get it all, when its UN doctrine that without a mutually agreed solution, Israel has zero claim to the lands it only administers by military occupation.

Therefore it implies, given lack of any possible agreement, the only way the world will settle the Israeli Palestinian disputes will be through some sort of binding third party Arbitration process. If you connect the dots, its exactly what Shimon Peres is warning about as a possible outcome.

I would call that Israel painting itself into a corner EK, how you choose to define it may be another matter. But still how the larger world views it will be the only thing that matters. A process now ongoing as we speak.

But were I a delusional Israeli fan clubber with rose rose colored glasses, I would be unable to conceive of anything but a total Israeli win.