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israeli navy fires on Gaza aid flotilla

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Lemon law said:
Actually, its the international community that has been stuck on stupid for 62 years. Palestinians retaliate on Israel because Israel stole their land from them 62 years ago, and to date the international community has bought the Israel bullshit, hook line and sinker, that Israel does not fully deserve those attacks. Then Israel complains, Palestinians are attacking us, get real, its something a thief should fully expect.
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should we just shrug our shoulders and accept native american suicide bombers in Times Square because it's something that a thief should expect?
 
Lemon law said:
Actually, its the international community that has been stuck on stupid for 62 years. Palestinians retaliate on Israel because Israel stole their land from them 62 years ago, and to date the international community has bought the Israel bullshit, hook line and sinker, that Israel does not fully deserve those attacks. Then Israel complains, Palestinians are attacking us, get real, its something a thief should fully expect.

Lets call a spade a spade, all this is the logical extension of the international community not acting to restore a balance of justice for all sides at least five decades before.

Why has the international community acted long before? No shortage of wrongs on all sides, that is an undeniable mid-east legacy, but why have all we in the international community waited so long to realize allowing Israel business as usual is a totally bridge to nowhere.

If nothing else, its long past time to throw previous international stinking thinking into the garbage can, and get mid-east problems headed to a more justice for all solutions.

But better late than never, that is the lone bright side in this. The world needed a just Mid-east peace decades ago, and present Israeli policy will only deliver more injustice and more terrorism problems to everyone.
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Since everyone in the world outside Israel and the U.S. despises Israel; since the U.N. has "condemned" Israel 8 billion times, not to mention almost every head of state in the world, what exactly do you want changed in the "international community"? They all hate israel just like you do. What's the matter, not satisfied enough at the level "outrage" in the world against Israel? Is the fact that every single Palestinian death is a major international incident while 5,000 die every month in Darfur unnoticed not enough for you. How many more cups of anti-Israel rage are enough to satisfy you?

- wolf
 
Maybe the biggest delusion in the hole Sammy link from Haritz is contained in, "The Israeli public is being told that the ban on coriander and the like is aimed at "helping Gilad Shalit." The very mention of the captive soldier now languishing in a Hamas prison has prevented any serious discussion of what policy Israel should adopt toward Gaza. "

Frankly I can understand the Israeli concern about Gilad, but what I cannot understand is why the larger world should not be far far more concerned about millions of Palestinians born after 1948 stripped of all their human rights because the stupidity of past failed Arab, Israeli, and Palestinian policy. Get em clue, all that past stupidity has lead everyone, and I mean everyone no where.

Now we are, maybe at long last to a tipping point, are we going to as a larger world going to stay stuck on stupid, or will we as a larger world going to seize the moment and start making progress to solve intractable mid-east peace problems?

Why should we as a larger world think for one mad moment, that doing a tiny bit to help the Palestinians in Gaza will do a damn thing to solve any mid-east problems?
 
senseamp said:
Coriander?
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Coriander in some forms can be quite pungent, and may possibly be used to mask the smell of explosives enough that an explosive sniffing dog may be thrown off scent. Rather unlikely, but in the realm of possibility.

It is heavily used in Arabic cuisine, so maybe the Israelis want to render Gaza Gruel tasteless? :awe:

All's fair in love and war and WARS have been fought over spices!
 
Lemon law said:
Now we are, maybe at long last to a tipping point, are we going to as a larger world going to stay stuck on stupid, or will we as a larger world going to seize the moment and start making progress to solve intractable mid-east peace problems?
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Your idea of solving the mid-east peace problem is very different from my own idea of solving it. Mine involves the defeat of the terrorist group Hamas. Yours involves the defeat of Israel.

How ever shall the two meet?
 
PJABBER said:
Coriander in some forms can be quite pungent, and may possibly be used to mask the smell of explosives enough that an explosive sniffing dog may be thrown off scent. Rather unlikely, but in the realm of possibility.

It is heavily used in Arabic cuisine, so maybe the Israelis want to render Gaza Gruel tasteless? :awe:

All's fair in love and war and WARS have been fought over spices!
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Sometimes a state just has to choose between
1. blockading coriander
and
2. not looking like a petty fool bent on collective punishment.

Pretty clear where Israel's decision is, so far. But it looks like there is now at least some internal debate on this tough question.
 
senseamp said:
From that link:
"The attempt to control Gaza from outside, via its residents' diet and shopping lists, casts a heavy moral stain on Israel and increases its international isolation."

That's what I've been saying all along. You people are dense as fvck. Maybe straight from the Haaretz's mouth you can finally comprehend it.
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The blockade is extremely effective in limiting the military power of Hamas, but its obvious for all that its not a good or viable permanent solution.

Do you agree with the spirit of that article?
 
By the way, being that Shalit is officially held by Hamas, which is the elected ruler in Gaza, it is completely legitimate to use collective punishment in order to release him. It's not like that was the work of some solitary terrorist, that's their party line.

It would be the same if US put a naval blockade on Iran for kidnapping one of its soldiers in Iraq. Would you then complain about the collective punishment?
 
SamurAchzar said:
By the way, being that Shalit is officially held by Hamas, which is the elected ruler in Gaza, it is completely legitimate to use collective punishment in order to release him. It's not like that was the work of some solitary terrorist, that's their party line.
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Is Hamas justified in targeting Israeli civilians to gain release of their people officially held by Israel? Or is it only OK for one side to target civilians?

It would be the same if US put a naval blockade on Iran for kidnapping one of its soldiers in Iraq. Would you then complain about the collective punishment?
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Sure, if it was targeting civilian goods.
 
senseamp said:
Is Hamas justified in targeting Israeli civilians to gain release of their people officially held by Israel? Or is it only OK for one side to target civilians?
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I didn't say that anyone is justified in "targeting civilians". Likewise, Israel is not justified targeting civilians to release Shalit. However a blockade is a legitimate tool under the international law, and can be used to put effective non-lethal pressure. Do you know a more humane way to get Shalit back, short of releasing no less than 1000-odd convicted murderers - some of them Israeli citizens! - out of Israeli prisons?
 
Jaskalas said:
Your idea of solving the mid-east peace problem is very different from my own idea of solving it. Mine involves the defeat of the terrorist group Hamas. Yours involves the defeat of Israel.

How ever shall the two meet?
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Maybe exactly the point Jaskalas, while my Idea does not involve the defeat of Israel and instead involves fairly sharing the land of Israel, we are now discovering, that the Israeli defacto policy of pigging everything goes over like a lead balloon. And why has the international community been so slow in realizing that an Israeli pig all of the mid-east policy
is untenable?
 
SamurAchzar said:
I didn't say that anyone is justified in "targeting civilians". Likewise, Israel is not justified targeting civilians to release Shalit. However a blockade is a legitimate tool under the international law, and can be used to put effective non-lethal pressure. Do you know a more humane way to get Shalit back, short of releasing no less than 1000-odd convicted murderers - some of them Israeli citizens! - out of Israeli prisons?
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Sure, and all I am advocating is that international community put some effective non lethal pressure on Israel to stop targeting civilians. They don't have a blank check to target all Gaza civilians because of one kidnapped soldier.
 
senseamp said:
Sure, and all I am advocating is that international community put some effective non lethal pressure on Israel to stop targeting civilians. They don't have a blank check to target all Gaza civilians because of one kidnapped soldier.
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So I take it that when the Allies bombed Dresden they were "collectively punishing" the German people? 🙄 Who do you think a war is against? Empty buildings? Farm animals?

The quickest, most humane way Hamas can end this is release Shalit. But this situation is welcome for them, they control the paths using the tunnels, and this isolation buys them many naive supporters in the West (that otherwise have very little in common with Hamas, other than the hatred to Israel). They don't give a fuck, or Shalit would have been free by now.
 
SamurAchzar said:
So I take it that when the Allies bombed Dresden they were "collectively punishing" the German people? 🙄 Who do you think a war is against? Empty buildings? Farm animals?

The quickest, most humane way Hamas can end this is release Shalit. But this situation is welcome for them, they control the paths using the tunnels, and this isolation buys them many naive supporters in the West (that otherwise have very little in common with Hamas, other than the hatred to Israel). They don't give a fuck, or Shalit would have been free by now.
Click to expand...

So what does that make Israel's leadership that continues this isolation, stupid or Hamas sympathizers?
 
senseamp said:
Are you saying that retired diplomat from Maine is not a peace activist, but some sinister terrorist? You've been drinking too much of that Israeli cool aid.
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No you are being the idiot...just because a few of the people were actual peace Activist, yet the majority wanted a fight...that doesn`t mean all were peqace Activists!

You treat these people like they wanted to be treated...they tried to get through the legal blockade and lost!!
 
JEDIYoda said:
No you are being the idiot...just because a few of the people were actual peace Activist, yet the majority wanted a fight...that doesn`t mean all were peqace Activists!

You treat these people like they wanted to be treated...they tried to get through the legal blockade and lost!!
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You can post all you want, but you already conceded whatever point you were trying to make by launching a personal attack.
 
SamurAchzar said:
The quickest, most humane way Hamas can end this is release Shalit. But this situation is welcome for them, they control the paths using the tunnels, and this isolation buys them many naive supporters in the West (that otherwise have very little in common with Hamas, other than the hatred to Israel). They don't give a fuck, or Shalit would have been free by now.
Click to expand...

Gilad's dad has himself said recently that the Gaza blockade is a bad idea, and that it should end. The Shalits are clearly self-hating Jews, or anti-semites!
 
On on hand sammy makes a tiny bit of sense in realizing that Israeli policy lead nowhere and then is so absurd as to say, "The quickest, most humane way Hamas can end this is release Shalit."

Has Israel done anything to reward the now non violent Fatah?????????????????????

Nope hope and NOPE, Israel uses any excuse not to give anything back to form a just Palestinian State, and how can we, as an international community not realize that? After getting our noses rubbed in Israeli shit, the Israeli stench is now unmistakable across the entire civilized world.

But yes, lets us now address that other current Israeli deflection, don't look at us, look
at the injustices in Darfur Israel has done nothing to do a damn thing about either. But quite frankly the international community deserves a F-- in Darfur.

But in the grander scheme of things, its still first things first. The USA has quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now we must turn almost 100% of our current attention to our long failed policies in the mid-east, and as soon as we solve the mid-east problems, we will have more time to address Darfar and not before.

But somewhat sad to say pro Israeli fan boys, all those problems are somewhat linked to the international communities too biased pro-Israeli policies, and as soon as a just mid-east policy is achieved, many other systemic problems become much easier to solve.
 
SamurAchzar said:
I didn't say that anyone is justified in "targeting civilians". Likewise, Israel is not justified targeting civilians to release Shalit. However a blockade is a legitimate tool under the international law, and can be used to put effective non-lethal pressure. Do you know a more humane way to get Shalit back, short of releasing no less than 1000-odd convicted murderers - some of them Israeli citizens! - out of Israeli prisons?
Click to expand...

I would like to see the evidence that the 1000-odd Palestinians being held by Israel are all convicted murderers. Also the evidence for the women and children being held.

Then maybe somebody would give a shit about the single Israeli you only seem to care about.
 
Lemon law said:
On on hand sammy makes a tiny bit of sense in realizing that Israeli policy lead nowhere and then is so absurd as to say, "The quickest, most humane way Hamas can end this is release Shalit."

Has Israel done anything to reward the now non violent Fatah?????????????????????

Nope hope and NOPE, Israel uses any excuse not to give anything back to form a just Palestinian State, and how can we, as an international community not realize that? After getting our noses rubbed in Israeli shit, the Israeli stench is now unmistakable across the entire civilized world.

But yes, lets us now address that other current Israeli deflection, don't look at us, look
at the injustices in Darfur Israel has done nothing to do a damn thing about either. But quite frankly the international community deserves a F-- in Darfur.

But in the grander scheme of things, its still first things first. The USA has quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now we must turn almost 100% of our current attention to our long failed policies in the mid-east, and as soon as we solve the mid-east problems, we will have more time to address Darfar and not before.

But somewhat sad to say pro Israeli fan boys, all those problems are somewhat linked to the international communities too biased pro-Israeli policies, and as soon as a just mid-east policy is achieved, many other systemic problems become much easier to solve.
Click to expand...

In other words, eliminate the Jews and the world will be at peace?

I'm not a pro-Israeli fanboy, I'm a pro-common sense fanboy. There is something very wrong with this situation.

Though it is very curious why the destruction of a South Korean ship gets practically no reaction at all, while this situation is such the big topic of discussion as it is.

The Israeli are not moving out of the region, this is not something that will ever happen without great force. Why do you seem to cling to this as the solution?
 
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