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israeli navy fires on Gaza aid flotilla

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Well 3 more missiles were fired into Israel today.

You guys realize blockade/inspection is least invasive action to prevent these Jihadis whose whole charter calls for Israeli destruction? Other options are retaliate in kind - I could just imagine your head exploding with that idea. Or take over area again, dreaded "occupation", where Israeli security apparatus can police for missiles, bombs etc. There are no "good" choices when up against people who want you dead.

So are you saying an embargo banning imports of chocolate and cilantro into Gaza is "the least invasive" action Israel can take? How about an embargo that does not ban imports of chocolate and cilantro? Wouldn't that be less invasive?
 
So are you saying an embargo banning imports of chocolate and cilantro into Gaza is "the least invasive" action Israel can take? How about an embargo that does not ban imports of chocolate and cilantro? Wouldn't that be less invasive?
so you'd be fine with the embargo if they allowed chocolate and spices?
 
so you'd be fine with the embargo if they allowed chocolate and spices?

If it allowed unimpeded trade in ALL civilian goods, and focused ONLY on finding weapons, yes I would be fine with it. Israel does have a legitimate security reason to do so.
As it currently stands, the embargo is designed to kill the economy of Gaza and impose collective punishment on its civilian population. As such, it is indefensible, and Israel bears all responsibility for deaths resulting from its enforcement.
 
This is not a question of hidden weapons, it's a question of Israeli policy. Israel bans importation of goods (cilantro, sage, jam, chocolate, French fries, dried fruit, fabrics, notebooks, empty flowerpots and toys) that are KNOWN to be civilian, as a matter of policy of collective punishment, and it bans EXPORT of Gazan goods as well. The onus is now on them to either keep defending this embargo as it is, good luck with that, or change it to a defensible form where it targets ONLY weapons.

when hamas lobs rockets and mortars at israeli civilians, i hardly feel any sympathy for those who voted hamas into power in the first place.

the reason for the blockade is to send a message.

did the US blockade cuba during the missile crisis of the 60s to actually effect their economy? HELL fucking NO. it was for a message to be sent.

when hamas takes out of their charter to destroy israel, accept israel as a country, and stop all attacks against israel, THEN this blockade will go away, with it its ridiculous limits on certain imports.
 
Well 3 more missiles were fired into Israel today.http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=177148

You guys realize blockade/inspection is least invasive action to prevent these Jihadis whose whole charter calls for Israeli destruction? Other options are retaliate in kind until missiles/rockets stop- I could just imagine your head exploding with that idea. Or take over area again, dreaded "occupation", where Israeli security apparatus can police for missiles, bombs etc. There are no "good" choices when up against people who want you dead.

You, guy, realize that the reason the jihadis are in power is because they control most of the smuggling that brings in essential humanitarian goods which Israel is nonsensically falling over itself to stop from entering Gaza? Hamas is a dual-purpose organization, just like Hezbollah. Both have a militant, and a social arm. The social arm is winning the hearts and minds due to Israel's vindictive, paranoid shenanigans which directly affect the innocent civilian population. The militant wing builds its strength on the success of the social wing with popular support. Hezbollah could not have dreamed for a bigger blessing for their militant aspirations than the 2006 rape of Lebanon--they were the only ones there on the ground in the aftermath and winning broad popular support from the civilian population.

The harder Israel pushes, the easier is gets for the militants--and Israel is too proud (and/or their leadership too fucking daft to recognize this) to put things in perspective. Please don't give me the "Israel needs to defend itself" shit. Israel pushes because it has the drunk-at-the-bar "I'll teach 'em!!!!" mentality that is strategically self-destructive.
 
To you apologists saying that the goods would be delivered to Gaza if only the flotilla went through Israeli port, here is Israeli official in charge saying the exact opposite.

Gofer explained that his job was to oversee the security inspection of the cargo and his team was doing it with the aid of bomb squads, explosive-detecting dogs and x-ray machines. “We are currently liaising with the Palestinian Authority so that they will receive the approved equipment according to the agreed upon procedures,” said Gofer. “The illegal construction materials were removed from the ships and will be held by us awaiting further instructions.”

So Israel strips all civilian cargo it considers "illegal" or not "appropriate" for Gazans to have, because obviously they could have no civilian use for concrete to rebuild their destroyed buildings.
Israel just got called on this perverse embargo. Now the ball is in their court. It can accept international isolation and continue defending the indefensible, or it can change, it's their decision, noone can militarily force them to do anything. But as long as this embargo exists in the shape it exists today, they are simply going to have to deal with having to justify having to violently intercept ships carrying civilian supplies.
 
when hamas lobs rockets and mortars at israeli civilians, i hardly feel any sympathy for those who voted hamas into power in the first place.

the reason for the blockade is to send a message.

did the US blockade cuba during the missile crisis of the 60s to actually effect their economy? HELL fucking NO. it was for a message to be sent.

when hamas takes out of their charter to destroy israel, accept israel as a country, and stop all attacks against israel, THEN this blockade will go away, with it its ridiculous limits on certain imports.

The rest of the world can also send a message. To Israel. Like they sent one to South Africa.
Collective punishment will not be tolerated.
 
I think you have a fair point with criticizing Israel for some of the banned items, but banning construction material that could be used for smuggling tunnels seems reasonable.
 
You, guy, realize that the reason the jihadis are in power is because they control most of the smuggling that brings in essential humanitarian goods which Israel is nonsensically falling over itself to stop from entering Gaza? Hamas is a dual-purpose organization, just like Hezbollah. Both have a militant, and a social arm. The social arm is winning the hearts and minds due to Israel's vindictive, paranoid shenanigans which directly affect the innocent civilian population. The militant wing builds its strength on the success of the social wing with popular support. Hezbollah could not have dreamed for a bigger blessing for their militant aspirations than the 2006 rape of Lebanon--they were the only ones there on the ground in the aftermath and winning broad popular support from the civilian population.

The harder Israel pushes, the easier is gets for the militants--and Israel is too proud (and/or their leadership too fucking daft to recognize this) to put things in perspective. Please don't give me the "Israel needs to defend itself" shit. Israel pushes because it has the drunk-at-the-bar "I'll teach 'em!!!!" mentality that is strategically self-destructive.

another idiot with no clue....rofl.....
israel is damned if it does let the flotilla through and arms and munitions do get delivered and they are damned if they don`t let the flotilla through with humanitarian aid.....

It`s about survivbal plain and simple!
Israel has a right to protect themselves!
 
To you apologists saying that the goods would be delivered to Gaza if only the flotilla went through Israeli port, here is Israeli official in charge saying the exact opposite.



So Israel strips all civilian cargo it considers "illegal" or not "appropriate" for Gazans to have, because obviously they could have no civilian use for concrete to rebuild their destroyed buildings.
Israel just got called on this perverse embargo. Now the ball is in their court. It can accept international isolation and continue defending the indefensible, or it can change, it's their decision, noone can militarily force them to do anything. But as long as this embargo exists in the shape it exists today, they are simply going to have to deal with having to justify having to violently intercept ships carrying civilian supplies.

Guide: Gaza under blockade

By Heather Sharp
BBC News, Jerusalem

The Gaza Strip has been under a heightened Israeli blockade since the militant group Hamas seized control in June 2007. Israel wants to weaken Hamas, end its rockets attacks against Israeli towns and get back captured soldier Gilad Shalit.

Amnesty International has dubbed the blockade "collective punishment" resulting in a "humanitarian crisis"; UN officials have described the situation as "grim", "deteriorating" and a "medieval siege", but Israel says there are no shortages in Gaza, pointing to the aid it allows in.

What gets in and out of Gaza, and what impact has it had?



OVERVIEW: WHAT GETS IN

For much of the three years since Hamas took control of Gaza, its 1.5m people have relied on less than a quarter of the volume of imported supplies they received in December 2005.

In the wake of the Hamas takeover, Israel said it would allow only basic humanitarian supplies into the Strip. It has a list of dual-use items such as steel pipes and fertiliser which it says could be used to manufacture weapons.

These are not allowed in, with the exception of "special humanitarian cases". Other than that, no specific list of what is and is not allowed in has been published, and items gaining entry vary over time.

The UN relief agency for Palestinian refugees Unrwa's list of household items that have been refused entry at various times includes light bulbs, candles, matches, books, musical instruments, crayons, clothing, shoes, mattresses, sheets, blankets, pasta, tea, coffee, chocolate, nuts, shampoo and conditioner.

GOODS ALLOWED INTO GAZA
Canned meat and tuna, but not canned fruit
Mineral water, but not fruit juice
Sesame paste (tahini) but not jam
Tea and coffee but not chocolate

Many other items - ranging from cars to fridges to computers - are generally refused entry.

Building materials such as cement, concrete and wood were nearly always refused entry until early 2010, when some glass, wood, cement and aluminium were allowed in.

During the six month truce between Israel and Hamas, which began in June 2008, and in early 2010, the volume and range of goods increased with trucks of shoes and clothes entering Gaza.

Israel says Hamas has diverted aid in the past, and could appropriate building materials for its own use. Aid agencies say they have stringent monitoring systems in place.


FOOD

Aid agencies operating in Gaza say they have largely been able to continue to transport basic supplies such as flour and cooking oil into the territory.

But the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation says 61% of Gazans are "food insecure".

According to the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, Unrwa, 80% of Gazan households rely on some kind of food aid.

Unrwa provides food aid for 750,000 people, half the population.

Its food distribution has been suspended several times since June 2007 as a result of border closures or fuel shortages.

Israel usually says crossings are closed for security reasons, pointing to occasions when Palestinian militants have attacked the crossings or fired barrages of rockets into Israel.

Unrwa rations provide about two-thirds of dietary needs, and so need to be supplemented by dairy products, meat, fish and fresh fruit and vegetables. Some of these items are grown locally, some allowed in from Israel, and some smuggled in through tunnels under the Egypt-Gaza border.

But with the Palestinian Bureau of Statistics estimating unemployment at 38.6% in early 2010, some Gazans cannot afford the basics, even if they are physically available.

Unrwa says the number of Gazan that it helps who are unable to buy basic items such as soap, stationary and safe drinking water has tripled since 2007.

A UN survey in 2008 found more than half Gaza's households had sold their disposable assets and were relying on credit to buy food, three-quarters of Gazans were buying less food than in the past, and almost all were eating less fresh fruit, vegetables and animal protein to save money.

The Israeli military operation in December and January 2009 disrupted food aid transfer and distribution significantly, as well as causing what the UN FAO estimates at $180m of damage to the agricultural sector.

According to the World Health Organization, one third of children under five and women of childbearing age are anaemic.

FUEL AND POWER

In September 2007, the Israeli government declared the Strip a "hostile entity" in response to continued rocket attacks on southern Israel, and said it would start cutting fuel imports.

At times, petrol and diesel shortages have caused major problems. Donkey carts are a common sight in Gaza. Vehicle fuel enters from Egypt through the tunnels.

According to information complied by Oxfam, no petrol or diesel for vehicles has been allowed in from Israel since November 2008, except for fuel for UN cars and five other shipments in three years.

The amount of cooking gas allowed in has generally fluctuated between about a third and a half of requirements, Oxfam figures show.


ELECTRICITY

Gaza's electricity supply is made up of 144MW from Israel, 17MW from Egypt and the rest from an EU-run power plant in Gaza which can generate up to 80MW.

The power plant's fuel is usually brought in through the main fuel entry point, the Nahal Oz crossing. The plant has shut down completely several times after running out of fuel because the crossing was closed. It was out of fuel for most of the Israeli operation in January 2009, leaving two-thirds of Gazans without power at the height of the crisis.

Since early 2008, the power plant has received enough fuel to operate at only about two-thirds of its capacity - in line with an Israeli Supreme Court ruling which set a minimum amount of fuel that Israel must allow into Gaza.

Figures monitored by international agencies show fuel deliveries dropped even below these minimums at several points in the first half of 2008.

In late 2009, the responsibility for funding the fuel was transferred from the EU to the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority - since then the amount of fuel supplied has declined. In April and May 2010, fuel supply fluctuated, with the plant able to operate at between 20 and 50% of its capacity.

Power cuts remain frequent. Research by Oxfam in April 2010 showed houses across Gaza without power for 35-60 hours a week.


SEWAGE AND WATER

The blockade has taken its toll on Gaza's water and sewage network. Lack of spare parts has made repairs difficult. Intermittent power supplies have made pumps reliant on generators, which in turn have lacked spare parts and fuel.

The WHO says Operation Cast Lead worsened an already bad situation. Before the operation, it says Gazans had only half the water they needed according to international standards, and 80% of water supplied did not meet WHO drinking standards.

At the height of the January fighting, half of Gaza's population had no access to piped water.

Gaza's sewage treatment body estimates that at least 50m litres of raw or poorly-treated sewage is released into the sea daily.

Some of Gaza's sewage is stored in huge lagoons, one of which burst in 2007 causing at least five deaths.


BUSINESSES

Overall, the UN says the blockade has caused the economy "irreversible damage". Unemployment has soared from 30% in 2007 to 40% in 2008, according to the World Bank, though it dropped slightly in early 2010. The UN says that when aid is discounted, 70% of Gazan families live on less than a dollar a day per person.

The closures have devastated the private sector. Before 2007, up to about 750 trucks of furniture, food products, textiles and agricultural produce left Gaza each month, worth half a million US dollars a day.

Under the blockade, the only exports allowed have been a small number of trucks of strawberries and flowers - although the situation improved slightly in early 2010, with 118 trucks leaving between December 2009 to April 2010.

Even production for local needs has come to a virtual standstill because raw materials are usually refused entry

According to Israeli rights organisation Gisha, small containers of margarine are allowed in for household consumption, but not large buckets, which might be used for industrial food manufacturing.

Some industrial premises have resumed limited production using goods brought in from the tunnels.

Before the blockade, 3,900 industrial premises were operating, employing 35,000 people - by June 2008, only 90 were still functioning, employing only 860, according to the Palestinian Trade Center. The situation improved slightly during the truce.

An estimated total of $140m of damage was done to Gaza businesses during the December and January military operation, according to a Palestinian business body, the Palestinian Private Sector Coordinating Council.


AGRICULTURE

Agriculture is also an important employer, but with exports at almost zero, thousands of tonnes of flowers, fruit and vegetables have been destroyed or sold at a loss on the local market.

Other food production has also been affected - for example, rising fishermen's fuel costs pushed up the price of sardines, and one poultry farmer had to slaughter 165,000 chicks because he did not have the fuel for the incubators to keep them alive.

The UN's FAO says $180m of trees, fields, livestock, greenhouses and nurseries were destroyed during operation Cast Lead. The Palestinian Authority estimates 15% of agricultural land was destroyed.

The FAO says the closed borders are a major obstacle to reconstruction, with fertilizer, livestock, seedlings and agricultural equipment in short supply.

Israel says that in 2010 it has allowed potato seeds, eggs for reproduction, bees and fertiliser that could not be used to manufacture explosives into the Strip.


CONSTRUCTION

Restrictions on construction materials, particularly cement, and spare parts for machinery, have had a big impact on projects ranging from water treatment to grave digging. Reconstruction of buildings and infrastructure destroyed in the 2009 Israeli operations in Gaza has been virtually impossible.

The UN says restrictions on cement have made the reconstruction of 12,000 Palestinian homes damaged or destroyed in Israeli military operations "impossible".

It says it has not been able to build schools to house 15,000 new pupils, necessary because of population growth since the blockade began.

A few hundred tonnes of cement entered Gaza in the first half of 2010, but aid organisations say this is a fraction of the need - Gisha says 70,000 tonnes arrived monthly before the blockade.

Even before operation Cast Lead, all factories making construction materials had shut down (13 making tiles, 30 concrete, 145 marble and 250 making bricks), and the building of roads, water and sanitation infrastructure, medical facilities, schools and housing was on hold.

During the truce, some trucks of cement and gravel began to enter Gaza, but the volume was well below the need, and the flow stopped as the truce fell apart.


MEDICAL CARE

The World Health Organization says the blockade has lead to a general "worsening of the health conditions of the population" and "accelerated the degeneration" of the health system.

Israel generally allows medicines into Gaza. The WHO says that shortages of drugs are a problem, with 15-30% of essential drugs out of stock over 2009. But it blames problems in the supply chain, including the rift between Fatah and Hamas.

However it says the blockade is a major factor in the "dire state" of much of Gaza's medical equipment, with delays in approval of machines and spare parts, and engineers denied access to fit them.

The medical system has also struggled with lack of spare parts and, at times, fuel for back-up generators, and lack of building work because of the shortage of materials.

Before Operation Cast Lead, Gaza had only 133 hospital beds per 100,000 population, compared to 583 in Israel, and it lost some of that capacity in the fighting.

Six hospitals suffered damage, including one that had a new building completely destroyed, another lost two whole floors.

Gaza is simply not equipped to treat many severe cases.

According to Israeli figures, 10,544 patients and their companions left the Gaza Strip for medical treatment in Israel in 2009.

But the WHO says that in December 2009, permission for 21% of patients was denied or delayed, and 27 patients in total died during the year while waiting for referrals to Israel.

The Rafah crossing into Egypt has been closed since June 2007, although special medical cases are sporadically allowed to pass through it.

Israel says extensive security screening is necessary, as it says three people with permits to leave for medical reasons have been found to be planning attacks in Israel.

It also says it has offered to facilitate passage through Israel to Jordan for Palestinians it refuses permits to on security grounds.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...st/7545636.stm

omg anti-semite bbc omg 😱😱😱😱
 
I think you have a fair point with criticizing Israel for some of the banned items, but banning construction material that could be used for smuggling tunnels seems reasonable.

Well, food can be used to feed workers constructing those tunnels, and medicine could be used to treat them, so would that justify banning importation of food and medicine and letting Gaza starve and die unnecessarily? You can justify anything to yourself if you stretch your logic far enough. But barring importation of concrete into a place that needs to rebuild from a bombing is a stretch to most reasonable observers, and is not going to cut it.
 
another idiot with no clue....rofl.....
israel is damned if it does let the flotilla through and arms and munitions do get delivered and they are damned if they don`t let the flotilla through with humanitarian aid.....

It`s about survivbal plain and simple!
Israel has a right to protect themselves!

Who are you calling an idiot, old man? I PM'd you trying to get some civil interaction going. Being a polish jew (as you've stated), you could have at least responded to a local brutha... I feel hurt. Next you tell us that you grew up in Israel. Are you being paid to post here? You "know 5 languages" but don't have a fucking clue on how to respond with more than one word. 😕

Let's move onto the shit content of your post: there were no "arms and munitions" aside from some kitchen knives on these boats. I'm sure that if it were not so, we'd get many youtube links with all of the "dangerous arms stockpiles" from our resident Hasbarists by now.

I didn't format this for Babelfish, so I hope it's not a problem for you.....!/...##$@ .........rofl...18%.....@#kdljfklads
 
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To you apologists saying that the goods would be delivered to Gaza if only the flotilla went through Israeli port, here is Israeli official in charge saying the exact opposite.



So Israel strips all civilian cargo it considers "illegal" or not "appropriate" for Gazans to have, because obviously they could have no civilian use for concrete to rebuild their destroyed buildings.
Israel just got called on this perverse embargo. Now the ball is in their court. It can accept international isolation and continue defending the indefensible, or it can change, it's their decision, noone can militarily force them to do anything. But as long as this embargo exists in the shape it exists today, they are simply going to have to deal with having to justify having to violently intercept ships carrying civilian supplies.


that was already known. Israel would allow what it allowed in. nothing more. why do you think simply because some activists on a boat come, that all of a sudden israel will cease a blockade implemented for years already.


I'll wait till next time they try and come. let them actually come in israeli water and israel will do whatever it wants with it legally under international law without even setting foot on the ship.


Trust me, no international isolation will come. simply people speaking harshy and in a week or 2 people will forget about this.

no company seriously invested in israel will leave. the arabs will keep hating. other countries will do nothing.
 
that was already known. Israel would allow what it allowed in. nothing more. why do you think simply because some activists on a boat come, that all of a sudden israel will cease a blockade implemented for years already.


I'll wait till next time they try and come. let them actually come in israeli water and israel will do whatever it wants with it legally under international law without even setting foot on the ship.


Trust me, no international isolation will come. simply people speaking harshy and in a week or 2 people will forget about this.

no company seriously invested in israel will leave. the arabs will keep hating. other countries will do nothing.

Keep doing same thing and expect a different result? Sounds like a solid foreign policy 😀
 
that was already known. Israel would allow what it allowed in. nothing more. why do you think simply because some activists on a boat come, that all of a sudden israel will cease a blockade implemented for years already.


I'll wait till next time they try and come. let them actually come in israeli water and israel will do whatever it wants with it legally under international law without even setting foot on the ship.


Trust me, no international isolation will come. simply people speaking harshy and in a week or 2 people will forget about this.

no company seriously invested in israel will leave. the arabs will keep hating. other countries will do nothing.

Oh... HA HA HA.

If you keep up with your HASBARA effort through the week, "Fresh Gear Dude," you might just get your fairy wings!
 
Seems to me if "unarmed civilians" are attacking soldiers they deserve to catch a few rounds in the chest.

Funny thing, the American police forces utilize the same tactics. If they are attacked expect to get shot.

What the hell is it with unarmed people deciding to go Rambo against guys with guns? Whats worse, the panty wearing fufu's that then turn around and damn the guys with the guns for defending themselves. Some things I'll never understand.
 
when hamas lobs rockets and mortars at israeli civilians, i hardly feel any sympathy for those who voted hamas into power in the first place.

the reason for the blockade is to send a message.

did the US blockade cuba during the missile crisis of the 60s to actually effect their economy? HELL fucking NO. it was for a message to be sent.

when hamas takes out of their charter to destroy israel, accept israel as a country, and stop all attacks against israel, THEN this blockade will go away, with it its ridiculous limits on certain imports.

If only you guys knew what you were talking about. It isn't Hamas that is setting off these rockets. They are trying to prevent the rockets from being fired. It is more militant groups that are firing the rockets.
 
Is there any unbiased documentation on this matter that shows how Palestinians voted on their land to become partially another Israel? what really happened? I am not denying any Jewish historic event that happened, I watched several documentaries on pretty much 1939-1945. Every time I look closer I feel what I am reading or heard about this matter is one sided.
I guess I lived in both side of the isle for extended periods of time, for 17 years growing up Palestine was the always considered victims when it comes to this matte. The last 10 years I live here in the US, and Israel is always considered defending itself and US supports them establishing a strong state and dedicated army in order to achieve peace, democracy and freedom...something along these lines anyways.
Now I am really curious and would love to spend sometime researching this history, I want to know and have my own opinions based on my findings, NOT CNN...lol
 
I guess I lived in both side of the isle for extended periods of time, for 17 years growing up Palestine was the always considered victims when it comes to this matte. The last 10 years I live here in the US, and Israel is always considered defending itself and US supports them establishing a strong state and dedicated army in order to achieve peace, democracy and freedom...something along these lines anyways.
Now I am really curious and would love to spend sometime researching this history, I want to know and have my own opinions based on my findings, NOT CNN...lol

Good... You get to start in the middle.
 
Seems to me if "unarmed civilians" are attacking soldiers they deserve to catch a few rounds in the chest.

Funny thing, the American police forces utilize the same tactics. If they are attacked expect to get shot.

What the hell is it with unarmed people deciding to go Rambo against guys with guns? Whats worse, the panty wearing fufu's that then turn around and damn the guys with the guns for defending themselves. Some things I'll never understand.

I think if I was on a boat and all of the sudden I see super bright lights and guys coming down with masks and paintball guns I will start throwing some things. The people on the ship are friends and some our even family they will try to protect each other of course...pretty clear how it can get out of hands to me.
Just like in the movies man...
 
I think if I was on a boat and all of the sudden I see super bright lights and guys coming down with masks and paintball guns I will start throwing some things. The people on the ship are friends and some our even family they will try to protect each other of course...pretty clear how it can get out of hands to me.
Just like in the movies man...

Wait, you really think that if you saw armed men rappelling out of a helicopter that you'd think it a good idea to throw shit at them? Really??
 
Seems to me if "unarmed civilians" are attacking soldiers they deserve to catch a few rounds in the chest.

Seems that if soldiers attack an unarmed ship in international waters at night they could expect people to defend themselves.

Funny thing, the American police forces utilize the same tactics. If they are attacked expect to get shot.

The US police force does not attack people outside the US.

What the hell is it with unarmed people deciding to go Rambo against guys with guns? Whats worse, the panty wearing fufu's that then turn around and damn the guys with the guns for defending themselves. Some things I'll never understand.

Panty wearing Rambo's? The guys with the guns were attacking the ship. The passengers defended themselves.
 
Good... You get to start in the middle.

I think my grandpa once told me there was a letter from a Palestinian leader at the time asking for help from Britain, and somehow they gave the land to the Jewish communities in Palestine... Now how do I verify this, where is the letter... my grandpa says a lot of shit some of it is true and some is virtual memory he has ...lol
 
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